Which FM will be the next one at 1WTC?

[djl]

Now that 104.7 is using 1WTC, which station might be next? Even though it’s further south than the ESB and will have less power, the increased height might give a station a further reach into the mountains of Northern NJ or further into Suffolk County.

Given that there are new tall buildings in Midtown that can interfere with the FM at ESB or 4 Times Square, 1 WTC night once again look attractive. Perhaps the stations can adjust their signals to cover Midtown with less multipath than the original 1WTC.

As a listener of HD Radio in my car, I think the increased height might yield a few further miles of HD reception before the digital cliff.

With all these new translators coming onboard, one would think WNSH could obtain the necessary waivers or permits to go full power at 1WTC so as to increase their coverage on Long Island.

 

[xmradiopro]

Don't remember the frequency but WNSH has an application for a translator station in Rockland County.

 

[davideduardo]

Now that 104.7 is using 1WTC, which station might be next? Even though it’s further south than the ESB and will have less power, the increased height might give a station a further reach into the mountains of Northern NJ or further into Suffolk County.

Given that there are new tall buildings in Midtown that can interfere with the FM at ESB or 4 Times Square, 1 WTC night once again look attractive. Perhaps the stations can adjust their signals to cover Midtown with less multipath than the original 1WTC.

As a listener of HD Radio in my car, I think the increased height might yield a few further miles of HD reception before the digital cliff.

With all these new translators coming onboard, one would think WNSH could obtain the necessary waivers or permits to go full power at 1WTC so as to increase their coverage on Long Island.

A bit higher antenna and subsequent reduction of power will not increase coverage out towards the eastern part of Long Island.

The only station that might benefit from a move to 1WTC is WPAT, because they had to reduce power below that of a conforming Class B to move permanently to the ESB. They are very unlikely to move to 1WTC as being on the ESB puts a better signal over their target market areas.

The fact is that the population of Midtown is rather insignificant in the overall population of the market and the huge geography. It would surprise me to see any of the commercial Class B stations move off the ESB (and of course, several can't due to protection issues).

 

[luperm]

As of right now, WNSH can't move to either ESB or WTC due to several short spacing issues (94.7 Springfield, MA and 94.3 Smithtown, NY for starters). They'd have to drop to a B1 and go directional, I believe...and even then, it still might be a challenge. I'm sure the best and brightest engineers have studied this for many years, and yet 94.7 remains in West Orange. The translator in Rockland is now in Westchester broadcasting 95.5 HD2 (the old hollowed out remnants of "WFAS-FM")

 

[djl]

So weird that 94.7 in Springfield, MA would be an interference threat given that is over 90 miles from NYC.

WWSK’s transmitter is on the Long Island Expressway at the Sagtikos Parkway. The rules are so weird that they consider this to be close to ESB or 1WTC.

Given that most of today’s receivers have enough Alternate Channel Selectivity to handle this, how come they never updated the rules to allow stations this far away to be next to each other.

 

[KML0224]

What about this 104.7 FM station? How far is it from WSPK-FM 104.7 of Poughkeepsie?

 

[ansky212]

So weird that 94.7 in Springfield, MA would be an interference threat given that is over 90 miles from NYC.

Actually it is more like 140 miles from NYC to Springfield.

 

[luperm]

Co-channel Class B stations need to be separated by 150 miles.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/73.207

The 104.7 translator on WTC is outside of WSPK’s protected contour and puts virtually no signal out to the north.

 

[Sonic37]

Don't forget 94.3 the Point in Asbury Park, which is even closer than Smithtown

 

[Kemosabe]

So weird that 94.7 in Springfield, MA would be an interference threat given that is over 90 miles from NYC.

I've never understood why Lappin did not move the WMAS-FM transmitter from the banks of the Connecticut River (55 meters HAAT) to, say, Provin Mountain, when it had the opportunity.

 

[luperm]

WMAS-FM is actually licensed to Enfield, CT and needs to maintain sufficient coverage over that community. Plus any major move would cause WMAS-FM to likely lose any grandfathered status it might have with respect to co-channel and adjacent channel stations. I would assume that Cumulus studied this.

 

[Kemosabe]

WMAS-FM is actually licensed to Enfield, CT and needs to maintain sufficient coverage over that community. Plus any major move would cause WMAS-FM to likely lose any grandfathered status it might have with respect to co-channel and adjacent channel stations. I would assume that Cumulus studied this.

Please keep in mind that, under Lappin's ownership, WMAS-FM was licensed to Springfield. (The recent change has its own bizarre backstory.) In any case, the Enfield COL is not a factor with regard to Provin Mountain, an elevation that neighbors Enfield. (Recall that the erstwhile WPKX ("Kix 97.9"), a Class A station licensed to Enfield, served its COL quite adequately from the WWLP tower on the aforementioned elevation.) My original point was that, decades ago, Lappin had the opportunity to move its transmitter to higher ground, but, owing to parsimony, unwisely (IMHO) chose not to.

 

[Greg Strickland]

I think spacing and contour overlap will determine a decision to seriously consider moving from ESB to 1WTC. If those factors are fine, on deck is the engaging and interesting discussion of building penetration vs line of sight. Based on a quick look just now, WPAT retains their WTC license. As we know, WPAT is absolutely entitled to rebuild their licensed WTC facility. However... WPAT licensed facility location coordinates are not the same as the location coordinates of 1WTC. Engineering consultants and communications attorneys can explore this detail with FCC rules and policy.

I haven't run a study on other ESB FMs to see how spacing and contour overlap looks at 1WTC compared to ESB. Despite the ocean to one side, I'm not too optimistic. The northeast is congested with many grandfathered overlap areas that cannot be increased (generally speaking).

Best engineering advice might not be engineering advice...

 

[TheBigA]

I think spacing and contour overlap will determine a decision to seriously consider moving from ESB to 1WTC.

Then of course is the difference in cost....I'd suggest that would be a factor at least for some stations.

 

[djl]

so how come WPKX 97.9 can operate without any co-channel problems with WSKQ 97.9 in NYC, but WNSH has to worry about WMAS?

 

[CTListener]

so how come WPKX 97.9 can operate without any co-channel problems with WSKQ 97.9 in NYC, but WNSH has to worry about WMAS?

I'm interested in knowing the answer to this. These two stations consistently get into a real battle royal on I-91 between Wallingford and New Haven, with the winner often determined by tropo. And WPKX's transmitter is in Hartford, closer to WSKQ than WMAS's!

 

[djl]

There is also a battle between WCBS 101.1 and WBEB 101.1 and they are certainly closer than 140 miles apart. You lose WCBS before Edison, NJ. I’m curious on his too

 

[TheBigA]

There is also a battle between WCBS 101.1 and WBEB 101.1 and they are certainly closer than 140 miles apart. You lose WCBS before Edison, NJ. I’m curious on his too

And now (for the first time) they're both owned by the same company.

 

[CTListener]

I'm interested in knowing the answer to this. These two stations consistently get into a real battle royal on I-91 between Wallingford and New Haven, with the winner often determined by tropo. And WPKX's transmitter is in Hartford, closer to WSKQ than WMAS's!

WUCS, not WPKX. Just hit me that I'd gotten it wrong about an hour ago when I heard the ID when listening to Sunday Night Football.

 

[davideduardo]

There is also a battle between WCBS 101.1 and WBEB 101.1 and they are certainly closer than 140 miles apart. You lose WCBS before Edison, NJ. I’m curious on his too

Like many such situations, they are "grandfathered" to assignments that were made before the FM band was re-regulated in the early 60's.

If Scott Fybush is reading this thread, perhaps he can contribute some understanding to the cases of specific NYC stations and their protection requirements.