I managed to hit the wrong tab and signed myself off from RD last night, taking my post with it. I'm going to say KKCW Beaverton OR on 103.3 during some tropospheric ducting events.
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What do you think you could get if you were...
- Thread starter Buckeyes2001
- Start date
As another idea, what would be the closest you could get to one of the non-directional 50kW Class A Clear stations around sunrise/sunset, and have it completely covered (uncopyable and un-DX-able) by a co-channel station on day facilities? (Also midwinter midday skip counts, too.) Only include stations licensed within the USA - no Canadians, Cubans, Mexicans, etc. Bonus points if you're close enough to the Class A for it to trip the seek on an average radio at midday in summer, better yet if most female friends (great-grandmas to wives to great-granddaughters, cousins, aunts, nieces, etc) consider it to be perfectly listenable. (I'm referring to midday summer reception of the Class A.)In such a case, what might be the location, the offending Class D (or Class B) station, and the affected Class A?
Thought I'd revive this tangent as well...I'll put in Onawa IA, along I-29 about 65 miles east of WJAG 780 Norfolk NE and about 450 miles west of WBBM. WBBM might still be copyable underneath WJAG, but it would be tough to null out WJAG given Onawa is near the direct axis between the two stations.
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Where were you responding to anything on 103.3? Beaverton to Sacramento would be a heck of a stretch, though probably doable in extremely strong cases. As for the 103.5 frequency in question, probably KLDZ in Medford, OR, though you'd probably need some tropo to do that.
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This may be a longshot, but any chance of an Illinois signal on 94.9 making it to Muskegon, perhaps even for more than DX occasions? I'm thinking WDKB DeKalb, IL, or MAYBE even WAAG 94.9 Galesburg, IL.
Here's another one:
102.7 in St. Charles, MO (if KEZK was momentarily off the air or splatter successfully nulled)
102.7 in St. Charles, MO (if KEZK was momentarily off the air or splatter successfully nulled)
And a different twist to this thread, while testing your knowledge of early TV history and allocations. And from the "which signal was most likely, if any" department:
TV Channel 8 about 2 miles northwest of the small town of Brimfield, IL (between Peoria and Galesburg) any time from the period August 1955-July 1963.
All of this during the fight over the original channel 8 allocation for Peoria--which was later moved to Moline, IL (when the FCC decided to make Peoria an all-UHF market other than for the Quad Cities and Champaign V's making reception appearances in the immediate Peoria area) and signed on as WQAD Aug. 1, 1963.
On Google Maps, the pinpointed mark is roughly the area of my hypothetical question of what might have appeared on Channel 8 there from Aug. 1955-July 1963.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.856941,-89.8583926,12.83z
TV Channel 8 about 2 miles northwest of the small town of Brimfield, IL (between Peoria and Galesburg) any time from the period August 1955-July 1963.
All of this during the fight over the original channel 8 allocation for Peoria--which was later moved to Moline, IL (when the FCC decided to make Peoria an all-UHF market other than for the Quad Cities and Champaign V's making reception appearances in the immediate Peoria area) and signed on as WQAD Aug. 1, 1963.
On Google Maps, the pinpointed mark is roughly the area of my hypothetical question of what might have appeared on Channel 8 there from Aug. 1955-July 1963.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.856941,-89.8583926,12.83z
MAYBE then-KRNT from Des Moines or WKBT from LaCrosse, WI might have been able to ride in from time to time when atmospheric conditions were favorable. Both were using tall towers in the years immediately leading up to 1963. I snagged WKBT once about ten miles from my current location before WQAD come into existence. Captain Kangaroo, Mister Greenjeans, Bunny Rabbit, and Grandfather Clock were all there.
Possibly, or WOOD-TV from Grand Rapids
I will try to answer my own question, based on my experience (albeit growing up in the 80s/90s), since I grew up near that general area and experienced my own fair share of exciting DX and tropo moments on my own bedroom TV growing up (13-inch 1989 model RCA with the rabbit ears/bowtie that came with the TV in my bedroom, then "power" antennas later. Plus the family TV).
In addition to the usual Peoria and Quad Cities (plus frequent nighttime appearances by Quincy/Hannibal and Decatur/Springfield/Champaign, plus the Illinois-Iowa rivalry for Channel 12 supremacy; and Cedar Rapids/Waterloo and Chicago UHF's several times a month), I have received all major Des Moines stations except KCCI (because of WQAD--although I have seen interference attempts on 8 possibly due to KCCI or other 8's), WHO coming in the "best" of them (I have even seen WOI and KDSM). I've also seen Indy and Jefferson City on 13 before, plus Eau Claire (even though Rockford was most common on 13 between Peoria and Galesburg). I don't remember ever seeing "CEE-TV" (WCEE Mt. Vernon, IL now WPXS), however.
If I was to guess what was most common to appear on 8 near Brimfield, IL on 750-foot farmland around 1956 with a good TV and good antenna tower with rotor on channel 8, but had to choose one channel--my first guess, based on my DX/tropo experience, would be KRNT. Plus if similar conditions existed after Aug. 1, 1963 after WQAD signed off for the night or was off the air temporarily due to technical problems.
Interestingly, this area (in both the analog and digital era) was the southeastern extent of WQAD's Grade A circle--within 25 miles of the WTVH/WIRL/WRAU/WHOI tower in Creve Coeur, IL. Because of WQAD's transmitter site in Orion, IL.
I'm surprised the Peoria stations never put up much of a fight over some of the Quad Cities' stations decision to transmit from Orion (which itself is 30 miles or so north of Galesburg), since a full-power signal from Orion can put Grade A signals into northwestern Peoria County and making those QC signals look like locals on the doorstep of Peoria. Even WHBF-TV broadcast from Orion for years until the 1980s on channel 4 before moving to Bettendorf--not to mention KWQC's digital tranny from Orion after analog from Bettendorf since their Day One as WOC Channel 5 on Halloween 1949.
But if Peoria had successfully snagged a VHF pre-freeze (like what happened in the QCs with WOC and WHBF), I sometimes wonder if the Peoria and Quad Cities markets could have merged a la Springfield-Decatur-Champaign (with another V, perhaps channel 8 itself, assigned to Galesburg in a similar role to WAND-17 Decatur for Springfield and Champaign). But with Bloomington probably going to the Champaign/Springfield DMA instead in such a scenario, however.
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Here's another "what might have been more likely to have been received in where in what year" TV question:
Channel 2 in 1956 at a farmhouse near Route 66 about 15 miles south of downtown Springfield, IL
During another Illinois FCC VHF/UHF deintermixture crisis: the move of the Channel 2 allocation out of Springfield, IL and to St. Louis (where it became KTVI). Plus being able to shoehorn another channel 2 for Terre Haute (becoming WTWO in 1965). The same FCC decision which moved Channel 8 from Peoria to Moline also claimed the Channel 2 allocation for Springfield.
My initial guess might have been WBBM, but I'm wondering if southwest of Springfield WMT Cedar Rapids, IA or even KFEQ (now KQTV) St. Joseph might have been more frequent than WBBM down here. And of course all the tropo. Other thoughts and guesses?
Channel 2 in 1956 at a farmhouse near Route 66 about 15 miles south of downtown Springfield, IL
During another Illinois FCC VHF/UHF deintermixture crisis: the move of the Channel 2 allocation out of Springfield, IL and to St. Louis (where it became KTVI). Plus being able to shoehorn another channel 2 for Terre Haute (becoming WTWO in 1965). The same FCC decision which moved Channel 8 from Peoria to Moline also claimed the Channel 2 allocation for Springfield.
My initial guess might have been WBBM, but I'm wondering if southwest of Springfield WMT Cedar Rapids, IA or even KFEQ (now KQTV) St. Joseph might have been more frequent than WBBM down here. And of course all the tropo. Other thoughts and guesses?
Those three would probably have been most likely, with WLWD Dayton and possibly WJBK Detroit and WBAY Green Bay also showing up from time to time. To the south, the only 2's that were on at the time would have been WBRZ Baton Rouge and WSB Atlanta (WDCN came on in 1962, KETS came on in 1966, and WMAB didn't come on until 1971)
WLW-D was not the only Midwestern station on Channel 2 that used a hyphen in their call letters during its history. WTWO Terre Haute, prior to about the early 1990s, frequently identified as "W-TWO." Including on their news, station IDs, and in TV Guide listings.
Just thought of KOMU Columbia, MO as another pre-Aug. 1963 Channel 8 possibility in that part of west central Illinois (between Peoria and Galesburg). Maybe just as often, if not even more frequent, than KRNT (now KCCI) or the other forementioned 8's.
I drive through there several times a year on the way to Indiana (ever since US 30 got upgraded to freeway between I-71 and I-75 it's become a great and little-known alternative to the Oh Tpk), and the answer is "not much." Burgettsville PA (which is really Steubenville) pops in, as does WMUZ from Detroit, but otherwise it's just a typically open channel of the kind that doesn't exist much in urban areas. It's just a smidge too close to WCKY-FM on 103.7 to be a useful translator channel in Ontario/Mansfield.
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