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KXNG lack of sync ---

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rbrucecarter5

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For many years, I have wondered if the synchronization between HD audio and analog audio was all that necessary. Certainly, it couldn't be worse than complete dropouts, could it? I have an answer to my question! The HD and analog on KXNG are about a second apart, and I can tell you it is VERY annoying. So much so I have gone back to DX'ing 99.5 and KSBJ HD-2. If they can't implement HD correctly, I sure wish they had just left it off of 91.7. HD has never been a good idea on 91.7 due to close by 91.5's and 91.9's - they beat up the side bands and keep HD from working on the frequency - even when there is no skip. As usual, I have the bad luck of being somewhere that the HD cuts in and out - making music unlistenable due to the lack of sync. I sure hope somebody on this board is connected with KSBJ and maybe they can get this fixed, and at least shut off HD until it is!

I am borrowing my wife's car without HD - because the analog is fine. I am looking for a schematic on my car radio to find the "force analog only" option. The average NGEN listener stuck in a car with unsynchronized HD and analog probably isn't motivated to hack their car radio to force analog. Especially if they listen to HD-2 on other stations.
 
Dang...

...I just knew the tangent was a comin', and confirmed the analog/digital lag for you anyhow.

Edit to add: KSBJ is aware of your concern, Bruce.

You know, it probably has something to do with the sacrilege that aired on 91-7 last week. You know how that goes. Let's look at the historical aspect for a second here, KLUE Longview burned Beatles albums in the late 60's, and God responded with a lightning bolt to the tower the very next day. KXNG spins Vanilla Ice in 2016, and now God has cast audio separation between the analog and digital on its debut week. Not a good sign for 91-7; 1280 KLUE in Longview has been dead and gone for nearly 25 years now. Some of the locals even whisper in hushed tones, from time to time, that the lightning bolt was the beginning of the end for the longstanding Top 40.

He's apparently a vengeful radio listener that we both serve, Bruce.
 
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purpledevil said:
Dang...

...I just knew the tangent was a comin', and confirmed the analog/digital lag for you anyhow.

Edit to add: KSBJ is aware of your concern, Bruce.

You know, it probably has something to do with the sacrilege that aired on 91-7 last week. You know how that goes. Let's look at the historical aspect for a second here, KLUE Longview burned Beatles albums in the late 60's, and God responded with a lightning bolt to the tower the very next day. KXNG spins Vanilla Ice in 2016, and now God has cast audio separation between the analog and digital on its debut week. Not a good sign for 91-7; 1280 KLUE in Longview has been dead and gone for nearly 25 years now. Some of the locals even whisper in hushed tones, from time to time, that the lightning bolt was the beginning of the end for the longstanding Top 40.

He's apparently a vengeful radio listener that we both serve, Bruce.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Needed a good laugh!
 
Night Hawk said:
Lightning from the Almighty Infinite who doesn't like liars with paganism in their music, ya know?
Click to expand...

I had assumed that people with opposition to Christian rock music had died out a couple of decades ago ----
 
I am curious as to how the delays are synchronized. A potentiometer adjustment? Software delay? Group delay filter? It seems like it would be really simple for somebody to sit in front of whatever it is with an HD radio and an analog radio and tweak until they are synchronized.

I notice that there is a substantial delay now between KXNG and KSBJ HD-2. It does make it easy to go back and re-hear a song ruined by the unsynchronization.
 
There is usually a hardware solution most stations implement. I have no idea how it actually works, but I imagine it listens the incoming audio, compares it to the to the HD and analog output, and delays the analog accordingly. I think some earlier versions of the delays were a simple audio delay tool that was fixed to a set time, I've never worked a facility with HD so I'm not really sure.
 
LibertyNT said:
There is usually a hardware solution most stations implement. I have no idea how it actually works, but I imagine it listens the incoming audio, compares it to the to the HD and analog output, and delays the analog accordingly. I think some earlier versions of the delays were a simple audio delay tool that was fixed to a set time, I've never worked a facility with HD so I'm not really sure.
Click to expand...

Its got to be really simple to do. I can design variable group delay filters in my sleep ---
 
The stations use a digital delay. It's generally built into the processing for the analog side.
A group delay filter isn't good for that much (several seconds) delay.
 
I notice that NGEN now has billboards up promoting the new 91.7 signal. Key slogan is "Change Your Tune."

Also, memo to NGEN Radio: Your canned TOH ID gives the wrong frequency for K258BZ. Announcer says 91.5 when it should be 99.5.

TOH ID gives KXNG, KYBJ, KZBJ, K258BZ, and KSBJ HD-2. No mention of the other NGEN outlets, at least when I've listened.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
I am curious as to how the delays are synchronized. A potentiometer adjustment? Software delay? Group delay filter? It seems like it would be really simple for somebody to sit in front of whatever it is with an HD radio and an analog radio and tweak until they are synchronized.

I notice that there is a substantial delay now between KXNG and KSBJ HD-2. It does make it easy to go back and re-hear a song ruined by the unsynchronization.
Click to expand...

HD is hard to keep in sync manually, Invonics broadcast make a automatic HD sync unit, the "Justin 808" that maintains time alignment between analog FM and HD1 channels to 23 microseconds, it is 100% automatic, $2495. a drop in the bucket for HD broadcasters after all the money they have spent on HD systems, At the TAB I spoke with a engineer at a HD station who said this was a GREAT unit, keeping the HD in sync manually was driving Him nuts and he couldn't keep up. But engineers in General have a hard sell to management, any time they want to spend money for station equipment, no matter what the benefit. with the possible exception of being off the air.
 
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rbrucecarter5 said:
For many years, I have wondered if the synchronization between HD audio and analog audio was all that necessary. Certainly, it couldn't be worse than complete dropouts, could it? I have an answer to my question! The HD and analog on KXNG are about a second apart, and I can tell you it is VERY annoying. So much so I have gone back to DX'ing 99.5 and KSBJ HD-2. If they can't implement HD correctly, I sure wish they had just left it off of 91.7. HD has never been a good idea on 91.7 due to close by 91.5's and 91.9's - they beat up the side bands and keep HD from working on the frequency - even when there is no skip. As usual, I have the bad luck of being somewhere that the HD cuts in and out - making music unlistenable due to the lack of sync. I sure hope somebody on this board is connected with KSBJ and maybe they can get this fixed, and at least shut off HD until it is!

I am borrowing my wife's car without HD - because the analog is fine. I am looking for a schematic on my car radio to find the "force analog only" option. The average NGEN listener stuck in a car with unsynchronized HD and analog probably isn't motivated to hack their car radio to force analog. Especially if they listen to HD-2 on other stations.
Click to expand...

My car has a option to force analog only. I keep the HD on though.
 
JoeFM said:
Amen! Praise The Lord! Now, it ought to be getting close to Share-A-Thon time. They gotta raise a L-O-T of money to make that first payment on a 10 million dollar note!

Ain't gettin' none o' mine!

1297374366389_ORIGINAL.jpg
Click to expand...

Now they can play "Make A Monument To Our Love" without annoying drop / repeat.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
Hey its a lot more fun to listen to than anything in a stinkin' foreign language -----
Click to expand...

Really, Bruce? Do you truly want to say that other languages are "stinkin'"?

That remark is bigoted and racist on so many levels I can not imagine it having been said in public.
 
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