WFAN....AM & FM?

[Wimmmex]

I am not in the market, but maybe someone can explain something to me...

How does WFAN manage to simulcast 660AM on a full signal FM 101.9?

I thought there were regulations about simulcasting in major markets...unless it's a translator, or something like that.

In Boston....WEEI moved to FM....and simulcasted for awhile...but then split it off with seperate programming.

Have the rules changed?

Thanks!

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Have the rules changed?

Yes. The simulcast rule began in 1968, and was repealed at least 20 years ago.

 

[davideduardo]

Yes. The simulcast rule began in 1968, and was repealed at least 20 years ago.

Exact date when most AM/FM simulcasts were required to end was 1/1/1967. Exceptions were daytimers (as big as WPGC AM adn FM in the DC market), a few waivers for special formats (WHOM in New York, for example) and small markets.

 

[KeithE4]

Exact date when most AM/FM simulcasts were required to end was 1/1/1967. Exceptions were daytimers (as big as WPGC AM adn FM in the DC market), a few waivers for special formats (WHOM in New York, for example) and small markets.

Phoenix alone had several, going well into the '80s in some cases, and not all being AM daytimers: KMEO 740/96.9, KUPD 1060/97.9, KBUZ 1310/104.7, KDOT 1440/100.7, KDKB 1510/93.3, and KTUF 1580/KNIX 102.5. KUPD and KBUZ were not AM daytimers, although the others were. I wonder if they were able to get away with it because all save for KMEO (a low-powered Phoenix daytimer then) and KNIX were licensed to suburbs, and not Phoenix itself.

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

@ Wimmex :

I hope not to be confusing, but in occasional ratings books you see things such as 'WFAN-Stream' with a 0.2 or so.

I believe it was David E who explained why those stream numbers don't count toward the overall 'WFAN-FM' numbers. It's because they're not 100 % simulcast. On occasion the stream breaks away from the terrestrial 660 and 101.9 signals to play spots that don't violate some union-voice rules. The stream goes all over the planet and frazzles many jurisdictional concerns, so the stream is listed separately.

 

[Gregg.]

I always thought that the stations licensed to suburban communities were able to keep simulcasting if that city of license was small enough in population, such as WPGC Morningside, Maryland, a suburb of Washington. Also WINE Brookfield, Connecticut, a suburb of Danbury.

All the AM-FM Classical stations got exemptions: 1560 WQXR NYC had separate midday programming for a short time but that may have been a voluntary experiment. Most of the history of 1560 and 96.3, they simulcast. WGMS Washington, KFAC Los Angeles, WCRB Boston, KDB Santa Barbara and two stations in San Francisco, KDFC and KKHI, all got exemptions.

And two All-News stations got exemptions, WAVA Arlington-Washington and WBRE Wilkes-Barre, PA.

I didn't know WHOM simulcast. I always remember the AM airing a full-service Tropical format, with the FM doing a Latin Easy Listening format.

 

[KeithE4]

I always thought that the stations licensed to suburban communities were able to keep simulcasting if that city of license was small enough in population, such as WPGC Morningside, Maryland, a suburb of Washington. Also WINE Brookfield, Connecticut, a suburb of Danbury.

In the case of metro Phoenix (city population roughly 500K in 1967, 1.6M today), the suburban stations were licensed to Mesa (KBUZ and KDKB, population about 50K in '67, 500K today), Tempe (KUPD and KTUF, 40K in '67, 180K today), and Scottsdale (KDOT, 40K in '67, 250K today). Not what they are today by any means, but not small suburbs either.

 

[davideduardo]

Phoenix alone had several, going well into the '80s in some cases, and not all being AM daytimers: KMEO 740/96.9, KUPD 1060/97.9, KBUZ 1310/104.7, KDOT 1440/100.7, KDKB 1510/93.3, and KTUF 1580/KNIX 102.5. KUPD and KBUZ were not AM daytimers, although the others were. I wonder if they were able to get away with it because all save for KMEO (a low-powered Phoenix daytimer then) and KNIX were licensed to suburbs, and not Phoenix itself.

In 1967 KNIX and KDOT were full daytimers. Mesa was likely considered far from the metro as there was not a continuous urban area connecting them in the late 60's. KUPD's ability to simulcast is a mystery as Tempe was truly part of the urbanized metro. Maybe the 1060 AM frequency's power of 500 watts got a waiver; I believe that well before going up on South Mountain (around... what was it... 1973?) the FM was on one of the towers down in Guadalupe.

 

[davideduardo]

I always thought that the stations licensed to suburban communities were able to keep simulcasting if that city of license was small enough in population, such as WPGC Morningside, Maryland, a suburb of Washington. Also WINE Brookfield, Connecticut, a suburb of Danbury.

All the AM-FM Classical stations got exemptions: 1560 WQXR NYC had separate midday programming for a short time but that may have been a voluntary experiment. Most of the history of 1560 and 96.3, they simulcast. WGMS Washington, KFAC Los Angeles, WCRB Boston, KDB Santa Barbara and two stations in San Francisco, KDFC and KKHI, all got exemptions.

And two All-News stations got exemptions, WAVA Arlington-Washington and WBRE Wilkes-Barre, PA.

I didn't know WHOM simulcast. I always remember the AM airing a full-service Tropical format, with the FM doing a Latin Easy Listening format.

WAVA was a Daytimer on 780 so the same condition that covered WPGC covered it as both had excluded daytime AM daytime stations. WHOM got a wavier for about a year apparently due to Prospero Hope's health. The majority of waivers were temporary.

 

[deepstblu]

Exact date when most AM/FM simulcasts were required to end was 1/1/1967. Exceptions were daytimers (as big as WPGC AM adn FM in the DC market), a few waivers for special formats (WHOM in New York, for example) and small markets.

FM stations were still allowed to simulcast an AM for up to 50% of their schedule (reduced to 25% around 1976 or '77). The cutoff for "small market" was a population of 100,000 in the FM's city of license...NOT the market, NOT the metro, COL. This was a loophole big enough to drive a few major stations through, for example in Minneapolis-St. Paul where KQRS-AM-FM was licensed to Golden Valley and KDWB gained a full FM simulcast when it acquired an FM licensed to Richfield.

 

[Kemosabe]

I have some vague recollection of WPAT's simulcasting after the enactment of the 1967 regulation. (The station used to announce itself as "93 AM and FM.")

 

[gr8oldies]

We had some "shadowcast" situations, where the AM would run the same playlist 10 minutes later or vice versa; and/or have "junior jocks" on the AM. I believe that even KIIS AM/FM had that situation

 

[davideduardo]

I have some vague recollection of WPAT's simulcasting after the enactment of the 1967 regulation. (The station used to announce itself as "93 AM and FM.")

There was a discussion of this at the "other" board and the program Director at WPAT, Ken Lamb, recalled how they would delay the music tapes by either a day or a week (I forgot the interval) after the simulcast prohibition.

They could, of course, run the same spots in the nearly parallel stopsets so advertisers got both the AM and the FM on identical formats, just not a simulcast.

 

[Kemosabe]

There was a discussion of this at the "other" board and the program Director at WPAT, Ken Lamb, recalled how they would delay the music tapes by either a day or a week (I forgot the interval) after the simulcast prohibition.

Thank you, David.

What was the benefit of dichotomizing "live" and delayed elevator music? In my opinion, WPAT should have been granted a dispensation from the simulcast regulation.

 

[davideduardo]

Thank you, David.

What was the benefit of dichotomizing "live" and delayed elevator music? In my opinion, WPAT should have been granted a dispensation from the simulcast regulation.

Apparently WPAT had no "excusable" reason for asking for a waiver. While there was a broad waiver for classical stations, that was the FCC's "protected format" at the time.

Running the same format delayed did, in fact, comply with the letter of the regulation although it certainly did not seem to be in compliance with the spirit, which was to offer new program options to listeners.

 

[Least]

@ Wimmex :

I hope not to be confusing, but in occasional ratings books you see things such as 'WFAN-Stream' with a 0.2 or so.

I believe it was David E who explained why those stream numbers don't count toward the overall 'WFAN-FM' numbers. It's because they're not 100 % simulcast. On occasion the stream breaks away from the terrestrial 660 and 101.9 signals to play spots that don't violate some union-voice rules. The stream goes all over the planet and frazzles many jurisdictional concerns, so the stream is listed separately.

Wouldn't that also be do to streams not being able to carry live sports?

 

[CTListener]

Wouldn't that also be do to streams not being able to carry live sports?

Bingo! All stations that carry major league sports can't stream them because the rights belong to the teams or leagues. I've never listened to WFAN's stream. Do they just run a looped "Sorry, we can't stream this" announcement for 3-plus hours or is there filler programming (talk-show reruns) they can use?

 

[AMRocks]

Is WFAN a 100% simulcast on AM and FM? Or do they split maybe for some games? (I'm also not in the market.)

 

[Wimmmex]

So David Eduardo....does WFAN need to get a waiver currently for this? Are they operating under a waiver now?

Or has the rule been so relaxed that almost anything goes?

 

[davideduardo]

So David Eduardo....does WFAN need to get a waiver currently for this? Are they operating under a waiver now?

Or has the rule been so relaxed that almost anything goes?

As mentioned in another post, the AM / FM simulcast prohibition ended decades ago, at the point when it was obvious that the AM band was in severe decline.