Christmas in Philadelphia

[Miguelito]

We're about three-and-a-half days from when WBEB traditionally flips their HD2 to Christmas from '80s. I'm wondering (because I wonder about things like this) if there will be material differences in the overall Christmas-on-the-radio plans since the station is now being operated by Entercom and since WOGL obviously won't be bothering with Christmas this year.

As for the main channel: This year, Thanksgiving is the earliest it can possibly be (November 22) so I wouldn't expect WBEB to flip a week before as they do most years. Historically, when it's an early Thanksgiving, they flip 1-3 days before Thanksgiving instead of the week before. In the absence of another station doing the format, I wonder if they'll just wait til the day before Thanksgiving every year. Plus, the Holiday book doesn't start til December 6 this year so what's the incentive to go early?

Is December 6 later than usual for the Holiday book? I can't remember but it seems later. Anyway, Merry Christmas!

 

[oldies76]

We're about three-and-a-half days from when WBEB traditionally flips their HD2 to Christmas from '80s. I'm wondering (because I wonder about things like this) if there will be material differences in the overall Christmas-on-the-radio plans since the station is now being operated by Entercom and since WOGL obviously won't be bothering with Christmas this year.

As for the main channel: This year, Thanksgiving is the earliest it can possibly be (November 22) so I wouldn't expect WBEB to flip a week before as they do most years. Historically, when it's an early Thanksgiving, they flip 1-3 days before Thanksgiving instead of the week before. In the absence of another station doing the format, I wonder if they'll just wait til the day before Thanksgiving every year. Plus, the Holiday book doesn't start til December 6 this year so what's the incentive to go early?

Is December 6 later than usual for the Holiday book? I can't remember but it seems later. Anyway, Merry Christmas!

In September??? Listenership will be very low until mid November. I'd rather begin after Thanksgiving.

 

[AbrahamJSimpson]

In September??? Listenership will be very low until mid November. I'd rather begin after Thanksgiving.

I think the “few days” meant only on the HD2. Barring an unforeseen stunt, no one in Philly is going full time on a primary signal until somewhere in the general Thanksgiving vicinity.

 

[Miguelito]

Well, three-and-a-half days from when I wrote that would be October; not September. And yes, I was talking about the HD2 (with a little sleuthing, you can figure it out since it says it in plain English right there in the first sentence).

And I agree that WBEB has no reason to flip this year until November 21 unless someone forces their hand by flipping first. But unless someone is planning a format change for the new year, I don't see any other station in the market that's compatible with the temporary format. Even if that were to happen, WBEB would likely play it cool until mid-month anyway.

I'm pretty sure the numbers have shown that folks around here listen to Christmas music pretty much whenever WBEB decides to start playing it...so the assertion that "Listenership will be very low until mid November" is actually an opinion. Here's another one: If WBEB flipped on November 5, a lot of P1's would tune out (as they do every year) but at the same time, a lot of others would tune in (as they do every year).

Do we think it would wise or unwise for Entercom to mention WTDY on WBEB's air throughout the season? Personally, I don't think there's a threat of listeners sticking with 96.5 when 101.1 returns to the regular format so I'm of the opinion that mentioning WTDY might be a pretty good idea.

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

While the book may not start until Dec 6, my thinking is that having a little momentum wouldn't hurt.

And having a rimshot reach for Black Friday (without overdoing it and risk blunting the entire seasonal performance) can't hurt, either.

Entercom probably has been sold out of space by now anyway, putting last season's book to good use. If that's the case, yes; why *not* try to hoist up WTDY?

 

[CurtisNEPA]

I have an idea.

More FM would play mostly modern Christmas tunes without all that Bing Crosby, Paul McCartney, and Natalie Cole stuff, while WOGL will mostly focus on these artists and since they are now 80's centered, I would expect to be hearing Wham's Last Christmas.

WTDY will stay as is.

 

[atthestars]

I have an idea.

More FM would play mostly modern Christmas tunes without all that Bing Crosby, Paul McCartney, and Natalie Cole stuff, while WOGL will mostly focus on these artists and since they are now 80's centered, I would expect to be hearing Wham's Last Christmas.

WTDY will stay as is.

More FM pulls insane ratings with all that Bing Crosby, Paul McCartney and Natalie Cole stuff. Why change?

 

[CTListener]

More FM pulls insane ratings with all that Bing Crosby, Paul McCartney and Natalie Cole stuff. Why change?

The thing about the Christmas format is that Bing Crosby, Andy Williams, Gene Autry, Nat King Cole, etc. will never drive away the money demos the way they would if their non-holiday songs were to be added to classic hits playlists. Their sentimental odes to snowmen, mistletoe, fireplaces and family reunions -- and occasionally the birth of a baby in Bethlehem -- have been part of the holiday season for generations, generations they all transcend.

 

[Miguelito]

I have an idea.

More FM would play mostly modern Christmas tunes without all that Bing Crosby, Paul McCartney, and Natalie Cole stuff, while WOGL will mostly focus on these artists and since they are now 80's centered, I would expect to be hearing Wham's Last Christmas.

WTDY will stay as is.

Sounds like it would make pretty bad business sense. Does anyone know if there are any markets where one radio company flips two of their stations to all-Christmas every year?

 

[oldies76]

The thing about the Christmas format is that Bing Crosby, Andy Williams, Gene Autry, Nat King Cole, etc. will never drive away the money demos the way they would if their non-holiday songs were to be added to classic hits playlists. Their sentimental odes to snowmen, mistletoe, fireplaces and family reunions -- and occasionally the birth of a baby in Bethlehem -- have been part of the holiday season for generations, generations they all transcend.

Exactly......never mess with the true classics. My personal collection involves about 85% classics (such as the artists you mentioned above and even a few deeper, but popular tunes from the Vienna Boys Choir and the like ) and 15% newer stuff. Newer meaning post 1980

I mean, what's Christmas without "It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year" by Andy Williams or "Little Saint Nick" by the Beach Boys and the occasional non-secular carols which many stations avoid it seems.

Personally, I enjoy "We Need A Little Christmas" by Percy Faith.

 

[atthestars]

Exactly......never mess with the true classics. My personal collection involves about 85% classics (such as the artists you mentioned above and even a few deeper, but popular tunes from the Vienna Boys Choir and the like ) and 15% newer stuff. Newer meaning post 1980

I mean, what's Christmas without "It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year" by Andy Williams or "Little Saint Nick" by the Beach Boys and the occasional non-secular carols which many stations avoid it seems.

Personally, I enjoy "We Need A Little Christmas" by Percy Faith.

I forget if it was a blog post or an article or something a year or two ago, when someone asked "Where are the new Christmas Classics?"

I don't follow Christmas music that closely, but what has been some of the more "recent" Christmas songs that made it into playlists? Anything by Pentatonix? Besides that.... "All I Want For Christmas is You" by Mariah Carey (which is 20 years old already). It seems like current Christmas Music just doesn't stick in testing and make it into playlists.

 

[Miguelito]

Pentatonix has been all over Christmas radio for the past couple seasons. Funny you should mention them. An hour ago, I bought tickets to their Christmas show at The Met.

Billboard publishes a holiday airplay chart every year. Mariah's "All I Want For Christmas Is You" is pretty much always the #1 most-played song. Then come a slew of classics to round out the top 25. Most are what I guess some would consider "Standards/Oldies" (Bobby Helms, Burl Ives, Brenda Lee, Nat King Cole, etc) but it's 2018 and I think it's fair to say that the songs by Trans-Siberian Orchestra, Eagles, Band Aid, and Hall & Oates have joined the ranks of the classics.

Newer songs at Christmas radio are by artists like Taylor Swift, Michael Buble, and Carrie Underwood.

 

[CTListener]

I forget if it was a blog post or an article or something a year or two ago, when someone asked "Where are the new Christmas Classics?"

I don't follow Christmas music that closely, but what has been some of the more "recent" Christmas songs that made it into playlists? Anything by Pentatonix? Besides that.... "All I Want For Christmas is You" by Mariah Carey (which is 20 years old already). It seems like current Christmas Music just doesn't stick in testing and make it into playlists.

My guess is that the fracturing of CHR into pop and rhythmic and AC into soft, standard, hot, rhythmic-leaning, pop-leaning and even rock-leaning has made for less exposure to new Christmas songs every year. People who might like a Christmas song by, say, Bruno Mars if they only had a chance to hear it won't get that chance because it might be "too pop" for their rhythmic station of choice, "too uptempo" for their soft AC of choice, etc. And many stations that play current music of any form just aren't playing holiday tunes anymore because they know they can't compete in December with that all-Christmas monster across town, or in the same building, so why give their listeners a reason to look for more ho-ho-ho elsewhere by giving them a song or two an hour?

 

[Miguelito]

My guess is that the fracturing of CHR into pop and rhythmic and AC into soft, standard, hot, rhythmic-leaning, pop-leaning and even rock-leaning has made for less exposure to new Christmas songs every year. People who might like a Christmas song by, say, Bruno Mars if they only had a chance to hear it won't get that chance because it might be "too pop" for their rhythmic station of choice, "too uptempo" for their soft AC of choice, etc. And many stations that play current music of any form just aren't playing holiday tunes anymore because they know they can't compete in December with that all-Christmas monster across town, or in the same building, so why give their listeners a reason to look for more ho-ho-ho elsewhere by giving them a song or two an hour?

Interesting. I think if someone like Bruno Mars put out a Christmas single this year, CHR and Urban would spin like any other Bruno Mars single as long as it tests well. Especially here in Philly because I have my doubts that More FM would even touch a record like that until someone else tests it out.

 

[oldies76]

I forget if it was a blog post or an article or something a year or two ago, when someone asked "Where are the new Christmas Classics?"

I don't follow Christmas music that closely, but what has been some of the more "recent" Christmas songs that made it into playlists? Anything by Pentatonix? Besides that.... "All I Want For Christmas is You" by Mariah Carey (which is 20 years old already). It seems like current Christmas Music just doesn't stick in testing and make it into playlists.

Personally, I don't believe most of these newer Christmas songs out today will ever stand the test of time. Yeah, the Carey song will be played ad nauseum. People know the original classics from the Rat Pack, the Beach Boys, Jose Feliciano, Andy Williams....etc... and yes, in 2018, they will still be played. Gone are the Silent Nights, the Oh Holy Nights and the Away in the Mangers, on classic hits radio.

I don't believe any newer classics will ever replace these originals.

 

[TheBigA]

It seems like current Christmas Music just doesn't stick in testing and make it into playlists.

I've talked to artists about this, and they tell me they get discouraged by their label and management to do new holiday songs. One popular star told me she was planning a Christmas album, and told her manager, "I'll write something." He said, "Don't bother. People just want the familiar favorites." So she's doing an album of ten classics. In a world where people don't buy records or CDs, but just listen to specific songs, the emphasis is singing songs that will cause people to click on them, because they don't have time or curiosity to experiment.

 

[MarcB]

I don't know about MORE-FM, but I've noticed here in Hartford our all-Christmas Station Lite 100.5 WRCH has tightened their Christmas Music playlist over the last few years. Whenever they flip my Mom never changes the station. (During the non-Christmas season she switches back and forth throughout the day between Lite 100.5 and our local Oldies Station). Tightened playlist more repetitiveness. Less classics. It sucks. I can't even listen to Christmas Music until December 14th (my Mom's birthday) and even then I can only take it in small doses. And hour or two at a time. One year we had two all Christmas stations in Hartford Lite 100.5 and the now-defunct The Big D 102.9 FM. I personally liked The Big D's presentation of the format much better than the the presentation of the all Christmas format on Lite 100.5 WRCH. Problem was the ratings on 102.9 tanked when they did the all-Christmas music and it was lower than that of their normal Oldies/Classic Hits format.

Of course now Music Choice on DirecTV has Christmas Music year round. So there's that.

 

[AbrahamJSimpson]

Personally, I don't believe most of these newer Christmas songs out today will ever stand the test of time. Yeah, the Carey song will be played ad nauseum. People know the original classics from the Rat Pack, the Beach Boys, Jose Feliciano, Andy Williams....etc... and yes, in 2018, they will still be played. Gone are the Silent Nights, the Oh Holy Nights and the Away in the Mangers, on classic hits radio.

I don't believe any newer classics will ever replace these originals.

The songs of the "Very Special Christmas" era are about three decades old now. Depending on the station, naturally, many of them get more or less comparable airplay as the older songs. They've stood the test of time. They are classics.

To some of us, Springsteen's "Santa Clause is Coming to Town" or Bob Seger's "Little Drummer Boy" are just as, if not more welcome and associated with Christmas than those several decades older.

It's not about "replacing" anything, it's about embracing a wide range and not dismissing "new" things out of hand just because they're new.

 

[CTListener]

The songs of the "Very Special Christmas" era are about three decades old now. Depending on the station, naturally, many of them get more or less comparable airplay as the older songs. They've stood the test of time. They are classics.

To some of us, Springsteen's "Santa Clause is Coming to Town" or Bob Seger's "Little Drummer Boy" are just as, if not more welcome and associated with Christmas than those several decades older.

It's not about "replacing" anything, it's about embracing a wide range and not dismissing "new" things out of hand just because they're new.

But, like songs from "Feliz Navidad" to "Last Christmas" to "All I Want For Christmas Is You," the two songs you mentioned hit Christmas playlists when they were current and never left -- instant "classics." And both the Seger and Springsteen songs -- which this baby boomer welcomes, too, every year -- are products of the '80s. I would definitely give new holiday music a chance, if only I was hearing any on the stations in my area (Hartford and Springfield) that flip. In 30 years -- if radio as we know it is still around then (or if the ocean temperature has already risen 5 degrees and Connecticut is down below with Atlantis) -- will we (if WE'RE still around) still be hearing Springsteen and Seger's 60-year-old recordings? Or will something, anything, from the '10, '20s and '30s have "stuck" and become a holiday perennial, in the way anything from the '00s and '10s hasn't?

Maybe Christmas/seasonal music is going the way of classical, in which there are still composers working in the genre, but the public only wants to hear (and radio only wants to play) music by composers who died before the mid-20th century -- in most cases, LONG before.

 

[gr8oldies]

I'm quite sure that in 2064, "It's The Most Wonderful Time of the Year" by Andy Williams will still be getting Christmas airplay. Several generations have grown up hearing it. TSO is still touring, as is Manheim Steamroller.