the Alternative genre seems to forget its heritage

[TheBigA]

Country is changing to where it isn't country anymore. It will soon turn into another form of pop -- if it hasn't already.

Depends on your definition of what country is. The definition keeps changing, as new artists enter the format. That's what makes the format work, and has been the basis since Kenny Rogers sang a Lionel Richie song over 30 years ago.

There was a country version of the BeBe Rexha hit Meant To Be. It went to #1 in country. At the same time, they're playing a song by David Lee Murphy, who had country hits over 20 years ago. The definitions of what make a song country have changed, based on the influences todays artists grew up with in the 90s. If it was OK for Shania Twain to do pop country in the 90s, why is it wrong now? Country now is about a lifestyle, more than about a type of instrumentation.

My point is what keeps country relevant today is that the format evolves. That's what rock needed to do, but it really didn't. So people who may have liked rock music at one time are finding what they want elsewhere, and for some, that may be country.

 

[boombox4]

Depends on your definition of what country is. The definition keeps changing, as new artists enter the format. That's what makes the format work, and has been the basis since Kenny Rogers sang a Lionel Richie song over 30 years ago.

There was a country version of the BeBe Rexha hit Meant To Be. It went to #1 in country. At the same time, they're playing a song by David Lee Murphy, who had country hits over 20 years ago. The definitions of what make a song country have changed, based on the influences todays artists grew up with in the 90s. If it was OK for Shania Twain to do pop country in the 90s, why is it wrong now? Country now is about a lifestyle, more than about a type of instrumentation.

My point is what keeps country relevant today is that the format evolves. That's what rock needed to do, but it really didn't. So people who may have liked rock music at one time are finding what they want elsewhere, and for some, that may be country.

I agree with you in basic principle -- to a point. Music genres evolve, that is true. But country is 'evolving' into CHR. It hasn't happened completely yet, but it's headed there. You have stated that it's "lifestyle based". But when the music is CHR, the instrumentation is CHR, and there are no 'country lifestyle' elements left in the lyrics, at what point do you stop calling it 'country'?

I'm not saying it's bad. I see it for what it is: change. And part of the change is that Country music is next on the chopping block. At best, it will become another flavor of CHR. Give it time.

 

[TheBigA]

But when the music is CHR, the instrumentation is CHR, and there are no 'country lifestyle' elements left in the lyrics, at what point do you stop calling it 'country'?

That's really not a radio question. Radio plays the songs that fits its format and its target demo. There will always be songs coming from Nashville that will do that. It may not sound like Johnny Cash or Merle Haggard, but that's a different format called classic country.

As to your other point, I've already said that genre based radio formats are becoming a thing of the past. Not because of radio, but because of the music. Musicians aren't provincialists who strictly listen to one genre or another. Listeners don't think that way either. I even see that in classical music, where current orchestral composers are adding rhythmic elements to what was once very bland music.

Because today's country is a currents-based format like CHR, it will take on some similar characteristics. The difference may be in the topics in the songs or the accent of the singer. It doesn't matter as long as it attracts a sellable audience. We're not musicologists or purists, and neither are the majority of our listeners.

 

[CTListener]

I even see that in classical music, where current orchestral composers are adding rhythmic elements to what was once very bland music.

Not bland. Melodic. Melody and rhythm coexist in all forms of music, but classical music is often totally melodic, or the rhythms are subtle. And in my opinion, adding a rhythmic element to a Bach fugue would not enhance it one bit. The most extreme example of rhythmic modification of classical music was Walter Murphy's "A Fifth of Beethoven," which turned the foundations of Symphony No. 5 into disco. Entertaining, but again, not what I'd call enhancement.

Classical music in general is far too complex to be called bland. Leave that description for the soft instrumentals of "beautiful music."

 

[TheBigA]

Classical music in general is far too complex to be called bland. Leave that description for the soft instrumentals of "beautiful music."

Yep, you're right. Bad choice of words on my part. Melodic is better, but I was talking about new compositions rather than reworking of Beethoven. In 21st century classical, rhythm is also a big part of the work. I heard a classical violinist talking about the percussive elements (staccato) in his instrument.

 

[semoochie]

[QUOTE=TheBigA;6208101
There was a country version of the BeBe Rexha hit Meant To Be. It went to #1 in country.
You mean to say that what they're playing isn't the Country version?

 

[boombox4]

As to your other point, I've already said that genre based radio formats are becoming a thing of the past. Not because of radio, but because of the music. Musicians aren't provincialists who strictly listen to one genre or another. Listeners don't think that way either. I even see that in classical music, where current orchestral composers are adding rhythmic elements to what was once very bland music.

Because today's country is a currents-based format like CHR, it will take on some similar characteristics. The difference may be in the topics in the songs or the accent of the singer. It doesn't matter as long as it attracts a sellable audience. We're not musicologists or purists, and neither are the majority of our listeners.

I get it. We're seeing an amalgamation of various forms and flavors of increasingly homogenized pop that only differ in extremely minor details, like whether the lyric just might have a line about 'country'. Various shades of CHR, because it holds the listeners and makes money. Radio is a business, and the music industry is a business, and I understand that.

As for your mentioning musicians, I'm hearing less and less of them on the newer country recordings. It's mostly a producer and a computer. I heard one earlier that didn't really have a musician on it. Everything was electronic, including the drums. No guitar, nothing else that was an actual instrument, unless you count a keyboard connected to a computer as an instrument, which technically I suppose it is.

I never thought I'd see the day that happened in country music. It's interesting to see it happening, although I can't say I'm overjoyed by it. Obviously, times have changed.

 

[CTListener]

I get it. We're seeing an amalgamation of various forms and flavors of increasingly homogenized pop that only differ in extremely minor details, like whether the lyric just might have a line about 'country'. Various shades of CHR, because it holds the listeners and makes money. Radio is a business, and the music industry is a business, and I understand that.

As for your mentioning musicians, I'm hearing less and less of them on the newer country recordings. It's mostly a producer and a computer. I heard one earlier that didn't really have a musician on it. Everything was electronic, including the drums. No guitar, nothing else that was an actual instrument, unless you count a keyboard connected to a computer as an instrument, which technically I suppose it is.

I never thought I'd see the day that happened in country music. It's interesting to see it happening, although I can't say I'm overjoyed by it. Obviously, times have changed.

If a computer can do the job of a half-dozen or so studio musicians at a given recording session and 99 percent of the consumers of the product won't be able to tell the difference, why not, especially when so many music fans are no longer buying CDs or even downloading entire albums, and there are so many ways for them to get the music for nothing? It's much more cost-efficient to produce recorded popular music of any genre this way. Send the acts out on the road with a full band because they'll be playing for a paying audience.

 

[TheBigA]

You mean to say that what they're playing isn't the Country version?

The pop version didn't have Florida Georgia Line. The country version in fact begins with FGL singing, and BeBe comes in after. Two very different versions of the same song.

 

[TheBigA]

As for your mentioning musicians, I'm hearing less and less of them on the newer country recordings. It's mostly a producer and a computer.

There's a lot of that. The way songs are written have changed. The songwriters (who typically just write songs and aren't the artists on the record) are often the producers as well. That's a technique that came mainly from LA and pop writers. But the theory of relativity says for every action, there's an equal reaction. So you have a group of traditionalists like Jon Pardi coming in sounding more like George Strait.

The one thing about country is to present variety. So you have the rock-influenced songs, the pop-influenced songs, and the traditional influenced songs all on the same station. In alternative, when a band takes on different influences and becomes popular, it's no longer seen as alternative. So there are former alternative bands now making pop records and getting played on pop radio. Why? Because there's more money and better tour opportunities in pop. So it might make alternative a more musically pure format, but it's less popular and less marketable.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Millennials have a great appreciation for classic rock, but when it comes to their choice for current music, it's usually Post Malone.

You just made me Google Post Malone, I had no idea what /who you were talking about. Yikes BTW did you know that he was Born on the 4th of July?? (1995);;; My God what I missed out on all these last 4 years (heh heh)

 

[TheBigA]

You just made me Google Post Malone, I had no idea what /who you were talking about. Yikes BTW did you know that he was Born on the 4th of July?? (1995);;; My God what I missed out on all these last 4 years (heh heh)

He's a millennial.

 

[CTListener]

There's a lot of that. The way songs are written have changed. The songwriters (who typically just write songs and aren't the artists on the record) are often the producers as well. That's a technique that came mainly from LA and pop writers. .

The non-artist songwriters were a major presence in country's "new traditionalist" boom years of the mid-80s through mid-90s, too. George Strait didn't write. Reba McEntire didn't write. Garth Brooks co-wrote with established Nashville writers. The Mary Chapin Carpenters and Vince Gills were more the exception than the rule. Songwriters as producers is something very new, though. Those '80s and '90s artists, for the most part, used about a half dozen producers -- names like Tony Brown, James Stroud, Garth Fundis, Allen Reynolds. Most of them had their favorite studio musicians. I reviewed country music for a newspaper during those years and it got so I could tell who the producer was and who was playing the fiddle or the lead guitar on a record without looking at the credits half the time! If everyone is using computers in the studio now, I wouldn't have a clue.

 

[TheBigA]

If everyone is using computers in the studio now, I wouldn't have a clue.

The writing process is separate from the recording process. But the goal for writers today is to present a well-formed song to the artist, so they can decide easily if they want to record it. Typically one of the co-writers is also skilled as a producer, so they can deliver the artist a complete song ready to record. If one of the writer has a relationship with an artist, perhaps as producer, it makes the pitch even easier.

 

[semoochie]

The pop version didn't have Florida Georgia Line. The country version in fact begins with FGL singing, and BeBe comes in after. Two very different versions of the same song.

Our Z100 plays the version that starts with the guy singing. Is that the Country version of which you speak?

 

[TheBigA]

Our Z100 plays the version that starts with the guy singing. Is that the Country version of which you speak?

That sounds like the country version.

This is the pop version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLx94-gnIlo

 

[CTListener]

That sounds like the country version.

This is the pop version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLx94-gnIlo

Could be that some pop stations play the country version and some country stations play the pop version. I seem to recall that happening with Taylor Swift's crossover hit "Love Story." The pop version eliminated the banjo track from the mix, but I definitely remember hearing the country version on a couple of Hot ACs.

Maybe we ought to wrap up this discussion quickly. Severe thread topic drift going on here.

 

[gamefreak]

I just thought of it. Would the decline of audiences in rock formats also have something to do with the switch from Diary to PPM in most markets?

AC, Classic Hits, CHR and in some-cases Country stations usually end up becoming flagship stations in their market, a station that usually plays in shops, restaurants and doctors offices. Rock stations don't usually end up as the default background music stations for businesses, particularly stations that lean towards Active Rock.

Also, isn't that fact that some acts don't sell-out big stadiums also have something to do with record company decisions. Artists that have the record industries backing get the better promotion for touring, vs artists that don't have the backing of record companies. It's a Catch-22, you have to sell-out a stadium to get the promotion you need to sell-out a stadium.

 

[davideduardo]

I just thought of it. Would the decline of audiences in rock formats also have something to do with the switch from Diary to PPM in most markets?

Not really. Look at KROQ, a stable well-performing Alt station. In 2007, pre-PPM it was in the mid-3's. In 2008 and 2009, post-PPM, it was in the mid-3's.

Occasional listening in a store or public place has very little effect on the ratings as the TSL is so low.

 

[boombox4]

I just thought of it. Would the decline of audiences in rock formats also have something to do with the switch from Diary to PPM in most markets?

AC, Classic Hits, CHR and in some-cases Country stations usually end up becoming flagship stations in their market, a station that usually plays in shops, restaurants and doctors offices. Rock stations don't usually end up as the default background music stations for businesses, particularly stations that lean towards Active Rock.

Also, isn't that fact that some acts don't sell-out big stadiums also have something to do with record company decisions. Artists that have the record industries backing get the better promotion for touring, vs artists that don't have the backing of record companies. It's a Catch-22, you have to sell-out a stadium to get the promotion you need to sell-out a stadium.

I think it is a gradual aging out of the audience. The fact that a lot of active rock stations rely on classic rock in their playlists and don't play as many new acts doesn't help much.

Your average GenXer or younger rock fan probably doesn't want to hear The Who and Led Zeppelin on active rock radio when they grew up on acts that still don't get played much on a lot of the stations, like Limp Bizkit or Linkin Park.

The 'oldness' of a lot of the music on some active rock playlists makes the music sound more stale.