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AM Frequency of the Week: 800

cyberdad

cyberdad

Onward and upward this week as our journey continues with a stop at 800 on the AM dial. What are you hearing when you stop there?

Here in the Chicago area, 800 has tradtionally been a "box of chocolates" frequency. You never know what you're going to get.

Daytime, here in the far northwest suburbs, the channel is usually blank....save for iboc from WBBM. On rare occasions, with WBBM nulled, I can sometimes hear either CKLW or KXIC. This is the exception, not the rule. And it usually happens in winter. Presumably due to daytime skywave.

At night, for most of my experience, it would either be CKLW, PJB, or XEROK. Usually one of those, or nothing. Generally speaking one would be on top with minimal mixing. Or if they were fighting it out, you could null one of them and another one (or two) would ride in. Lately, however, it's been more of a mess. CKLW is still the most likely to surface, but not as frequently as it used to.
 
Before 1941, CKLW was on 1030 with 5000 watts nondirectional. From 1941 to 1947, CKLW operated on 800 kHz with 5000 watts nondirectional. In 1947, both the Day and Night power were increased to 50000 watts directional, with large arcs of the pattern around the 5000 watt equivalent level, more at Night than during the Day. The 5 tower arrangement and pattern looks like a Carl Smith design. It is a parallelogram with a fifth tower in the center, which allows the huge difference in the patterns.

I usually hear CKLW, but I have heard PJB frequently and XEROK occasionally at Night.
 
I'll give you my current info for 800 and elaborate a little bit. After all, I did grow up with The Big 8, CKLW.
In East Tennessee, by day it's WDEH, Sweetwater TN and at night, mostly a graveyard-frequency sounding mess (yes I know, 800 is not a "local" channel like 1240 but you get my point). If there's some aurora, PJB may come through. I have heard CKLW here, mostly around sunset and after sunrise. I've also had WVHU, Huntington WV around here.

Growing up in West Central Ohio, we had a very strong signal from CKLW in the daytime. My first exposure to the station was them blasting out of the speakers at our local park and pool. We were around 150 miles away from Detroit and probably by air around the same from Harrow, Ontario. Sunset came and the pattern change the signal got weaker and PJB, Trans World Radio mostly overtook it. (The null is toward XEROK. PJB is essentially a pirate). At scout camp in Defiance, Ohio, we had better 24 hour reception as it was closer. We would vacation as a family in Fremont, Michigan (50 miles or so north of Grand Rapids) and though we had no daytime signal, The Big 8 blasted in at night, which was the opposite of my situation at home. I got to hear the night jocks while I was at our vacation cottage.
The night pattern changed slightly sometime as I recall around 2000, instead of sagging southeast it went more straight east. CKLW did a Big 8 Reunion one October night in 2002. I checked to see if I could hear any of it, but all I could make out was the song "Scorpio" by Dennis Coffey cutting through the graveyard mess. Fortunately the show appeared online and I believe is still there.
 
In the near north Chicago suburbs during the day if I hear anything it's a weak CKLW. Years ago I could often hear CKLW during the day and it was groundwave as I heard it all seasons.
At night it used to be CKLW, XEROK, or PJB. Today it's mostly a weak CKLW in a mess.
 
People keep talking about a CKLW licensed pattern change, but going back to around 1997, there is no entry in the Region 2 database that reflects a licensed pattern change. Since international station entries in the database do not usually use augmented patterns, if the pattern was brought in to Standard Pattern by detuning reradiating objects, it might have had the effect you describe. rfry and I are kind of skeptical of the old coverage map shown in the trade publications, since the radiation and contours toward Western Michigan seemed almost impossible considering the nondirectional WJR contours. But most people agree that the signal from CKLW to the NW used to be better, whatever the reason. We both think that they may have been measuring skywave to obtain those contours. What most people don't realize is that the high angle radiation from the array may differ greatly from the horizontal radiation. It may be much higher with an array like CKLW has. The null toward XEROK only had to be deep in the horizontal, since until around 1980, no AM station in the Lower 48 states of the US was allowed Night operation on 800. For a few years in the late 1970s, I had access to an RL with a short vertical antenna and a preamp, about 30 miles from Fremont, MI. I could get many groundwave stations with the setup, including CKLW, whereas a typical AM radio only received WBRN. At the time, WMAQ was the second strongest groundwave, in the 200 uV/m range as I recall. WMAQ would quickly increase as you drove West toward Lake Michigan. I could get WIND, WGN, WBBM, WAIT, WLS, WCFL, and WJJD very well in the Daytime.
 
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Usually a whole lot of nothing both day and night here in Reynoldsburg, Ohio.
If CKLW gets here day or night, it is on the last legs of its last legs. That is purely a result of its directional pattern.
When I lived in Toledo for college, CKLW dominated the frequency, of course. Taking into account that it's pretty strong there daytime and easily heard with just a bit of underlying interference at night despite the null, I'd call it the third-best AM signal there behind WJR and WSPD (which as far as I'm concerned are 1A and 1B).
Back here in Columbus, no signal is strong enough to break through at night. I think I heard XEROK well over 20 years ago but I could be mistaken. I have never heard PJB.
 
What I remember from then in Fremont was a barely detectable daytime signal from CKLW, not enough to listen to but enough to identify. I remember a strong night signal, and I assume it was largely skywave. I don't remember hearing a sudden increase at what would have been their pattern change time. Amazingly enough, my parents had CKLW on in the car during some of the trip into Michigan, and I can even remember us losing them, but I couldn't tell you exactly where. I had only a standard radio, nothing specialized. I don't remember what WJR's signal was like there. At home in Ohio, it was a little weaker than CKLW and the signal strength equalized around Lima.
Schroedingers Cat said:
People keep talking about a CKLW licensed pattern change, but going back to around 1997, there is no entry in the Region 2 database that reflects a licensed pattern change. Since international station entries in the database do not usually use augmented patterns, if the pattern was brought in to Standard Pattern by detuning reradiating objects, it might have had the effect you describe. rfry and I are kind of skeptical of the old coverage map shown in the trade publications, since the radiation and contours toward Western Michigan seemed almost impossible considering the nondirectional WJR contours. But most people agree that the signal from CKLW to the NW used to be better, whatever the reason. We both think that they may have been measuring skywave to obtain those contours. What most people don't realize is that the high angle radiation from the array may differ greatly from the horizontal radiation. It may be much higher with an array like CKLW has. The null toward XEROK only had to be deep in the horizontal, since until around 1980, no AM station in the Lower 48 states of the US was allowed Night operation on 800. For a few years in the late 1970s, I had access to an RL with a short vertical antenna and a preamp, about 30 miles from Fremont, MI. I could get many groundwave stations with the setup, including CKLW, whereas a typical AM radio only received WBRN. At the time, WMAQ was the second strongest groundwave, in the 200 uV/m range as I recall. WMAQ would quickly increase as you drove West toward Lake Michigan. I could get WIND, WGN, WBBM, WAIT, WLS, WCFL, and WJJD very well in the Daytime.
Click to expand...
 
The day signal just skirts Columbus. I've been most of where the daytime pattern goes in Ohio, and their published pattern didn't seem that far off. It's weaker in Canton than Akron and Cleveland and trails off just north of Dayton. No PJB even back in the day? I had them in Dearborn MI with CKLW nulled.

schmave said:
Usually a whole lot of nothing both day and night here in Reynoldsburg, Ohio.
If CKLW gets here day or night, it is on the last legs of its last legs. That is purely a result of its directional pattern.
When I lived in Toledo for college, CKLW dominated the frequency, of course. Taking into account that it's pretty strong there daytime and easily heard with just a bit of underlying interference at night despite the null, I'd call it the third-best AM signal there behind WJR and WSPD (which as far as I'm concerned are 1A and 1B).
Back here in Columbus, no signal is strong enough to break through at night. I think I heard XEROK well over 20 years ago but I could be mistaken. I have never heard PJB.
Click to expand...
 
I don't think I ever caught PJB. 800 was never one of those frequencies that was destination listening for me, basically because I never knew it should be if that makes sense. When I was DXing in the 90s (I'm 38 so I was a pre-teen to teenager in those days), more often than not I went straight for the Chicago blowtorches, WSB, KMOX, WOWO or other regional targets I was actively trying to hear and occasionally would stop between those channels. I thought I caught a Spanish-language station near our local AM 820 (then WOSU) one night in the early 90s, and that is the only reason I think it might have been XEROK.
I had never heard of CKLW until 1997, and by then I lived in Toledo. My scan stopped on 800 and there was sports talk so I listened. Only at the first commercial break did I realize I was listening to a Canadian station. Within a few months I'd read through all the history and learned much more about it.
Driving from Toledo to Columbus at night, 800 would usually start taking heavy interference around Findlay on I-75 (by then, I knew this was a result of its null toward XEROK). Before that point, it was always listenable. Never as solid as WJR at night, of course, but listenable.
About four years ago getting off the Put-in-Bay shuttle at Port Clinton, just east of due south of the CKLW towers and almost in line between the towers and Columbus, it was far weaker than WJR or WSPD. Didn't even stop the scan on the clock radio at Put-in-Bay the night before. WJR was the only AM station powerful enough to do that.
 
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800 here is nothing in the daytime.
Nights usually bring CKOR Penticton BC (EZ Rock) mixing with KPDQ Portland (Religion) mixing with CHAB Moose Jaw (Oldies). I have also heard XEROK Juarez on occasion, and KBRV Soda Springs is surprisingly common to cheat at night (Classic Country). Rarely heard, in aurora, are XESPN Tijuana (SS News/Talk) and KBFP Bakersfield (Comedy). I also have a one-time log of KINY Juneau, AK, one early morning with a TOH ID.

On my want list is one station only - the former "Big 8" CKLW. I've heard WJR several times, why not this one? It should make it out through Moose Jaw at least on a spectacular night.
 
PJB also broadcast in Spanish, as well as English and other languages. Chances are, that's what you had, though XEROK was by no means impossible. I used to visit a former girlfriend in Vermillion, on Lake Erie and I had similar reception that you did on Put-In-Bay. It did blast into the Cedar Point parking lot on night pattern though.


schmave said:
I don't think I ever caught PJB. 800 was never one of those frequencies that was destination listening for me, basically because I never knew it should be if that makes sense. When I was DXing in the 90s (I'm 38 so I was a pre-teen to teenager in those days), more often than not I went straight for the Chicago blowtorches, WSB, KMOX, WOWO or other regional targets I was actively trying to hear and occasionally would stop between those channels. I thought I caught a Spanish-language station near our local AM 820 (then WOSU) one night in the early 90s, and that is the only reason I think it might have been XEROK.
I had never heard of CKLW until 1997, and by then I lived in Toledo. My scan stopped on 800 and there was sports talk so I listened. Only at the first commercial break did I realize I was listening to a Canadian station. Within a few months I'd read through all the history and learned much more about it.
Driving from Toledo to Columbus at night, 800 would usually start taking heavy interference around Findlay on I-75 (by then, I knew this was a result of its null toward XEROK). Before that point, it was always listenable. Never as solid as WJR at night, of course, but listenable.
About four years ago getting off the Put-in-Bay shuttle at Port Clinton, just east of due south of the CKLW towers and almost in line between the towers and Columbus, it was far weaker than WJR or WSPD. Didn't even stop the scan on the clock radio at Put-in-Bay the night before. WJR was the only AM station powerful enough to do that.
Click to expand...
 
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In the day it's the local KVOM very strong. At night it's still KVOM but at lower power (40 watts?) and I get some noise that comes in with it.

A couple of weeks ago CKLW came blasting in after dark presumably on their daytime pattern, which has never happened before. I posted about this in another thread.
 
Warminster PA(Philly 'burbs):

Daytime: WTMR Camden NJ(religious station).
Night: also WTMR, with CKLW often overpowering it(used to hear CKLW all the time when WTMR was a daytimer).
 
From the "more things change, the more they stay the same" department,
This could be a game changer on 800 if they get their $3.8 million and if it happens.
 
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Not only PJB's 450kW signal (close to the 525kW they had in the 60s through the 80s) but zeroing in on Cuba almost guarantees Cuba starts another "Cuban chorus" on 800 to jam the Bonaire signal.



ai4i said:
From the "more things change, the more they stay the same" department,
This could be a game changer on 800 if they get their $3.8 million and if it happens.
Click to expand...
 
gr8oldies said:
...zeroing in on Cuba almost guarantees Cuba starts another "Cuban chorus" on 800...
Click to expand...
Maybe not:
1. PJB will not have a pro-American, anti-communist political agenda.
2. They will not broadcast enticing capitalist commercials.
3. We do not know what a Trump or Clinton administration might do,
but Obama and Raul Castro have developed an ongoing working relationship.
 
Daytime in S.A. is splatter from local KYTY on 810. When ground conductivity is very good (i.e., fall or winter), I can hear a weak but steady XEZR, La Traviesa, in Zaragoza.

At night, XEZR usually dominates. XEROK is there as well and sometimes takes over for a bit. Occasionally I'll hear WSHO in New Orleans bubble up briefly.

Interestingly, XEZR does TOH IDs in English which note that the station serves both south central Texas and Coahuila. Sometimes the ID includes this phrase: "The best-looking women and the hardest-working men are in Zaragoza."
 
KXIC day and night here. Nothing all that interesting. Before KXIC stayed on at night, I would hear at various times XEROK, CKLW, PJB. Heard CHAB Moose Jaw at sometime or other.
 
jim-satx said:
Interestingly, XEZR does TOH IDs in English which note that the station serves both south central Texas and Coahuila. Sometimes the ID includes this phrase: "The best-looking women and the hardest-working men are in Zaragoza."
Click to expand...

Well, if you've got it, flaunt it! Gotta have something to brag about when you're sandwiched between a couple of monster nighttime signals.
 
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