if 1210 would ever flip the only option is...

[eyeconic]

Standards, yep that's the only option, bring the format to the flamethrower, and at night pull in many distant listeners, ala Toronto's 740. They still do Frank, correct, I know when they were oldies, Pantano would boast receivng calls and mail from all over the eastern half of the US loving the format. There isn't much more you can put on it, but they are not going anywhere for at least 5 or more years.

 

[AbrahamJSimpson]

Standards, yep that's the only option, bring the format to the flamethrower, and at night pull in many distant listeners, ala Toronto's 740. They still do Frank, correct, I know when they were oldies, Pantano would boast receivng calls and mail from all over the eastern half of the US loving the format. There isn't much more you can put on it, but they are not going anywhere for at least 5 or more years.

A first post that sounds remarkably like the style of our favorite race-baiting friend. Shocking.

And standards remains a dead format, no matter how many screen names one uses.

 

[eyeconic]

What the hell are you talking about, I just joined, read previous posts and wanted to add my thoughts and you have to flame me for no reason. WOW this place is brutal, not my cup of tea.

 

[CTListener]

What the hell are you talking about, I just joined, read previous posts and wanted to add my thoughts and you have to flame me for no reason. WOW this place is brutal, not my cup of tea.

One-post wonders are always viewed with suspicion, sometimes unjustly. But championing a moribund musical genre as the salvation of AM radio is seen by some as trolling, as the radio professionals here have explained repeatedly, in great detail, why advertisers shun formats with high elderly listenership, especially in major markets like Philadelphia. Talk also skews old, but it's still more under-55-friendly than grandpa's favorite crooners on low-fi AM.

 

[TheBigA]

Sundays with Sinatra is an institution. The fact that WPHT still runs it after all these years is a tribute to that station and its management. Sid Mark is 85 years old. Not sure how much longer he can keep going. But even with all of that, just because they do a Sunday specialty show doesn't mean it could become a 24/7 format for this station. The show without Sid is nothing. It's as much about Sid as it is about Frank. Put someone else in as host, and it would be like a steak sandwich with cream cheese on it.

 

[davideduardo]

Standards, yep that's the only option, bring the format to the flamethrower, and at night pull in many distant listeners, ala Toronto's 740. They still do Frank, correct, I know when they were oldies, Pantano would boast receivng calls and mail from all over the eastern half of the US loving the format. There isn't much more you can put on it, but they are not going anywhere for at least 5 or more years.

1. Major market stations with good facilities have to target an under-55 year old audience as there is essentially no ad revenue for stations with only senior listeners. Standards fans are over 65... probably over 70.

2. Most advertisers do not buy night time radio. They know radio peaks in the daytime and TV at night.

3. Advertisers do not buy coverage outside the local market, particularly at night.

4. For a 50 kw station, WPHT (WCAU) has always had the worst signal of all the former 1-A clear channels, due to both the high dial position and the mediocre ground conductivity in the area. WTEL and WFIL actually cover more people with 5 kw than 1210 does.

 

[cyber]

I haven't heard first hand but I've been told even WRDV is easing away from the Goodman,Shaw,Dorsey,Miller era and moving more into the 1950's. If they want to continue the Big Band sound maybe they could explore the successful bands of the 70's that were led by Maynard Ferguson,Buddy Rich,Stan Kenton and Thad Jones-Mel Lewis. It would be quite a shock to the average WRDV listener but that demo is becoming less and less of overall listenership. If WPHT would go into a musical direction that may be a starting point for them. But....that will never happen. Hopefully Sid can keep going as long as he wants to. He's an institution that should be respected.

 

[semoochie]

1. Major market stations with good facilities have to target an under-55 year old audience as there is essentially no ad revenue for stations with only senior listeners. Standards fans are over 65... probably over 70.

2. Most advertisers do not buy night time radio. They know radio peaks in the daytime and TV at night.

3. Advertisers do not buy coverage outside the local market, particularly at night.

4. For a 50 kw station, WPHT (WCAU) has always had the worst signal of all the former 1-A clear channels, due to both the high dial position and the mediocre ground conductivity in the area. WTEL and WFIL actually cover more people with 5 kw than 1210 does.

A case could probably be made for "over 80", which is how old someone is, who graduated from high school in 1956.

 

[davideduardo]

A case could probably be made for "over 80", which is how old someone is, who graduated from high school in 1956.

True. I think we can safely say that there are very few baby boomers that grew up with any interest in standards, so anyone under about 73 is unlikely to be particularly fond of that music.

There will always be a few "outliers", just as to any kind of music, who like a style that they did not grow up on. But those people will be relatively few and insufficient to sustain a station that needs much younger listeners to be commercially successful.

 

[gr8oldies]

For those outliers, that's why God invented Spotify. There's more access than ever to music than any previous generation could even dream of, but people complain about radio.

 

[JBraddock]

I haven't heard first hand but I've been told even WRDV is easing away from the Goodman,Shaw,Dorsey,Miller era and moving more into the 1950's. If they want to continue the Big Band sound maybe they could explore the successful bands of the 70's that were led by Maynard Ferguson,Buddy Rich,Stan Kenton and Thad Jones-Mel Lewis. It would be quite a shock to the average WRDV listener but that demo is becoming less and less of overall listenership.

RDV's been playing 50s oldies on the weekends for several decades now, so moving that programming into the weekday slots and transitioning the weekends into the 60s and (gasp!) early 70s, would be a natural evolution.

 

[TheBigA]

If WPHT would go into a musical direction that may be a starting point for them. But....that will never happen.

Exactly. The standards they're playing are as far as they'll go, and it's just for the time being. I expect Rush will outlive Sid. But who knows?

 

[davideduardo]

RDV's been playing 50s oldies on the weekends for several decades now, so moving that programming into the weekday slots and transitioning the weekends into the 60s and (gasp!) early 70s, would be a natural evolution.

So that would lower the youngest age appeal to maybe 65!

 

[Miguelito]

1. Major market stations with good facilities have to target an under-55 year old audience as there is essentially no ad revenue for stations with only senior listeners. Standards fans are over 65... probably over 70.

2. Most advertisers do not buy night time radio. They know radio peaks in the daytime and TV at night.

3. Advertisers do not buy coverage outside the local market, particularly at night.

4. For a 50 kw station, WPHT (WCAU) has always had the worst signal of all the former 1-A clear channels, due to both the high dial position and the mediocre ground conductivity in the area. WTEL and WFIL actually cover more people with 5 kw than 1210 does.

This info is like a course in "Radio 101" and I am impressed by the patience and diplomacy you have displayed while repeating so many of these points so many times. Especially considering how often you've had to repeat them to the same person/people! Kudos on your wealth of knowledge and on your ability to not be as sarcastic as I would be if in the same position. Hope that you (and all here) had a great Thanksgiving!

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

I'm two different kinds of outlier.

1) I was fortunate to've had parents who had their music playing for what seemed at times to be 24/7/52.
Yeah, I could never hear 'Doggie In The Window' for the rest of my life and wouldn't have any withdrawal symptoms. But a lot of their music was pretty neat -- so much in fact that I enjoyed my first full time job at a beautiful music station. I just turned 71, by the way. I DJed and partially programmed at two other Standards stations despite being your basic, clueless Beach Boys/Three Dog Night/Chiffons/Stones punk.

2) This addresses the far more scant outlier in me, plus the thread theme. Imo, WPHT could see some cut in expense by giving the 50,000 rodents on the treadmills of their transmitter a rest and sign off Monday mornings from midnight to 5. That will give us DXers some nice elbow room.

Last I saw, mono-AM WPHT did pretty well. They even beat out stereo music stations WTDY and WBEN in the book. So why break something that isn't broken?

 

[K6JHU]

It really depends on what the definition of 'Standards' is as far as the demographic. If you mean Miller and Dorsey, the demographic is probably correct. If you mean Nora Jones, it is probably not. For example see 'The Strip' on HD-2 in Dallas.

 

[TheBigA]

So why break something that isn't broken?

Exactly.

 

[wfilwibg]

I would love to see WPHT go to a "Time Machine" format like WNBC did in 1987-1988. They were a throwback to the great WABC of the 1960's and early 1970's.

Big Jay Sorenson was the all night air personality from midnight to 5:30 AM and he used to get requests from all over the eastern USA and Ontario and Quebec.

The programming was fast paced and spot on with the feel of how radio used to be.

WPHT could do a replication of the former "Famous 56 WFIL" with their original "Boss Radio" format.

What a breath of fresh air in this very stale radio landscape.

 

[TheBigA]

I would love to see WPHT go to a "Time Machine" format like WNBC did in 1987-1988. They were a throwback to the great WABC of the 1960's and early 1970's.

That's not really what they did. They were a hodge-podge of formats with Imus doing AC in the mornings, oldies in mid-days, live sports in the evenings, and back to oldies overnight. NBC had given up on radio by this time. This was the last gasp failure of a format before the station was sold in 1988 and became WFAN. That was a huge success. But New Yorkers who wanted oldies had WCBS-FM.

What a breath of fresh air in this very stale radio landscape.

You think replaying 50 year old radio is fresh air? Really? You must have loved Fibber McGee & Molley too.

 

[Miguelito]

I would love to see WPHT go to a "Time Machine" format like WNBC did in 1987-1988.

It literally lasted a year? I'll say this with 99.9% certainty: No company operating in a major market (or more likely in any market) who wants to continue making money is going to flip a successful, lucrative AM station to any music format...ever again...for the rest of time. (And on 1210 AM in Philadelphia, can you even imagine how difficult it would be to enjoy music?) That part of radio's history is over.