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WGBH vs WBUR

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...irwaves-war/4tmVpry89f7ZN1RFwNwjJO/story.html

Boston's Public News/talk Radio stations on the spotlight. Yes the the article makes you think of the 1010 Wins vs 880 WCBS rivaly though. But the article goes on to mention that if WBUR and WGBH were to be combined then their audience share would be bigger than KQED 88.5 in San Francisco.

At the time, it seemed like a bold move for a media company. Maybe a stupid one.

Sleepy public radio station WGBH-FM would forsake classical music and jazz programming that had defined it for decades in favor of an all-news and talk format, going head-to-head — or maybe, tote bag to tote bag — against WBUR, the established NPR giant licensed to Boston University.


“It was a bit of a jump off a cliff,” WGBH Radio general manager Phil Redo acknowledged.

Now seven years after switching formats, WGBH has the audience numbers to say it was right all along: There was room in Boston for a second all-news NPR outlet, without cannibalizing the first.

Over the past five years, WGBH’s audience has grown more than any other major NPR news station in the country, says Ken Mills, a Minneapolis broadcast consultant who writes about noncommercial radio. Its weekly listeners have nearly doubled since the spring of 2012, rising from 235,200 to 445,200, according to Nielsen data aggregated by Mills. By that measure, WGBH now ranks 10th in the country among NPR news stations.

“The growth of listeners at WGBH is truly remarkable,” Mills said. “I don’t know of any other situation in public radio where a station has penetrated the market that fast.”

Perhaps the most remarkable part of WGBH’s ascent is that it largely spared its chief rival, steadily building a base without damaging WBUR, or even swiping their monogrammed umbrellas.


WBUR still boasts a larger audience and continues to grow. The station’s weekly listeners grew over the past five years from 409,000 to 534,400, Mills said, to the nation’s sixth-highest mark.

Their simultaneous success says something telling about Boston, which may well be more devoted to the decorous purr of public radio than any other American metropolis.

If the audience shares of the two stations were combined, it would create the No. 1 radio station in Greater Boston, according to Nielsen audience estimates. Taken together, WGBH and WBUR command a bigger local market share than San Francisco’s KQED, the public radio station with the most weekly listeners in the country, according to Mills and Nielsen.

In the realm of public radio, the Boston situation — close quarters combat between well-off rivals — is extremely rare.

“Boston is the only market in America that has two full-power FM stations running this same news and information format head-to-head,” said WBUR general manager Charles Kravetz.

Managers at both stations politely downplay the rivalry with sports-like clichés about how competition makes everybody better. Neither side is spiking the football.

Elbows get a bit sharper, though, over the question of which station is the most local, which better reflects the voice of Greater Boston.

Both stations regularly remind listeners of how Bostonesque they are. Tune to WBUR at 90.9 and you’ll hear the tagline, “Boston’s NPR News Station.” Click over to 89.7, WGBH, for “Boston’s local NPR.”

The slogans sound similar, and some programming overlaps, too. Both stations run locally tailored versions of NPR’s “Morning Edition.” Both run popular national shows such as “All Things Considered” and “Marketplace.” Managers at both agree there is some “brand confusion” among some listeners, though that has subsided as the competitors have worked to differentiate themselves.

After moving here from Chicago about seven years ago, Michael Omenazu, 28, who lives in Cambridge, sampled both stations as a way to acclimate to his new home. He settled on WBUR, finding it “more fresh and new and inventive,” he said, with “personalities more connected to the community.” The WBUR app is one of the first things he fires up in the mornings.

Steve Sandak, a 31-year-old who lives in Medford, said he has been a dedicated WGBH guy since about 2014.

“It’s the people,” he said, referring to the on-air hosts. “I’ve gotten used to hearing them and there is a foundation of trust.” He appreciates that midday hosts Jim Braude and Margery Eagan regularly bring back newsmakers for ongoing conversations.

Of the two stations, WBUR has allied itself more closely with National Public Radio, said radio consultant and historian Scott Fybush. WBUR began broadcasting in 1950, as an educational station licensed to BU, according to BUR. In the 1970s, the station began airing NPR programs.

Now, WBUR creates more than four hours a day of nationally syndicated NPR shows. The locally produced daily news magazine “Here & Now” is carried nationally by about 450 public radio stations and averages 5 million listeners a week, Kravetz said. It is run in partnership with NPR; 23 people work full time on the show. Stations that air it pay a fee, he said.

“The good news is that because it has been accepted by stations across the country it is now [financially] self sustaining,” he said.

Two other WBUR-produced shows, “On Point” with Tom Ashbrook and the sports program “Only a Game,” are heard nationally on about 250 stations, according to WBUR.

“We’re probably the public radio station with the closest relationship to NPR of any station, because we produce more hours of national programming for NPR than any other public radio station,” Kravetz said.

Amid their battle for supremacy in Boston, both stations say they are investing and expanding. Both work out of handsomely appointed studios and both are financially prosperous — admired and envied by many in the public broadcasting universe.

“Both are very well heeled compared to most public radio stations,” Mills said. “There are maybe two dozen stations that are in that range.”

WBUR is just finishing a $2.6 million expansion of its offices, newsroom, and studios — and intends to keep building. Station executives plan to open a 240-seat event space next year, for lectures, films, live radio shows, storytelling, and public conversations.

WBUR is aiming to raise $10 million from donors to build it. “We’ve raised about $5.5 million so far, and we’re confident we can get to that $10 million mark,” he said.

About 70,000 people donate annually to WBUR, he said.

A comparable figure for WGBH is hard to come by, as the station’s financials are merged with its corporate parent, the public TV colossus Channel 2, and several other broadcast properties. But this may give a sense of scale: Together, they earned $179 million in total revenue in 2016, according to a WGBH financial statement.
 
When an executive of Greater Media which then owned WTTK-FM 96.9 heard that Jim Braude and Margery Eagan were taking their partnership to 89.9 WGBH-FM he predicted that they would fail within a short time. What did fail and has failed are the numerous formats which followed the departure of Eagan and Braude's at 96.9. It's call letters and format change with each failing rating book. The failure of Greater Media and its subsequent sale of its radio properties is clear evidence of the failure of commercial radio in the Boston market. When you aim at an audience's lowest common denominator you are bound to fail since that lowest common denominator is never a stabile and measurable factor. Four years after their sudden departure from commercial radio to WGBH-FM 89.9 Eagan and Braude have become appointment listening every week day from 11.AM to 2 P.M.
 
Pardon the bandwidth, while we deal with Yo's alternative reality.


When an executive of Greater Media which then owned WTTK-FM 96.9 heard that Jim Braude and Margery Eagan were taking their partnership to 89.9 WGBH-FM he predicted that they would fail within a short time.

This is not true...and something you have repeated ad-nauseum. From what I hear, everyone liked them, and wished them well.

What did fail and has failed are the numerous formats which followed the departure of Eagan and Braude's at 96.9.

Wrong again. "Numerous formats"? How about ONE?

The launch of Hot 96.9 has been the most successful launch of a station in 2013.

Recent ratings:

Top 4 P25-34 all dayparts
Top 5 W25-34 all dayparts
Top 5 P18-34 overall, mornings, afternoons, nights and weekends
Top 4 P18-49 overall, mornings, afternoons, nights and weekends
Top 5 W18-49 overall, mornings, middays, afternoons and nights

Doesn't sound like a failure to me!

What planet are you on?

...The failure of Greater Media

I think Gr. Media Boston was one of the most successful radio clusters.

Four years after their sudden departure from commercial radio to WGBH-FM 89.9 Eagan and Braude have become appointment listening

I don't know about "appointment listening"...but they have done well.


Now, about this alternative world you live in Yo. It is evident by your clouded view of reality.

And is it any wonder why some people have not been welcomed back into the industry?
 
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I don't know about "appointment listening"...but they have done well.

Is 89.7 subsidized by taxpayers/fundraising the same way Channel 2 is?

If so, its easy to be "successful" when other people are paying your bills.
 
WGBH and WBQT are both successful in different ways. Technically, WBQT has had two formats since changing from WTKK. They went to Rhythmic AC and gradually evolved into a Rhythmic CHR (Rhythmic Top 40) format. I guess Tilden is right about the "numerous formats" if you count all of the stunts that they did at the beginning of January 2013 before they officially changed.
 
The failure of Greater Media and its subsequent sale of its radio properties is clear evidence of the failure of commercial radio in the Boston market.

Huh?

Greater Media was a very successful, well managed company. It got a premium price when it sold. Its CEO was widely regarded as one of the industry's best "captains"... some, myself included, would consider him the best.

The company was sold because it was family owned and the newer generation wanted to get out of all businesses they directly owned and go with more passive investments.
 
WGBH and WBQT are both successful in different ways. Technically, WBQT has had two formats since changing from WTKK. They went to Rhythmic AC and gradually evolved into a Rhythmic CHR (Rhythmic Top 40) format. I guess Tilden is right about the "numerous formats" if you count all of the stunts that they did at the beginning of January 2013 before they officially changed.

Again, this is what you get when you appeal to the lowest common denominator as your audience objective. Who would have thought that Greater Media would be out of the business before Eagan & Braude. Don't think Mr. Symth went to Washington. Probably bailed with a bundle. Not a bad guy but way off target when it came to E&B. Perhaps, he let political views get in the way of years of experience in the business
 
Is 89.7 subsidized by taxpayers/fundraising the same way Channel 2 is?

If so, its easy to be "successful" when other people are paying your bills.

In all media, someone else pays the bills.

With commercial stations, it its advertisers. With non-coms, it is donors, grants and, sometimes, small amounts of government funding.

But in every case, the audience must be pleased for revenue to come in. Advertisers do not spend on stations nobody likes. Donors don't give to stations they don't enjoy.

You make it sound like non-commercial stations are on welfare, and get free money for doing nothing. Not true.
 


In all media, someone else pays the bills.

With commercial stations, it its advertisers. With non-coms, it is donors, grants and, sometimes, small amounts of government funding.

But in every case, the audience must be pleased for revenue to come in. Advertisers do not spend on stations nobody likes. Donors don't give to stations they don't enjoy.

You make it sound like non-commercial stations are on welfare, and get free money for doing nothing. Not true.
Absolutely! The other posters must be old time salesmen whose experience is greatly limited. They see no other way to success.
 
Again, this is what you get when you appeal to the lowest common denominator as your audience objective. Who would have thought that Greater Media would be out of the business before Eagan & Braude. Don't think Mr. Symth went to Washington. Probably bailed with a bundle. Not a bad guy but way off target when it came to E&B. Perhaps, he let political views get in the way of years of experience in the business

Read this from Inside Radio, please.

http://www.insideradio.com/free/gre...cle_2b6b21c2-4f08-11e6-9f91-43ac6e06daf5.html

It explains why the Brodes family which founded Greater Media over 60 years ago decided to sell. The children of the original founders were not interested in expanding or, in fact, even running radio and newspaper properties and wanted to invest the money more passively.

It was a great company with a star manager.
 
Again, this is what you get when you appeal to the lowest common denominator as your audience objective.

What is what you get? A successful station?

Who would have thought that Greater Media would be out of the business before Eagan & Braude.

Ummmm....Lots of people?

Many thought they would leave the business when the patriarch of the family passed away over 10 years ago.

They did not "go out of business"...they chose to (as David said) "go with more passive investments"...as the matriarch of the family ages.

Not a bad guy but way off target when it came to E&B.

This is nonsense. Everyone liked E&B and wished them well...after all, the station changed format. No hard feelings anywhere. (I know you have a need to live in conspiracy theories of everyone who has wronged you...but you have a few notes...and you bring them to every song.....Gerry, Howie, Bleidt, E&B, Liberal Talk, Smyth.)


I know this is difficult to understand Yovi, not everyone holds a grudge, or wishes ill upon others.
 
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I don't know how anyone can say Greater Media failed, they were taking steps company wide to skew younger, and were doing a damn good job at it.

Their Boston stations have done pretty well, MJX was always near the top, WKLB too, WROR does well. WBOS is rumored to bill very well. As to 96.9.... well the failure there was the demise of talk radio IMHO.

If you were the ownership of Greater Media, and someone offered you good money for your properties, and you were looking to get out while the going was good, heck you'd sell too.

The value of radio stations isn't exactly appreciating these days, and if some of the big boys ( Cumulus, IHrt) run into trouble ( IMHO they are already in trouble) and have to divest properties to stay afloat, or worse go belly up dumping thousands of stations on the market, the value of a radio station is going to be even lower Cumulus stock is riding high at .46 a share today, and that is after a reverse 8 to 1 split last fall. CMLS was as low as 23 cents a share recently, making stocks held before last September worth 3 cents a share.

The owners and high ups at GM did very well for themselves in that deal.
The worker bees..... well they got screwed.

Morrissey Blvd is a ghost town now compared to when GM was running the show.
 
The owners and high ups at GM did very well for themselves in that deal.

If they had sold out a decade before, they likely would have gotten two to three times the money...
 
massive layoffs of long time employees on air and behind the scene at the time of sale


They did have some layoffs timed to the sale. However, I don't know about massive.

Seems their reductions have been in line with everyone elses from the 90's through the sale.

As of the sale date, they are probably down 27% from their peak employment in the 90's.

http://www.radioworld.com/business-and-law/0009/radio-jobs-down-27-over-25-years/336162

The number of radio broadcasting jobs fell about 27 percent from 1990 through early this year..."

The owners and high ups at GM did very well for themselves in that deal.

Many of them (higher-ups, especially at the corporate office) are out of jobs.
 
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In all media, someone else pays the bills.

Using that logic, someone else pays all my bills too, since I'm not the federal government and I cannot print my own money.

Donors don't give to stations they don't enjoy.

If I were buying commercial time on a for-profit station, I would expect a return on that investment, in the form of higher sales of the product I am advertising.

I do not expect the same when I donate money to a non-profit. I get the tax benefit of donating to a non profit, and perhaps some goodwill through name recognition in the community, the ability to point to my company's list of philanthropic endeavors, etc. Some of that may translate into higher sales, but the relationship is more tenuous and certainly more difficult to measure.

You make it sound like non-commercial stations are on welfare, and get free money for doing nothing. Not true.

That's not what I said. However, it is safe to say the business model of a non profit which has as its primary source of income government welfare and corporate donations is certainly going to be much different than a for-profit entity which has a customer base to satisfy.
 
Well who does WBUR demo aim for and who does WGBH aim for when it comes to Public News/Talk radio. I'm wondering about that mainly because when we talk about the All News competition of WCBS and WINS radio we say 880 WCBS aims for the New York Suburbs and 1010 Wins aims for New York City proper. Is there a dynamic like that in Boston between WGBH and WBUR?
 
Not that this is relevant in anyway but I'm a big fan of both On Point and Here and Now which is both produced by WBUR. I also like The World by WGBH as well as it's a nice contemporary version of NPR's all things considered. But it was the former that finally got me into public radio as of late. That said growing up seeing the WGBH logo at the end of most PBS shows produced by them means quality. Both are really great. It's like comparing Apples. Which do you like better Red or Green? Unlike corporate media, everyone wins with public media.
 
To me, the big difference could be that WBUR tries to bring both Boston and the world together; While WGBH is definitely more Boston friendly in it's general programming.
 
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