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What about Tall Tom Campbell & Cal Stereo. Along with the Supershops were LA's biggest advertisers at one time. Tom demanded top of the hour spots, kind of unique as I'm sure he paid extra, that is when he did pay
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Back in... Five?
- Thread starter ChannelFlipper
- Start date
Quote Originally Posted by ChannelFlipper
I now think I know who is winning the KLOS vs. KSWD revenue war. I can't imagine a station giving up almost half of its morning drive slot for no commercials.
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Also from an earlier thread re: 2016 radio revenue in Los Angeles:
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Quote Originally Posted by TheBigA
Conspicuously absent (from the Top 15 revenue stations in L.A. in 2016): KLOS and The Sound.
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Quote Originally Posted by DavidEduardo
#21 (KLOS) and #22 (KSWD).
I now think I know who is winning the KLOS vs. KSWD revenue war. I can't imagine a station giving up almost half of its morning drive slot for no commercials.
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Also from an earlier thread re: 2016 radio revenue in Los Angeles:
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Quote Originally Posted by TheBigA
Conspicuously absent (from the Top 15 revenue stations in L.A. in 2016): KLOS and The Sound.
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Quote Originally Posted by DavidEduardo
#21 (KLOS) and #22 (KSWD).
Top of the hour is different from first in cluster. If you DEMAND something, it will cost more.
When was the last time you were behind the board, Big A? While I have not been behind one since August, I can assure you that this is a common practice. Yes, clients are always looking for discounts. They are also looking for ROI and some are willing to pay a little more to get it.
I have seldom come across clients that wanted "first in set" and none that would pay for it. Even protection from competitives is pretty much a thing of the past.
The issue is not being behind the board... it is being an OM, GM, sales manager, NSM, rep firm seller or group executive. That is where sales are generated and where one is familiar with spot placement orders and requests from clients.
(sigh) The reason I mention being behind the board is because you have a log in front of you that you must follow. Listed on the log are the commercials you must play and the order in which you must play them. When you see the instructions "first in pod" that means that that is the commercial that you are to play first in the stop set. That is because the client has requested that that commercial be played first in the stop set. The automation system produces it's own accounting of where and when spots ran. Should you not run the spot at the required time and placement in the stopset, there will be repercussions. My experience (actual in studio radio experience, not arm chair quarterbacking experience) was that there would be at least one of these commercials per shift, often times more. You don't have to take my word for it. Go ahead and ask some sales people, traffic directors or any number of OMs, GMs, sales managers, NSMs, rep firm sellers and group executives.
I have not seen a paper log in a studio for about a decade. Everywhere I have worked for about 20 years has had all commercials on a digital storage system, and the music logs and the traffic logs are automatically loaded at midnight each day. Stopsets are run by the computer, following the log. Reconciliation is done by comparing the scheduled log with the actually run data, and billing is done of that verified information.
There are no instructions except for the case of a live read (and 99% of those today are pre-recorded "live" reads by the contracted talent).
Except in vary small stations and perhaps very small markets, the person on the air (if there actually is one) has no control over the commercials. They basically run automatically. We really have not had control over the actual spots in studio since cart machines disappeared... and now they don't even make carts or the tape to put in them.
Even in "live assist" mode the person on the board simply pushes a sequence button on the screen or on the board to start the stopset and it runs by itself per the log.
I don't have to ask any of those folks... I have filled all of those positions at some point.
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FYI, the last gig I had was in Los Angeles. Station (not a small one) has a paper log. Go figure.
The question here isn't whether spots and logs are loaded by computer. They are still input by a human being. I know how a radio station operates, thank you. For you to say that there are never any instructions is ignorant and you, with all of your experience, should know better. Live reads are hardly all pre-recorded, another sign of ignorance on the subject. Sure, some are, but again, clients like to have their requests honored, and reading a live read "live" is what they're paying for.
I'm not really concerned with what stations you work with and how they do business and whether or not THEY get specific instructions as to how their clients' schedules are to run. Perhaps they don't get any substantial buys. Whatever the case, the issue was whether clients pay to have they're spots run first in pod.
The answer is yes.
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During the early/mid 80s KIIS FM visually labeled commercials with an intro indicator so the jock could talk over it & keep the tempo moving into the stopset. Tim Kelly described it as flying an airplane, always avoiding a cold commercial when possible. Those spots were moved to the end of the commercial set. Perhaps another reason the station sounded so right, so tight.
What was the possible use of the paper log? I don't know of any station that requires a person in the studio to "place" the spots in a stopset.
In "all my experience" nearly all live reads are pre-recoded now for both legal reasons and because folks in the studio do not generally follow the stopsets (that you call "pods"). There are exceptions but they are generally limited to morning shows, and then you might have a producer of sidekick or someone to perform the mechanics. That's why I said "nearly all" instead of "all". It is an exception...
Many if not most larger broadcast companies have centralized traffic. It's one of the first things you see being done when companies merge or are bought out. A team of people in one market handles traffic, billing and accounting, and there is not even a single person who works on each station's log. Where traffic is not centralized, such as at smaller stations even in big markets, one person may handle several stations in a cluster or be responsible for multiple functions such as continuity, traffic and even billing.
Anecdotally, when I computerized traffic on my first two-station combo back in 1975, one person did traffic, continuity, production and billing for two highly rated stations. We never had a request for special placement that was greater than a limited part of a daypart. Those stations did about 90% agency business, as they were most two of the top 4 stations in the market.
My only point here, far from arguing, is to point out that over the last couple of decades it has become far less common to have live reads, to have clients request specific placement (other than tightly restricted run orders, such as 7 to 9 AM) and to do any changing in spot order in the broadcast studio. At the same time, the running of commercial has shifted from carts to digital storage systems where all spots in a stopset are stored and run from a computer-generated lot that is in many cases never printed out.
As to live reads again... in a large percentage of cases, the talent will record a variety of spots once every week or two, following copy points. What the client wants is a cheaper form of "endorsement" where the talent creates the spot as if it were live. By recording many cuts, each a little different, the objective of sounding like an endorsement is achieved and the client knows that the spots are all right on point and have been reviewed and any pauses or errors just don't exist.
That said, some of the traffic systems do have options for first in stopset, but I don't see much usage for that kind of thing any more. It takes a lot of extra work, and clients won't pay the needed additional charge. In the case of agency accounts or direct accounts with ad managers, everyone has seen the actual, PPM-derived facts on the "myth" of "everyone tuning out" at the start of a stopset. Were I a client, I'd be more concerned about my spot running right after a new song, which is likely to have more tune-out than the start of a stopset.
When was the last time you sold spots? That's what we're talking about here, not running a board.
I always offer my clients the option of paying more for lots of things, including placement and exclusivity. If they pay me enough, they can be the ONLY sponsor in an hour. They rarely take me up on that one. Only once do I remember it happening, and it was in December.
Unless you're the one doing the deal, you don't know what the agreement was. Just because it's first in the spot log doesn't mean the client PAID for that placement.
And my question to you is: How do you know that (1) They paid more, and (2) The position was their choice?
Yes, advertisers pay more for live reads, and quite often those live reads are the first spot in the cluster. But they're placed there to capture the value of the DJ, and they pay more because of a talent fee, not because it's the first spot in the cluster.
I've sold spots, sponsorships, remotes, events, all that crap. Done the sales manager thing. Again, the board reference is more of a log reference, where I can see, printed quite clearly on the printed log: "must run first in pod." ("Pod" being the language used on the log, not necessarily my choice of words).
Now, could some of these placements be "value added" (FREE in sales parlance)? Of course. I've worked with any number of sales people who'll give away the farm to get on a buy. Generally you pay more for something special like a live read, testimonial, top of hour sponsorship or specific placement. But yes, any of these things can be given away.
That brings up another question: Under what circumstances would you diverge from the log?
The reason I ask is that typically, at least at most stations I know, the entire break is automated. You trigger the break, and the computer plays the spots in the order in the log. So why would there be instructions that a spot must run first? It's not like you're playing a group of tape carts as though it's still the 70s.
In many groups, the folks in the studio don't even have the necessary permissions to touch the spots.
Where I live there's this one the station - the Hip-hop station except for during morning drive the commercial breaks are approximately 10 mins long. Throw in the announcements for what's happening at area clubs and you're up to 12 or 13 mins. The commercial break always starts somewhere between a few minutes before :40 after the hour to a few mins after :40 past the hour.
A lot of the places I go to are within a 15 min drive and if I get in the car at the wrong time I could go the entire drive without hearing any music. Fortunately I have a diverse taste in music so I will button push when that long commercial break cones on.
A lot of the places I go to are within a 15 min drive and if I get in the car at the wrong time I could go the entire drive without hearing any music. Fortunately I have a diverse taste in music so I will button push when that long commercial break cones on.
That happened to me two days ago. The wifey had the alarm clock set but got up early and didn't turn it off (a long standing marital issue). Anyway, it went off a couple minutes after 7AM just as a stop set was beginning. I counted 18 spots which took just under 15 minutes. Some of the spots were only seconds long and others seemed to be between 30 seconds and one minute. Two times in this commercial break car dealer ads butted up against each other. And radio suits wonder why listeners are using alternate means of music listening.
You don't diverge from the log unless the Traffic Director comes in and changes it (adding or dropping a spot for instance). However, there are times when you have to be a more active participant:
1. When the automation breaks down. Happens more than you might think. Depending on the severity of the crash you are manually re-loading the automation and in some instances, firing each spot individually. It's times like these when you wish you had a triple stack cart deck.
2. While the log may specify a specific placement, sometimes the automation schedules items in a different order. If you're sharp, you catch it and adjust accordingly.
The paper log holds the board operator accountable for what goes over the air, regardless of how efficient the systems in place are. When you sign each page of the log, you are verifying that everything ran as scheduled. If the wrong spot plays and you check it off as correct, that's on you. Dated copy, a :30 logged but a :60 in the system... these are all things that are the responsibility of the board op to catch. If you check it off or sign off on it, it had better have run correctly
Now I realize that perhaps none of these things have ever happened to you, at stations you've worked at, consulted or heard about. That's OK. These things do happen.
Just like someone, somewhere, at some time, paid to have their radio commercial played as the very first commercial in the break, stopset, pod, or whatever you want to call it.
You may now have the last word.
Just like someone, somewhere, at some time, paid to have their radio commercial played as the very first commercial in the break, stopset, pod, or whatever you want to call it.
You may now have the last word.
OK..."Someone somewhere at some time" is very different from what you said earlier:
"Someone" isn't the same thing as "many" Sure there's an exception to every rule.
But you still haven't shown me where ANY of these advertisers have "paid a premium" for their placement. But sure, if you want to say that someone did, I'll give you that. Just maybe not necessarily at any station you or I ever worked at.
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