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Daytime Skywave on 650

cyberdad

cyberdad

Today was a lovely clear day at my getaway location on the Gulf near Pensacola, and I'm out on the deck with my Supe-II. As I'm working my way through the dial, I hear classic country on 650 with a very faint signal. It was about 1pm local time CDT). And alt first, I didn't think much of it.

About a half hour later, I went back to 650, and the very weak classic country was still there. Along with a positive ID...WSM. I immediately thought that it must be daytime skywayve, but I was surprised because I thought I was too far south and at a spot too low on the dial. Groundwave? That would have been roughly 400 miles over terrain with poor, if not terrible, ground conductivity.

Thinking skywave for sure, I went up to 1510 expecting to find WLAC. Instead there was no trace of it. Just a weak signal in Spanish. Meanwhile, WSM on 650 was fairly steady for about the entire fifteen minutes I stayed on the channel. I did notice some slight changes in the signal, but only very minor fading.

Any thoughts or ideas on what I was experiencing?
 
Did you hear any of the Memphis stations? Or further north, any hint of WLW or WHAS? It does sound like daytime skywave but I would think you'd hear some other stations from the same region.
 
I remember something like that happening back in the spring of 1995 in Phoenix, where the LA and SD stations were coming in like locals, and the SF stations weren't much weaker. IIRC, it was about noon, and lasted for a couple of hours. It was near the sunspot minimum at the end of Sunspot Cycle 22, so that may have had something to do with it.
 
Interesting Cyberdad. Don't know why you wouldn't have heard WLAC. Many years ago I was near San Diego in February and heard KGO & KNBR around noon on an isolated day. (Didn't happen on any other day I was there), but couldn't hear anything higher on the dial from Northern California. An experience similar to what you've described.
 
That's pretty cool, cyberdad. I'm a bit too close to 660 in Fairhope for weak signal work on 650 during the day, but I bet it was skywave. WLAC's signal was always so subpar from what I remember, and I bet they just don't put enough juice out to make the hop down to the coast like WSM did. I would have checked for 1550 WLOR from Huntsville, or 850 from Birmingham.
 
Waiting for family in the parking lot at a restaurant in Pendleton, IN this time of year several years ago and discovered WSM at 281 miles is a midday catch. Have been back several times since and WSM is always there. Move a mile down the road in any direction and its gone.
 
I didn't hear anything out of the ordinary besides WSM. The 660 from Fairhope (AL) seems to have a slightly better signal than I remember from past visits, but splatter from them is only a minor issue at best at my location, and they're easy to null. I did hear an unidentifiable signal on 850, Could've been Birmingham or perhaps even Gainesville (FL). It may be worth mentioning that I did hear one daytime signal here yesterday that I've never heard before....WDBO on 580 from Orlando. But I'd attribute that to the mostly saltwater path.

On the other side of the coin, KCTA from Corpus Christi, which I've heard here before, was totally missing. Not a trace of it.

Finally, Tomservo, have you noticed that the Pensacola 1230 (WDWR,WNVY, etc.) is off the air? The daytime result here on the beach is a perfectly audible WBOK from New Orleans. 160 mile hop via saltwater. I used to hear them under Pensacola. Now they're pretty much alone.

The Fort Walton 1400 (ex-WNUE) also appears to be silent, although I'm not 100% sure about that one.
 
cyberdad said:
Finally, Tomservo, have you noticed that the Pensacola 1230 (WDWR,WNVY, etc.) is off the air? The daytime result here on the beach is a perfectly audible WBOK from New Orleans. 160 mile hop via saltwater. I used to hear them under Pensacola. Now they're pretty much alone.

The Fort Walton 1400 (ex-WNUE) also appears to be silent, although I'm not 100% sure about that one.
Click to expand...

I didn't know that about 1230 but it doesn't surprise me. Guadalupe bought the Stein from Divine Word but the tower "controversy" continued, so maybe the environmentalists won and the tower was taken back down. It was on the air as recently as last summer.
 
cyberdad said:
Today was a lovely clear day at my getaway location on the Gulf near Pensacola, and I'm out on the deck with my Supe-II. As I'm working my way through the dial, I hear classic country on 650 with a very faint signal. It was about 1pm local time CDT). And alt first, I didn't think much of it.

About a half hour later, I went back to 650, and the very weak classic country was still there. Along with a positive ID...WSM. I immediately thought that it must be daytime skywayve, but I was surprised because I thought I was too far south and at a spot too low on the dial. Groundwave? That would have been roughly 400 miles over terrain with poor, if not terrible, ground conductivity.

Thinking skywave for sure, I went up to 1510 expecting to find WLAC. Instead there was no trace of it. Just a weak signal in Spanish. Meanwhile, WSM on 650 was fairly steady for about the entire fifteen minutes I stayed on the channel. I did notice some slight changes in the signal, but only very minor fading.

Any thoughts or ideas on what I was experiencing?
Click to expand...

Had to be skywave where the conditions were just right for that particular frequency.

I was once at Clearwater Beach on a cold December early afternoon around 1 pm and 700 WLW was coming in very well and steady too with a very slow fade in and out.

So I figured that if that was coming in, 1530 WCKY also from Cincinnati would be a piece of cake.

Nope, not a trace. And I scanned the AM band and couldn't get any other stations from up north that would be nighttime regulars.

No way WLW could have been groundwave at that distance but the interesting thing is that the signal got weaker and weaker on the car radio as I was going back to Tampa and was gone by the time I started crossing the bay leaving Pinellas County.

What probably was happening was the skywave heard at the beach was propagating partly over the Gulf which allowed for it to be heard there vs. inland.
 
@ Cyberdad : 'getaway location on the Gulf near Pensacola' ...
Darn you.
Talking to we people in the north on Feb 1st with language like that .....

A terrain map of the USA inscribes that Appalachian arc of mountain all the way up to us, near its northern
terminus. And somewhere on cassette here is an ID from WESC 660 South Carolina. That reception was on a December 3rd. There was no WFAN New York whatsoever.

Nashville is close enough to that Appalachian swerve for me to suggest that you were under the spell of that precious Mid-Winter Anomaly. I've gotten a half-dozen or so improbable early afternoon catches that way, at two different DX spots.

Grand stuff.
73
 
Upda4te: Today same time, same place, same radio, same 650. But no station. Well, actually, I did hear something, and it might have even been WSM, but it was too weak to make out....let alone ID it. 1510 was even more blank. Not even the weak Spanish I had heard yesterday. Based on some of the comments here, I tried a few other frequencies....

640 and 680: Looking for Memphis. Instead it was all R. Progreso and WGES (St. Pete) respectively
700: Blank....other than splatter from WQNO and WNTM (as well as the "Cuban Chorus"
850: Unidentified religious. Barely audible Birmingham? I'm not sure
1530: Something weak and unidentifiable, but probably not WCKY
1550: Two weak stations mixing. One of them apparently in Spanish.

Later around 5pm, WLAC was blasting, and WSM was in with a fair signal.

But....there were also two first-time catches for me at this location. First, CFZM comfortably on top of 740 (finally....after sunset, it was mostly KTRH). Then KXEL, also before sunset obviously on day pattern with a fair-good signal.
 
Back in my active DX days I too would notice distant signals at the low end of the dial on winter days. From Cincinnati I would often hear 660 and 770 from New York and 1030 from Boston during the mid-day, but no sign of skywave at the high end of the dial. I assumed it was extended groundwave courtesy of the saturated ground soil during the winter months.
 
Same thing happens in Charleston. WSM comes in actually pretty frequently here during the winter daytime. Sometimes it stays in all day. Pretty good for over 450 miles. I heard WWKB Buffalo on 1520 about 2 months ago before 3pm, but most of my daytime skywave is on low frequencies.
 
cyberdad said:
Today was a lovely clear day at my getaway location on the Gulf near Pensacola, and I'm out on the deck with my Supe-II. As I'm working my way through the dial, I hear classic country on 650 with a very faint signal. It was about 1pm local time CDT). And alt first, I didn't think much of it.

About a half hour later, I went back to 650, and the very weak classic country was still there. Along with a positive ID...WSM. I immediately thought that it must be daytime skywayve, but I was surprised because I thought I was too far south and at a spot too low on the dial. Groundwave? That would have been roughly 400 miles over terrain with poor, if not terrible, ground conductivity.

Thinking skywave for sure, I went up to 1510 expecting to find WLAC. Instead there was no trace of it. Just a weak signal in Spanish. Meanwhile, WSM on 650 was fairly steady for about the entire fifteen minutes I stayed on the channel. I did notice some slight changes in the signal, but only very minor fading.

Any thoughts or ideas on what I was experiencing?
Click to expand...

Could the Spanish you were hearing on 1510 actually be ESPN Deportes on WRRD Waukesha/Milwaukee (despite its null to the south)?
 
Tim from Springfield said:
Could the Spanish you were hearing on 1510 actually be ESPN Deportes on WRRD Waukesha/Milwaukee (despite its null to the south)?
Click to expand...

Doubtful, Tim. Where I live in Crystal Lake, I never heard them when they were at 10kw. And they're still invisible now at 23kw. The null in my direction is really severe. That's 23kw from a little over 60 miles away from me in an area with good ground conductivity, and I still can't hear them!
 
Schroedingers Cat said:
We had a similar thread about WSM and other strange Daytime Skywave events a few years ago. ]
Click to expand...

Although I have mentioned it before, I had one rather astounding instance of mid-day skywave back in the early 60's. It was the reception outside Cleveland, OH, of 4VEH in Cap Hatien, Haiti on 1035 kcs. The station was running 10 kw and broadcasting in Kreyol, so a positive ID was easy. Of course, 1035 was a totally clear frequency with the next closest occupant being in Ecuador. Deep winter conditions and a totally clear channel made the reception possible.

1035 was widely heard at night, and was many DXers on only Haitian log since the next easiest stations were 1145 and 1385 and, I believe 1285 in Port au Prince and ran only a few hundred watts into longwire antennas and, if we got them at all, and at night, it was sometimes a one-time piece of good luck.
 
I know when I rented a house in Daytona Beach shores right on the Intercoastal waterway, WFAM, WABC, WCBS, WLW, WSM, and several others were easy daytime catches for the ten months I lived there. Absolutely dependable on a GE Superadio 2. Moved a couple of miles inland after ten months - all were completely gone.
 
Speaking of WRRD, it does look unlikely you would hear skywave in Springfield, but not impossible. In any other general direction, quite possible. I hear it a lot in SE MI during CH and beyond. Look at the measured conductivities near Milwaukee, and keep in mind that the other directions not measured may be no better. Not a single measurement anywhere near 15, and only one close to 8 near Milwaukee. Most around 4. Now it probably was done during the Summer, maybe it's on there but I didn't see it yet.

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS...?appn=101130962&qnum=5120&copynum=1&exhcnum=1

Just looked. 1966 Proof Of Performance. Month and Day not specified in this application. Proofs would not be online except possibly in some other application for a nearby adjacent channel.
 
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cyberdad said:
Upda4te: Today same time, same place, same radio, same 650. But no station. Well, actually, I did hear something, and it might have even been WSM, but it was too weak to make out....let alone ID it.
Click to expand...

The fact that you did not hear WSM on a second day would indicate it was skywave. Groundwave is constant, so if it were ground wave is would always be there (unless knocked out by someone else's skywave.) Nothing uncommon about occasional midday skywave in winter, but the lack of higher frequencies is interesting. You were tuned to the right place at the right time.
 
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