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Hubbard Testing All-Digital AM on WWFD

Here's a link to a video of someone receiving the station in Harrisburg, PA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDuOILhvDB8

Seems to decode OK that far out, but I dunno if Harrisburg is in the main coverage area of the station or not. The sound quality is no better than the hybrid system, but at least it's not nasty-splattering all over the adjacent channels anymore.

One thing I've noticed is none of the demo videos I've seen of hybrid AM or this full digital test show any kind of PAD. Is AM incapable of doing digital audio and song title/artist info?
 
tomservo said:
One thing I've noticed is none of the demo videos I've seen of hybrid AM or this full digital test show any kind of PAD. Is AM incapable of doing digital audio and song title/artist info?
Click to expand...

Dave Garner said there will be metadata along with artist experience as part of the all-digital tests in the interview. I guess it's not up and running yet.
 
MarioMania said:
It never work

AM isn't ment for Digital
Click to expand...

If it does not work, it will be because consumers don't buy the needed HD radios.

AM is no less suited for digital than FM or satellite or cellular phones. It's just a band of frequencies that can have any manner of transmission from CW to digital broadcast on it.
 
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DavidEduardo said:


If it does not work, it will be because consumers don't buy the needed HD radios.

AM is no less suited for digital than FM or satellite or cellular phones. It's just a band of frequencies that can have any manner of transmission from CW to digital broadcast on it.
Click to expand...

Digital will work for FM, Not AM

There alot of factors, Lighting, LED, CFL's, TV, Interfrence

Leave Analog AM alone, Focus on FM
 
MarioMania said:


Digital will work for FM, Not AM

There alot of factors, Lighting, LED, CFL's, TV, Interfrence

Leave Analog AM alone, Focus on FM
Click to expand...

Full digital on the Medium Wave Band is not AM. It's a digital data stream.

540 to 1700 kHz is no different than 88 to 107 MHz in the sense that you could use AM modulation, FM modulation or a digital data stream in those bands. While there is a difference in propagation characteristics, digital is digital whether it is on 1 MHz (1000 kHz) or 100 MHZ or 5 GHz.

To further make the point, in North America we call 540 to 1700 the "AM Band" but that is only because AM stations operate there. In the rest of the world, the band is called "Medium Wave" and is just a reference to wavelength. But, were it authorized by the government, code (CW), FM or AM or digital systems could be broadcasts in the band.

As tomservo mentions, India is replacing AM stations with DRM stations, with the idea to make all medium wave stations digital in a few years.
 
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MarioMania said:


Digital will work for FM, Not AM

There alot of factors, Lighting, LED, CFL's, TV, Interfrence

Leave Analog AM alone, Focus on FM
Click to expand...

Leaving analog AM alone is sentencing the entire band to a long, slow death.

If a full AM HD broadcast can overcome some of the problems caused by impulse noise, CFLs and all that, then it's a worthwhile solution for some broadcasters.

It is a shame, though, that the system we have is not an open license-free deal. DRM seems to work well enough on MW and SW, but it's always been hampered by the "chicken and egg" issue, no broadcasts because there are no radios and no radios because there are no broadcasts.

India has committed to DRM for a lot of their AM signals, so that may finally turn the tide towards getting consumer radios out there. AM stations in the US that have translators and/or HD2 feeds on sister FMs are a good candidate to go HD-only for coverage and fidelity reasons. It might drive more radios to include AM HD instead being FM-only.
 
MarioMania said:
I heard how AM Stereo sound like, Only done it though YT

Sounds alot better then FM..
Click to expand...


Actually, with the NRSC hard cut at 10 kHz, it doesn't. And can't.

With increasing high analog noise affecting medium wave stations, it can't sound good unless one is in the 15 mV/m contour or better (ITU sanctioned statistic).

The "old" AM stereo system was analog. It sounds marginally better than mono, but not "better than FM".

Analog AM can sound Great
Click to expand...

No, it can not. For the reasons above, and because so few AM stations fully cover their markets today with usable signals.
 
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MarioMania said:
I heard how AM Stereo sound like, Only done it though YT

Sounds alot better then FM..

Analog AM can sound Great
Click to expand...

I am one of the bigger cheerleaders of C-Quam stereo out there, but even I know this is hogwash, or you need your ears checked for wax.

AM stereo can sound very good but only under very good conditions, as David has noted. It takes a strong, stable signal. Modern chipsets have pretty much eliminated platform motion for nighttime reception but I don't know if any radios actually use them or not, since it was a development that came well after AM stereo crashed and burned.

Now, tell me where all these AM stereo radios are, and how you plan to get them into the marketplace. Because I got news for you: For all the lack of HD radios out there, there are way far fewer AM stereo radios out there. I have one (I hoard it like solid gold) but most people who aren't radio enthusiasts don't.
 
DavidEduardo said:


If it does not work, it will be because consumers don't buy the needed HD radios.

AM is no less suited for digital than FM or satellite or cellular phones. It's just a band of frequencies that can have any manner of transmission from CW to digital broadcast on it.
Click to expand...

I agree with this sentiment. The band used by AM has limited bandwidth, but I think it has enough bandwidth in a normal broadcast channel for useful programming. AM band capable HD radios seem widely available on the auto market now. The choices of portable and tabletop radios is very limited, but I think that is a niche market anyway. The Golden Age of Radio is far away in the rear view mirror now. The AM band is just another medium for audio programming that has to compete with the FM band, Satellite radio, Smart Phones and Smart Speakers.

I think WWFD is taking the right approach. Broadcast digital-only. Using hybrid mode just uses too much bandwidth. I might be wrong but it seems like a lot of "AM" listeners are listening through FM translators these days. The AM broadcast is being used as a placeholder for the license. Given that, it seems like going digital in the AM band isn't necessarily that risky from the standpoint of listenership. It's more that the capitol investment for the digital broadcast facilities is the risk.

On the other hand, not investing in HD AM radio will just steepen the decline of the AM radio band. Audio programming listeners will just switch to other media for their audio programming. I don't think listeners will stay on the band if stations stick to analog broadcasts. That's my two cents.
 
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rbc said:
The choices of portable and tabletop radios is very limited, but I think that is a niche market anyway. The Golden Age of Radio is far away in the rear view mirror now. The AM band is just another medium for audio programming that has to compete with the FM band, Satellite radio, Smart Phones and Smart Speakers.
Click to expand...

I'll add a little bit here. I'm in the tabletop and portable radio niche. I've bought Sangean's HDR-18, HDR-16 and HDR-14 radios. I'm really glad to see that Sangean is making an effort to include the AM band in their offerings. I hope they keep it up.
 
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DavidEduardo said:
AM is no less suited for digital than FM or satellite or cellular phones. It's just a band of frequencies that can have any manner of transmission from CW to digital broadcast on it.
Click to expand...

Bandwidth is bandwidth no matter how you slice it up.

DavidEduardo said:
If it does not work, it will be because consumers don't buy the needed HD radios.
Click to expand...

100% spot on. IMO, by the time consumers get on board, the demographic who even know what AM is, will be aged out.
 
stewie said:
100% spot on. IMO, by the time consumers get on board, the demographic who even know what AM is, will be aged out.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's something that entirely rests with the consumers. If none of their local broadcasters are using digital, why bother? Why buy the radio if the local broadcaster didn't put up the capex to broadcast digital? The other part is the manufacturing.

In the US, analog radios can't pick up the digital broadcasting that already exists, except maybe through translators. In those markets with the digital broadcasting, those manufacturers are selling "broken" radios that only pick up part of the programming. It seems like everyone is waiting for the others to make the move, and as a result nothing much is happening. I think the broadcasters and manufacturers will need to do more for digital radio to succeed. Waiting on the consumers isn't going to be a success story.
 
I'll put it this way, if a station does a good job with audio processing and making sure the entire audio chain and transmitter are in great shape, a C-Quam AM stereo station can sound very good on an AMAX radio. I know of one that still does this, WION in Ionia, Michigan. They actually set up their streaming by feeding it with the sound from an AM stereo tuner. It's a gimmick, but it sounds very good. You can hear it on i1430.com if you want.

All that being said, it does not sound as good an an FM station. I suppose an average listener might not notice the difference. Even this station that really hypes their AM Stereo signal has an FM translator. But I give them credit for doing a really nice job with their AM signal.

The all-digital signal in DC is an interesting experiment and I would love to hear how it sounds on an HD radio. However, it's not going to sound quite as good as an FM station.
You're just not going to get a better sound out of a signal that is squeezed through a much narrower bandwidth.
 
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