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Soft Rock (AC) vs Variety Hits vs Classic Hits

A

acheron1982

These are three holes in this city that people consistently bring up as being badly needed. I'm curious as to what many of you think would do better here in Atlanta. I'll give my thoughts below but I do feel others will have a better opinion as these formats are not something I normally listen to.

Soft Rock (AC): This format has always confused me and it maybe because the AC station in Atlanta is not a true AC station. Is B98 a AC/Hot AC hybrid? I'm aware that this is 2016 (almost 2017) and 70s are toast on AC stations and 80s are going to be limited but I have a hard time accepting S&M by Rhianna on a AC station. I don't believe Z93.7 in Macon or 98.7 The River in Savannah would play those songs. Has the folks at COX already done the homework and know that a true AC station would not work in a city that leans younger in demographics?


Variety Hits: I've heard different versions of this station. Some are almost AC with an upbeat twist. Others lean classic hits (Chuck is an example). While true Variety Hits like the Arch in St. Louis (check their playlist) are truly all over the place playing anything from Pink to Nirvana to Thompson Twins to Journey. Because Atlanta is such a hit based town (turn and burn lives here), I am leaning towards Variety Hits.

Classic Hits: Again, it's a bit confusing. 97.1 The River is defined as Classic Hits. True, they lean classic rock but there are a handful of songs they throw at you to remind you they are no true classic rock station. They also don't go all that deep. Greg Lake died today of King Crimson and ELP and I can't think of the last time they were played on any of the Classic Rock stations and I can't see them being played on a Classic Hit Station. To me, Classic Hits is the Top 40 music of the 60s, 70s and 80s. Carrollton GA has a good one as it plays everything from The Eagles (pop) to Boston (rock) to Disco and even a few motown tracks.

So never mind what you want to hear in Atlanta but between those three choices, which do you think would work in Atlanta.
 
acheron1982 said:
Has the folks at COX already done the homework and know that a true AC station would not work in a city that leans younger in demographics? .
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Yes Cox has done their homework. In the Nov PPM's 4 of the top 6 (6+) stations were Cox. We do not see the money demos on this board but statistically they have to have a presence in the money demos. I wouldn't change very much until one of the other operators did something to seriously mess with the Cox stations. The obvious flip is 106.7, but someone at Cumulus is determined to do spoken word no matter how bad it performs. Who else has a big signaled FM to flip? So until the Storm Cloud Company wakes up there will be formats holes in the Atlanta market. I personally fell an 80's + adult hits format (WCBS FM for example) would do good, but until there is a major shake up at Cumulus the market will remain about the same IMHO.
 
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acheron1982 said:
Soft Rock (AC): This format has always confused me and it maybe because the AC station in Atlanta is not a true AC station. Is B98 a AC/Hot AC hybrid? I'm aware that this is 2016 (almost 2017) and 70s are toast on AC stations and 80s are going to be limited but I have a hard time accepting S&M by Rhianna on a AC station. I don't believe Z93.7 in Macon or 98.7 The River in Savannah would play those songs. Has the folks at COX already done the homework and know that a true AC station would not work in a city that leans younger in demographics?
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My guess: WSB-FM is probably trying to play some songs that appeal to cross-over listeners from V-103.

The WSB-HD2 soft rock service is not a concept that would succeed commercially, for sure. I just don't think there's a demand for "soft rock" music. I've written before on these boards that Men Without Hats is the new "soft rock for your busy life."

To me, classic hits, classic rock, and variety hits play 75% the same music. Take a classic rocker, subtract ZZ Top and add the Bee Gees and you've got classic hits. Take a variety hits station, and delete the 2000s from the playlist, and you've got classic hits.

If I'm Cumulus looking for the next format for WYAY, it's probably classic hits.
 
Odds and ends:

Cox has had it in for V-103 for decades. It would not surprise me if they are trying to steal their listenership on multiple fronts, not just Kiss 104.1.

I would say that classic rock and variety hits are quite different. Compare the playlists of 97.1 The River and 103.7 Chuck FM (both Cox stations, btw).

River calls themselves "classic hits" but 98% of their playlist is classic AOR, except for the occasional Billy Joel or Elton John song. Rock 100.5 has started differentiating themselves from River with their billboard campaign--"Chili Peppers, not Sgt. Pepper's" and "Van Halen, not Van Morrison".

Re: ELP, hardly anyone plays prog rock anymore. Not sure why (besides the obvious reason that it must not test well), but they don't. The only Yes song you hear anymore is "Owner of a Lonely Heart". I did hear "All Good People" ONCE and it was so surprising to hear that--and it was the single cut, not the longer album cut.

I've never understood why Cox doesn't put WSB-FM-HD2 online, like they do with TOSOTR (which gets a teeny-tiny translator to boot). It can't be the money, because I don't think they get anything for TOSOTR either (I never hear any spots on TOSOTR unless they're carrying G-Braves or Glads PXP--and TOSOTR had its online feed before they started doing PXP).
 
jabba17 said:
Compare the playlists of 97.1 The River and 103.7 Chuck FM (both Cox stations, btw).
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This is why a station won't flip to classic hits or variety hits in Atlanta. There are already stations doing the format. The issue is with the execution of the format.

That's what would happen if another station flipped to one of these formats. It wouldn't be long before we'd see all the same complaints: Too much repetition, why aren't they playing this or that, too many commercials, not enough 70s, etc. We see this everywhere. Who wants to run a station aiming at an older demo where the listeners are never satisfied?
 
Oh and I'm not so sure how well Rock 100.5's advertising ploy will work. RHCP cuts WNNX plays are all 90s (which classic rock stations have mostly added to their playlist). The river plays van Morrison but they also play Van Halen and per the playlists, they have more of a selection.

Rock 100.5 wants to differentiate themselves, the need to mix in more new rock and 2k rock. Otherwise, they sound like a watered down version of the river only playing the rivers rock side.
 
acheron1982 said:
The AC stations in Savannah and Macon are both "lite" leaning as compared to B.
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Those are not PPM markets. They are diary markets and rely more on local advertising than Atlanta stations.

acheron1982 said:
What would work.
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What would work is what you hear now. Soften the AC stations or adding more 70s or 80s songs to the classic stations will only attract older listeners (45+) who are not targeted by ad agencies. Those will not work. That's why you don't hear those stations in Atlanta.
 
TheBigA said:
This is why a station won't flip to classic hits or variety hits in Atlanta. There are already stations doing the format. The issue is with the execution of the format.
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103.7 Chuck FM isn't officially in the market (it's considered part of the Gainesville market and is in Cox's "North Georgia" cluster along with 106.1 WNGC and others), doesn't show up in the Atlanta Nielsens, and only covers the northeast corner of the Atlanta metro--now less well than it used to now that WIFN's intown translator is now on the air on that frequency.

There's still room in the market if someone wanted to give variety hits a go. Nobody actually in the Atlanta market is doing variety hits (or classic hits, for that matter, if you don't count The River, which IMNSHO is NOT classic hits).
 
jabba17 said:
103.7 Chuck FM isn't officially in the market (it's considered part of the Gainesville market and is in Cox's "North Georgia" cluster along with 106.1 WNGC and others), doesn't show up in the Atlanta Nielsens
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Which is why, as has been pointed out, they can do it there but not within Atlanta. It's a diary market, not PPM, and the advertising situation is very different.

Launching a new station with no heritage to draw on aimed at older audiences won't work in a PPM market. Especially given the demographics of Atlanta.
 
acheron1982 said:
Oh and I'm not so sure how well Rock 100.5's advertising ploy will work. RHCP cuts WNNX plays are all 90s (which classic rock stations have mostly added to their playlist). The river plays van Morrison but they also play Van Halen and per the playlists, they have more of a selection.

Rock 100.5 wants to differentiate themselves, the need to mix in more new rock and 2k rock. Otherwise, they sound like a watered down version of the river only playing the rivers rock side.
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The "newer" rock failed on 96.1 after it was moved from 105 "the Buzz." I have always thought if 100.5 could pick up a lot of 97.1's audience by finishing their commercial break and starting a music sweep before 97.1 starts their commercial break. We used to call it counter programming.
 
TheBigA said:
Launching a new station with no heritage to draw on aimed at older audiences won't work in a PPM market. Especially given the demographics of Atlanta.
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I'd disagree. WFEZ in Miami launched in the PPM era, and it is doing extremely well. Similar launches in San Diego and San Francisco have met with instant success.

The strategy with these three, as well as several others, has been to initially aim old at an unserved market and then tweek a bit to improve 25-54 once a strong core is achieved. This sounds like a reversal of CHR launches which used to target teens first, and then broaden into 18-34.
 
TheBigA said:
WFEZ is owned by Cox, and Cox has the option to do a Lite AC like that in Atlanta. There's obviously something that has stopped them.
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I'd wager the "something" is the demographics of the Atlanta market vs. Miami, which has huge numbers of retirees.
 
TheBigA said:
WFEZ is owned by Cox, and Cox has the option to do a Lite AC like that in Atlanta. There's obviously something that has stopped them.
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I don't buy the notion that a 'soft-AC' station (targeted at an older audience) will fail out of the box. It is quite possible that it would do well here - give it a try and tweak it. The real problem is there is simply no place to put it, given the existing format battles taking place as well as what some here think is stubbornness to flip existing underperforming formats (think 'cloud company!'). Nearly ten years ago, LITE-FM was considered a successful station when it was abruptly flipped to country. We also have a few classic hit rimshot stations like Magic 98.1 (SW Atlanta), Chuck FM (NE of Atlanta) which may be serving to erode the need for a full-blown AC or classic hits signal here.

I have observed that this market is surrounded by markets with AC/soft rock stations. WSPA 98.9 in Greenville/Spartanburg, WDEF 92.3 Chattanooga, stations in Macon and Savannah, not one but TWO soft AC's in Birmingham AL, not one but TWO in Raleigh/Durham NC, and the list goes on... I hear these stations frequently when I travel and unlike B98.5, these are true soft rock stations - there is a BIG difference. And to my knowledge, these stations have been around for a good while. It's working all around this market. I guess that is why we refer to this as a format HOLE!

As Mr Roddy Freeman noted on another thread, with so many stations going after the same demo here, something has to give eventually.
 
Lotologist492 said:
As Mr Roddy Freeman noted on another thread, with so many stations going after the same demo here, something has to give eventually.
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That doesn't mean they'll choose soft AC.

This isn't bout music or format holes. It's about attracting an audience that advertisers want to reach. That's what the game is all about. There are lots of older skewing radio stations in Atlanta now. Not all of them play music. But there's no need to fill that hole, because the audience is already being reached in other formats.

Instead of talking about music, talk about money and advertising, because THAT is how this decision will be made.
 
CTListener said:
I'd wager the "something" is the demographics of the Atlanta market vs. Miami, which has huge numbers of retirees.
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Actually, Miami has a relatively small percentage of retirees today... about 14% over 65. Buffalo, NY and Bangor, ME have higher percentages.

On the other hand, Atlanta has a low percentage. It's less than 8%, and less than the national average of 12.4% 65 and older.

Cool website for those who like to see this kind of statistic: http://www.census-charts.com/Metropolitan/AgeSex.html

And a large percentage of Miami seniors are from the first waves of Cuban refugee migrations during the 60's and early 70's. They are not going to be big users of English language soft AC.
 
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