LA needs a proper AC/Variety radio station

[Radio Radio Listener]

iHeartMedia has got to have the worst AC radio stations around. Seriously, KOST still sounds relatively softer compared to other AC stations across the country that have modernized their playlists, despite having a "Feel Good" slogan. Too many 80s and not enough 90s or 00s, which is a shock considering that the median age of Los Angeles (or Southern California) isn't that high, and Southern California is not known to have a high percentage of retirees. Anyways, look at their playlist on Mediabase.

http://www.mediabase.com/mmrweb/7/stationplaylistrequest.asp?c_let=KOST-FM

Seriously, they are still playing "Dancing Queen" in 2017! There are also several baffling music decisions made here. "Under Pressure" is played despite only peaking at #29 on the Billboard Hot 100 (!). Some AC stations are having less 80s in rotation, yet here you see FOUR Blondie songs on their playlist. It also seems like songs like "How Deep Is Your Love," "Lady in Red," and "You're the One That I Want" still have rotation, it appears. Listening to this station, it does sound old.


Yet they couldn't play any of these songs despite the fact that they are hits (either in Billboard Hot 100 or the Adult Contemporary/Adult Pop charts):

- Vertical Horizon "Everything You Want"
- Matchbox Twenty "If You're Gone," "3AM"
- Sugar Ray "Fly," "Every Morning"
- TLC "No Scrubs," "Unpretty"
- Third Eye Blind "Semi-Charmed Life," "Jumper"
- Mariah Carey "Always Be My Baby," "Dreamlover," "We Belong Together"
- Lifehouse "Hanging By a Moment"
- Howie Day "Collide"
- Hootie and the Blowfish "Only Wanna Be With You"
- Goo Goo Dolls "Slide"
- Coldplay "Clocks," "Viva La Vida"
- Britney Spears "Baby, One More Time," "Toxic"
- Christina Aguilera "Genie In A Bottle," "What a Girl Wants"
- Alanis Morissette "Ironic", "Head Over Feet"
- *NSYNC "Bye Bye Bye"
- Justin Timberlake "Rock Your Body," "Sexyback"
- Lisa Loeb "Stay (I Missed You)"

Many cities have AC stations have at least some of these songs in rotation, but NOT Los Angeles! Sure, My FM is the less softer AC (Hot AC) and may play a few of the above songs.. However, that particular station plays several songs that aren't exactly hits, which is another issue for another time. Also, Jack FM plays a few, at most, of the songs on the above list, which strengthens my point that LA needs another Adult Contemporary / Variety station, although it may admittedly be difficult to find which station to flip.

I have a feeling that KOST may possibly have poor billing numbers, especially since their playlist sounds too old, and one must target 25-54 or 18-34 in order to be successful. And they need to take notes from Cumulus, Entercom, Cox, etc. on how to run a proper Adult Contemporary station in 2017. The AC stations from these companies, in general, sound infinitely better than the ones from iHeartMedia. (Ironically, Cox used to own KOST.)

 

[TheBigA]

I have a feeling that KOST may possibly have poor billing numbers,

Last time I checked KOST was in the Top 5 for billings. iHeart had four of the Top 5.

 

[davideduardo]

iHeartMedia has got to have the worst AC radio stations around. Seriously, KOST still sounds relatively softer compared to other AC stations across the country that have modernized their playlists, despite having a "Feel Good" slogan. Too many 80s and not enough 90s or 00s, which is a shock considering that the median age of Los Angeles (or Southern California) isn't that high, and Southern California is not known to have a high percentage of retirees. Anyways, look at their playlist on Mediabase.

The median age in the LA MSA is about the same as that in Kansas City or Indianapolis. What makes the median seem a bit lower than, let's say, Buffalo, is the huge Hispanic population (42% of the metro now) wherein the average age is lower due to larger family size.

The fact is that the non-Hispanic white population has about the same characteristics as Phoenix or Orlando or Houston. However, KOST tries to appeal to Hispanics as well as non-Hispanics and thus they make the playlist truly representative of a target audience that is on average 40% Hispanic. So, if the KOST research finds that there are certain songs that score badly with Hispanics, they simply won't play them.

Seriously, they are still playing "Dancing Queen" in 2017! There are also several baffling music decisions made here. "Under Pressure" is played despite only peaking at #29 on the Billboard Hot 100 (!). Some AC stations are having less 80s in rotation, yet here you see FOUR Blondie songs on their playlist. It also seems like songs like "How Deep Is Your Love," "Lady in Red," and "You're the One That I Want" still have rotation, it appears. Listening to this station, it does sound old.

They do regular music tests. If I find songs that my market and my P1s like, I play them. It does not matter if they are not being played in another market.

KOST is 7th in 25-54 using a trailing three book average and it is 6th in 35-44. Keep in mind that iHeart has a Wall of Women with overlapping bricks consisting of KIIS, KBIG and KOST. KOST's job is to deliver 35-54, and it does a good job of doing that.

Yet they couldn't play any of these songs despite the fact that they are hits (either in Billboard Hot 100 or the Adult Contemporary/Adult Pop charts):

Those songs obviously don't meet the criteria for KOST based on local research and local programmers. The national charts are "consensus" tabulations. There is no requirement to follow them (and most stations don't),

Many cities have AC stations have at least some of these songs in rotation, but NOT Los Angeles!

Other cities don't have the demographics of LA. 42% Hispanic, 8% African American, 12% Asian, and another 15% foreign born from places like Russia and Iran. That mans that three-quarters of the population is not from the traditional AC target that you might be aiming for in Grand Rapids or Wichita. And that means that the folks at iHeart are very smart in tailoring KOST to the market, not some national charts.

I have a feeling that KOST may possibly have poor billing numbers, especially since their playlist sounds too old, and one must target 25-54 or 18-34 in order to be successful.

As big A says, the station is Top 5 in billings, and ended last year at 4th overall.

And they need to take notes from Cumulus, Entercom, Cox, etc. on how to run a proper Adult Contemporary station in 2017. The AC stations from these companies, in general, sound infinitely better than the ones from iHeartMedia.

They take their notes from the local target audience, and it works very well. The iHeart music FMs bill $200 million a year, and the cluster (with 3 AMs) takes in just over 1/3 of all radio revenue in the market. They really don't need to take notes from anyone based on the performance of the LA cluster.

 

[Radio Radio Listener]

Other cities don't have the demographics of LA. 42% Hispanic, 8% African American, 12% Asian, and another 15% foreign born from places like Russia and Iran. That mans that three-quarters of the population is not from the traditional AC target that you might be aiming for in Grand Rapids or Wichita. And that means that the folks at iHeart are very smart in tailoring KOST to the market, not some national charts.

Wouldn't a more ethnic composition be more receptive towards a more rhythmic sound, if not some of the popular pop-rock songs listed? It certainly is evident in New York, where WPLJ plays several rhythmic pop songs from the 80s/90s/00s/10s to compete with very popular WKTU, and WNEW (Fresh 102.7) sounds a tad less modern AC these days. Even iHeart-owned WLTW is more receptive of rhythmic tracks than the average iHeartMedia station. And even they are playing some of the songs that I feel KOST has omitted, and New York City isn't flyover country last time I checked. Perhaps AC listeners in the West Coast in general, not just Los Angeles, are more receptive towards slower songs and 80s synthpop as opposed to big pop-rock tracks or even uptempo Hip-Hop/R&B songs from the 90s/00s?

Anyways, I find it unusual for an over 40% Hispanic market like Los Angeles to have two commercial alternative rock stations, whereas New York has no commercial alternative station. Even Boston's sole commercial alternative station, WBOS, is pulling an under-2 share, even lower than WAAF which has a weaker signal in Boston proper whilst WBOS transmits in the center of Boston atop Prudential Tower. It's not like New York or Boston do not have heritage stations in the past, as New York had K-Rock and Boston had WFNX and WBCN. And even pop stations like adult hits KCBS (Jack FM) and hot adult contemporary KBIG (My FM) have some modern rock tendencies, playing alternative songs that aren't even hit songs!

I also find it unusual when I heard that KOST was the 4th highest billing station. A bit in contrast to a market like Tampa Bay, where WDUV, a soft AC station, is a consistent #1 in the ratings, but isn't reliably in the Top 10 radio stations for billing, if so.

 

[TheBigA]

I find it unusual for an over 40% Hispanic market like Los Angeles to have two commercial alternative rock stations, whereas New York has no commercial alternative station.

If either of those stations ever change formats, I don't expect anyone to jump in and replace it. Those are heritage stations with heritage audiences. Had WNEW-FM or K-Rock stayed with some form of rock format, they might still be on the air, although they would get a 2 share. That's the pattern we've seen in other cities. That's the problem with alternative rock. The format isn't strong enough to attract new listeners to traditional radio, because it's better suited for either non-commercial radio or some form of streaming. So New York will probably never have a commercial alternative station because there are two non-coms doing a great job.

 

[Radio Radio Listener]

If either of those stations ever change formats, I don't expect anyone to jump in and replace it. Those are heritage stations with heritage audiences. Had WNEW-FM or K-Rock stayed with some form of rock format, they might still be on the air, although they would get a 2 share. That's the pattern we've seen in other cities. That's the problem with alternative rock. The format isn't strong enough to attract new listeners to traditional radio, because it's better suited for either non-commercial radio or some form of streaming. So New York will probably never have a commercial alternative station because there are two non-coms doing a great job.

I think another factor for the underperformance of modern rock radio is that there are less new, compelling content from the rock world. Many of today's artisans seem to be within the Hip-Hop and R&B genres.

 

[TheBigA]

I think another factor for the underperformance of modern rock radio is that there are less new, compelling content from the rock world. Many of today's artisans seem to be within the Hip-Hop and R&B genres.

I agree. So much of the current rock sounds extremely derivative. Nothing new in years. So you have fans of specific artists who only want to hear those artists, and not many who have any interest in the genre as a whole. I really blame the record labels, who seem to have forgotten how to do A&R and artist development in this genre. Meanwhile, other genres are creating exciting new music that is attracting lots of younger listeners.

 

[CTListener]

Even Boston's sole commercial alternative station, WBOS, is pulling an under-2 share, even lower than WAAF which has a weaker signal in Boston proper whilst WBOS transmits in the center of Boston atop Prudential Tower.

WAAF is mainstream active rock, featuring acts with larger followings than the alt bunch. Both are handicapped by CHR's resistance to anything non-rhythmic. That both alt and active rock are generally turn-offs to female listeners is likely a big factor in that. Stations are more willing to gamble that men will tolerate Katy Perry so they can hear Kanye than that women will tolerate Foo Fighters so they can hear Beyonce.

 

[CTListener]

I agree. So much of the current rock sounds extremely derivative. Nothing new in years. So you have fans of specific artists who only want to hear those artists, and not many who have any interest in the genre as a whole. I really blame the record labels, who seem to have forgotten how to do A&R and artist development in this genre. Meanwhile, other genres are creating exciting new music that is attracting lots of younger listeners.

I see a genre that has run its course.

 

[TheBigA]

I see a genre that has run its course.

That may be. In the past, rock was flexible enough to adapt and evolve, sometimes into variations of itself, like country rock or metal. But there has to be some money in it to make it worthwhile. Right now, the only real revenue stream for rock artists is touring. It's hard to build a consistent radio format around a genre like that. Artists who want to make a better living find themselves moving to other genres.

 

[davideduardo]

Wouldn't a more ethnic composition be more receptive towards a more rhythmic sound, if not some of the popular pop-rock songs listed?

It depends on the target. Hispanics of the second generation and beyond in LA grew up with KHJ, KIIS and KROQ as well as with Power and The Beat.

Anyways, I find it unusual for an over 40% Hispanic market like Los Angeles to have two commercial alternative rock stations, whereas New York has no commercial alternative station.

KROQ has been a force in LA for going on 40 years. And it has always played to the market, not the national charts. Since one of Mexico City's top stations is an Alternative format broadcaster (and it may be the highest biller in the market) it shows that alternative, done with a real market focus, can cross that particular ethnic barrier with considerable ease. And Alt 98.7 began as and alternative AC with Ryan Seacrest two decades ago, so it has considerable heritage and great market understanding; it appears that the recent winning KYSR strategy has been to beat KROQ among Hispanics to gain a cume edge.

Both KROQ and KYSR index close to the same percentage of Hispanic listeners as the market's English dominant population percentage. They do just great with Hispanics.

New York never had a "World Famos KROQ" equivalent. There is little heritage, and the Hispanic population in NYC is mostly Caribbean in origin, raised in an environment of Afro Antillean music like salsa, merengue, cumbia and vallenato. There is no cultural heritage commonality with most Hispanics in LA.

And even pop stations like adult hits KCBS (Jack FM) and hot adult contemporary KBIG (My FM) have some modern rock tendencies, playing alternative songs that aren't even hit songs!

Those songs are obviously "hits" with those station's audiences and obviously test like hits so they play them as the hits they are. To those station's credit, they are listening to local listeners.

My definition of a hit: whatever my station's listeners want to hear!

I also find it unusual when I heard that KOST was the 4th highest billing station. A bit in contrast to a market like Tampa Bay, where WDUV, a soft AC station, is a consistent #1 in the ratings, but isn't reliably in the Top 10 radio stations for billing, if so.

You are describing WDUV a half-decade ago. A lot has changed.

WDUV evolved into a more mainstream, albeit conservative, AC in the last few years. Before that, it had been s standards / AC hybrid, with 90% of the listening over 65. Based on Cox's initial blunder with WFEZ in Miami and that station's conversion from soft AC to more mainstream, they pushed WDUV into a much more 25-54 position. WDUV is now well inside the top 5 in billings (#3 last year) and has averaged in the top 5 in 25-54 for a while.

KOST was never a 65+ station, so it had no "blue haired ladies" image to shed. It has simply adapted over time to remain a 25-54 play, and fits magnificently in the LA market.

 

[Radio Radio Listener]

David, you really do have great, detailed insight. But I am curious on why Los Angeles is less receptive towards Rhythmic ACs or Rhythmic AC-leaning Hot ACs/ACs, especially since LA is heavily Hispanic, a demographic normally more receptive towards rhythmic music than average.


KBIG plays multiple non-hit (at least not in the traditional sense) alternative songs, sometimes at the expense of popular 90s/2000s "throwback" songs (with throwbacks becoming a trend, especially among millennials), yet rates #1 in the market. KOST still hangs on to some softer songs from the 70s/80s, in a time when Adult Contemporary, as a whole, is trending 2000-present nationwide, both in conservative and liberal markets. KTWV plays something like a Quiet Storm-flavored Smooth AC (classified as an Urban AC, but many Urban ACs at present-day have a tendency to play old-school/throwback hip-hop, as the 25-44 demographic is more receptive to rap). KIIS doesn't sound as rhythmic as 10 years ago; it is still a pretty rhythmic station, but they now have a higher tendency to play some non-rhythmic tracks compared to before. KRTH is classified as a "classic hits" station, but sometimes plays artists like The Smiths, which is unheard of for a station in that format. Yet all of these stations are within the Top 5 in the ratings, or at least very close to it if not so. Los Angeles really is an unusual place when it comes to commercial radio. Even with iHeart, CBS (soon Entercom), etc. owning the stations, the stations are programmed differently compared to most of the country, at times sounding rather "hipster" or more mellow (depending on radio format). A slight counterexample to the notion that a radio company programs every station, within a particular format, the same way in every city.

 

[davideduardo]

A slight counterexample to the notion that a radio company programs every station, within a particular format, the same way in every city.

That is the answer to your question. Dan Mason's CBS let local programmers do local research and implement based on local findings, thus the KRTH sound. iHeart has let the LA stations do the same thing, and Andrew and the rest of the team there have found the key to having 4 very successful FMs by doing what the local listeners told them.

 

[TheBigA]

A slight counterexample to the notion that a radio company programs every station, within a particular format, the same way in every city.

To be honest I don't know anyone who does that now. Cumulus did it for a while, but it didn't work. Radio stations are programmed locally for a reason. They're successful.

 

[Radio Radio Listener]

To be honest I don't know anyone who does that now. Cumulus did it for a while, but it didn't work. Radio stations are programmed locally for a reason. They're successful.

iHeartMedia does apply Premium Choice for multitudes of their stations, along with voicetracked DJs. Given today's technology, no sole radio station is known to be the first station to play a soon-to-be-hit. It's evidenced by artists promoting a new song on iHeartMedia stations simultaneously.

I usually think that CBS Radio Classic Hits stations are the only ones with variability based on city. The rest I would perceive as the head honchos of the radio stations' owners dictating the playlist, focusing only on tried and true songs, songs that make the top of the charts. WLEV in Allentown, Pennsylvania and WMEZ in Pensacola, Florida, for example, sound little different from each other, as Cumulus stations. Do Top 40s WFLZ in Tampa Bay and WHYI in Miami sound that different from each other, as iHeart stations? And I also see KJSN and KSOF picking up gold tracks from KOST, even though the Central Valley isn't the same as Los Angeles.

 

[TheBigA]

iHeartMedia does apply Premium Choice for multitudes of their stations, along with voicetracked DJs.

Not in any major markets and not at stations that are making their budgets. They have lots of stations in small markets that are still locally programmed, because they are top rated and making tons of money. The ones that don't use Premium Choice.

 

[davideduardo]

iHeartMedia does apply Premium Choice for multitudes of their stations, along with voicetracked DJs. Given today's technology, no sole radio station is known to be the first station to play a soon-to-be-hit. It's evidenced by artists promoting a new song on iHeartMedia stations simultaneously.

Premium Choice is not a format or format provider. It is essentially a set of workparts that stations download to local digital storage systems and run with the local music log, local commercial log and any local news and service elements. Think of it as an FTP service with tons of stuff to download, only some of which you can use.

Seacrest is offered in the Premium Choice menu. The "kibbles and bits" segments can be combined in formats ranging from CHR to traditional AC, in the number of hourly events the station wants and even in the hours or dayparts that best fit.

I usually think that CBS Radio Classic Hits stations are the only ones with variability based on city. The rest I would perceive as the head honchos of the radio stations' owners dictating the playlist, focusing only on tried and true songs, songs that make the top of the charts. WLEV in Allentown, Pennsylvania and WMEZ in Pensacola, Florida, for example, sound little different from each other, as Cumulus stations. Do Top 40s WFLZ in Tampa Bay and WHYI in Miami sound that different from each other, as iHeart stations? And I also see KJSN and KSOF picking up gold tracks from KOST, even though the Central Valley isn't the same as Los Angeles.

In most formats, the big hits are the same everywhere, thanks to TV and the Internet. The differences are often in the deeper parts of the library and in rotations, and are based on local music testing in the big markets and use of those tests by smaller stations that look at similar larger markets in the same company since they can't afford a couple of $40 k AMTs or tens of thousands a year for callout. Further, the kinds of competition each station in each market has dictate, to some extent, the focus of individual formats... hotter rotations, more or less gold, different dayparting criteria, playlist depth, speed in adding currents and all the other variables.

 

[robnokshus06]

I think another factor for the underperformance of modern rock radio is that there are less new, compelling content from the rock world. Many of today's artisans seem to be within the Hip-Hop and R&B genres.

There is no shortage of new, compelling alternative music. It just doesn't get played on the radio.

 

[TheBigA]

There is no shortage of new, compelling alternative music. It just doesn't get played on the radio.

If so, why are there no promotion people extolling the virtues of said music? That's what happens in all other genres.

Music doesn't just get played on the radio. There is a process that makes it happen. Alternative, by definition, chooses not to work that way.

 

[boombox4]

If so, why are there no promotion people extolling the virtues of said music? That's what happens in all other genres.

Music doesn't just get played on the radio. There is a process that makes it happen. Alternative, by definition, chooses not to work that way.

Perhaps because they concentrate on the hip-hop and pop artists, because that they know for sure that it will make them money?

Record companies didn't jump onto the grunge bandwagon (which led to an alternative boom in general) until Nirvana had a hit with it in 1991. But it was known around in Seattle for 5 years by then, and two of the bands had recorded major albums in 1989. To those of us who were aware of the scene (including those who were part of the radio end of it) it looked like the record companies started noticing the grunge/alt genre as soon as it was proved that it could make them money.