• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Winter 2018 book

F

flybynight

Well, well, well. WBEN lands on TOP with a 9.8 share overall. WOW! While the rest of the nation's newstalkers are foundering, deservedly so, WBEN pulls a 9.8 outa their butt.

From that can we assume people are leaving radio altogether at a faster rate than WBEN's listeners are dying off?

And then there's all the rest.

Oh, and WECK didn't show. Is that because Buddy didn't buy the book or because nobody who listens to WECK got a diary?
 
flybynight said:
Oh, and WECK didn't show. Is that because Buddy didn't buy the book or because nobody who listens to WECK got a diary?
Click to expand...

Buddy has already posted that he does not buy the Winter and the Summer books and does not get the monthly continuous measurement trends. So only subscribers and agencies get his winter numbers.
 
Cumulus must not be buying the Winter book, as none of their stations are listed. When you're bankrupt, it's hard to find money for Nielsen.

KB and ALT Buffalo continue to occupy the basement. Lots of electricity all for naught. WBEN and WYRK had huge swings in opposite directions. Maybe nursing homes got all the diaries.

WBFO is never listed on the public ratings, but they announced they had a very successful membership drive...
 
Your right, Buddy did not by the winter book, but Buddy knows the numbers. Up in everything! 2.5 12 plus. Right behind wmsx and wbuf.
 
tbolt909 said:
Cumulus must not be buying the Winter book, as none of their stations are listed. When you're bankrupt, it's hard to find money for Nielsen.
Click to expand...

Or you are in a market that does not have enough transactional business to warrant buying four books.

Oh, and Cumulus has plenty of money based on operations. They are quite profitable on an EBITDA / Cash Flow basis. Their only issue is corporate debt, and they are going to emerge in the next couple of months from Chapter 11 reorganization with a sustainable debt load and a nice profit overall.

KB and ALT Buffalo continue to occupy the basement. Lots of electricity all for naught.
Click to expand...

If you think electricity is a significant expense item, you are not in broadcasting.

Alt's transmitter site, tower lights and all, likely pays around $1,000 a month in electric bills. That is on a station reported as billing around $50,000 a month.

WBEN and WYRK had huge swings in opposite directions. Maybe nursing homes got all the diaries.
Click to expand...

There is a margin of error in all surveys. Buffalo has a relatively small sample size, so the wobble can be great.

In any case, every age group is sampled proportionally and any discrepancies in sample are compensated for by weighting.

WBFO is never listed on the public ratings, but they announced they had a very successful membership drive...
Click to expand...

So? They choose not to subscribe as they probably don't see a return on the investment.
 
Last edited:
Eduardo should know that WBFO is a Nielsen subscriber. Their ratings are just not listed publicly. NPR stations in larger markets are often listed. The NPR affiliate in San Francisco is #1. WBFO has seen membership and ratings growth in recent years...
 
tbolt909 said:
Eduardo should know that WBFO is a Nielsen subscriber. Their ratings are just not listed publicly. NPR stations in larger markets are often listed. The NPR affiliate in San Francisco is #1. WBFO has seen membership and ratings growth in recent years...
Click to expand...

Indeed, WBFO is a subsciber for the Fall, 2017 survey. It does not appear on the subscriber website listings (nor does Mr Shula's station) for the Winter survey.

If a station is subscribed, the data released publicly for its market includes that station, whether commercial or non-commercial. There is no published procedure or, indeed, option whereby a subscribed station can remain "unlisted" in the public data release of 6+/12+ share and cume data.

NPR and other non-commercial stations appear in the public releases if they are subscribed. If they are not, they do not appear. Same as commercial stations.

And if a station is subscribed to less than the full services in a market, they are listed only in the books / periods they pay for.

Of course, we've seen over the years occasional omissions from the listings that individual websites publish. That neither indicates a Nielsen error nor a statement about the status of the station that is omitted.
 
Last edited:
DavidEduardo said:


Indeed, WBFO is a subsciber for the Fall, 2017 survey. It does not appear on the subscriber website listings (nor does Mr Shula's station) for the Winter survey.

If a station is subscribed, the data released publicly for its market includes that station, whether commercial or non-commercial. There is no published procedure or, indeed, option whereby a subscribed station can remain "unlisted" in the public data release of 6+/12+ share and cume data.

NPR and other non-commercial stations appear in the public releases if they are subscribed. If they are not, they do not appear. Same as commercial stations.

And if a station is subscribed to less than the full services in a market, they are listed only in the books / periods they pay for.

Of course, we've seen over the years occasional omissions from the listings that individual websites publish. That neither indicates a Nielsen error nor a statement about the status of the station that is omitted.
Click to expand...

Great points David. Electricity is not a huge expense, compared to other things. As far as subscribing to ratings, WECK subscribes to Spring and Fall. I know what Winter and Summer ratings are, I just cannot use them on the streets. Overall, in the WECK situation, I think subscribing to Neilson is a good thing. It has already paid back in spades as our ratings are very decent for a small company in a medium market. WECK must have the ability to prove itself, as this was never done in the past before I owned it. SO in my opinion, Neilson gives me a good barometer of how our programming is doing. In our case, because our ad rates are relatively low, Neilson shows that we are extremely cost effective for 50 plus.
 
Buddy, a 2.5 12+. How do you look in your target demo of 55+. Is the station showing significant gains there? Personally, I think the music has improved considerably in the past couple of months.
 
https://ratings.****************/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb037


Winter book, Persons 12+ numbers. No big deal. WYRK and WBLK in all likelihood still own Persons 25-54 and 35-64. Star, Kiss and 97 Rock probably doing quite well too in the money demos. WHTT, WBEN probably dominating 35-64 and 50+. Just for the record, a 2.5 isn't a 4 share. Enjoy the 12+ buzz. The ratings period that really counts is going on now through June. Let's talk some time in July.
 
Last edited:
Element9 said:
https://ratings.****************/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb037


Winter book, Persons 12+ numbers. No big deal. WYRK and WBLK in all likelihood still own Persons 25-54 and 35-64. Star, Kiss and 97 Rock probably doing quite well too in the money demos. WHTT, WBEN probably dominating 35-64 and 50+. Just for the record, a 2.5 isn't a 4 share. Enjoy the 12+ buzz. The ratings period that really counts is going on now through June. Let's talk some time in July.
Click to expand...

All ratings periods count. Just FYI, WECK has over a 5 share 50 plus. So if you are interested in that 4 share number and our demo, we beat it. The 4.0 12 plus will be coming, infact make it a 4.5 share. The 2.5 is without our new frequency. The new one is now on. It will make a difference. You seem to be a big know it all, but know nothing about reality.
 
Buddy Shula said:
All ratings periods count. Just FYI, WECK has over a 5 share 50 plus. So if you are interested in that 4 share number and our demo, we beat it. The 4.0 12 plus will be coming, infact make it a 4.5 share. The 2.5 is without our new frequency. The new one is now on. It will make a difference. You seem to be a big know it all, but know nothing about reality.
Click to expand...

I've had a mantra I've had to repeat to people over the years. "Ratings mean nothing; billings mean everything." If you have and can prove a loyal listener base, and sell spots to advertisers who want to reach that listener base, you will do great. Meanwhile, if you have the best numbers in the world and you can't sell them, they do no good.

If you're happy, and your listeners are happy, and your advertisers are happy, then that's all that matters. Congratulations.
 
pab said:
If you're happy, and your listeners are happy, and your advertisers are happy, then that's all that matters. Congratulations.
Click to expand...

And Element9 does not seem to know that the key factor in non-transactional markets is not ratings, it is client service. The station that maintains the best client relationship and gets traffic for the client will also get renewals.
 
Buddy Shula said:
All ratings periods count. Just FYI, WECK has over a 5 share 50 plus. So if you are interested in that 4 share number and our demo, we beat it. The 4.0 12 plus will be coming, infact make it a 4.5 share. The 2.5 is without our new frequency. The new one is now on. It will make a difference. You seem to be a big know it all, but know nothing about reality.
Click to expand...
You seem to be a bit high strung, Bud. Nobody's questioning your motives. Reality? I know enough to know I'm still learning. How 'bout you? Hope you had a nice vacation in Key West.
 
DavidEduardo said:


And Element9 does not seem to know that the key factor in non-transactional markets is not ratings, it is client service. The station that maintains the best client relationship and gets traffic for the client will also get renewals.
Click to expand...
Right, Mr. Gleason. That's a known-known, to quote a certain SecDef. The fact is, in Buffalo, there isn't any one station or owner that has a corner on "client service" in non-transactional business. Entercom excels at it to this day, as do a number of sales reps at other clusters who could easily sell numbers, but prefer, to quote a certain poster here, to sell the cash register.
 
Buddy needs a reality check. WECK has averaged a 2 share over the past year. His wild boasts of a 4 or 5 share is not "reality based". The Lawrence Welk fare that his station offers won't double the ratings. WECK can serve a niche with 60+ demos and get results for certain clients. Some salesmen have a reputation for "over promising & under delivering"...
 
tbolt909 said:
Buddy needs a reality check. WECK has averaged a 2 share over the past year. His wild boasts of a 4 or 5 share is not "reality based". The Lawrence Welk fare that his station offers won't double the ratings. WECK can serve a niche with 60+ demos and get results for certain clients. Some salesmen have a reputation for "over promising & under delivering"...
Click to expand...

Some people post speculation and call it "reality based". Why do you care how Buddy does? Whether he succeeds or not you'll still be sore.
 
tbolt909 said:
Some salesmen have a reputation for "over promising & under delivering"...
Click to expand...

That sort of remark is an unfortunate perpetuation of the WKRP and Herb Tarlek setereotype.

Salespeople who don't deliver for the client don't get renewals. Owners, managers and sales managers look at the statistics, and don't keep sellers around when they consistently don't get renewals.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom