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1220 Towers .... LOOK OUT

L

LITTLEBOYBLUE

passed by the 1220 towers (on 167 … not the other setup on Hwy 18) and noticed no lighting on there. I guess that only matters if there is, like, a regional airport within a couple miles or something. Not like those are SUPER tall towers that can't be maintained-- maybe a student at Green River who wants an extra $20??!

(Ironically I noticed this when returning from a trip where I happened to check out the Penthouse in the Rust Building in Tacoma to see what's happening with that space...)
 
LITTLEBOYBLUE said:
passed by the 1220 towers (on 167 … not the other setup on Hwy 18) and noticed no lighting on there. I guess that only matters if there is, like, a regional airport within a couple miles or something. Not like those are SUPER tall towers that can't be maintained-- maybe a student at Green River who wants an extra $20??!

(Ironically I noticed this when returning from a trip where I happened to check out the Penthouse in the Rust Building in Tacoma to see what's happening with that space...)
Click to expand...

There are many towers that are unlit, generally ones that are neither on hilltops nor in direct flight paths. There are even cases of stations that have shortened their tower to below 200' just to be able to avoid the cost of lighting.

https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/FCC_and_FAA_Tower_Marking_and_Lighting_Requirements has all the pertinent rules from the FAA and FCC.
 
One tower near my location, 1490 KBRO, is unlit and almost hidden amongst the trees in Forest Ridge Park. Wouldn't even know it was an AM broadcasting antenna tower unless you go the tower and see the barb wire fence with RF radiation warnings surrounding it.
 
1210 now, not 1220.

That station has a ridiculously bad signal for nearly 30,000 watts. It's spottier than 1590 and 1620 combined. Depending on where you are in their supposed coverage area, you either get it or you don't.
 
An AM site surrounded by trees isn't going to work. The trees devour the signal.
Back when they built that site, there probably weren't any trees. But lack of mowing and maintenance means those little twigs turn into actual trees over a few decades. And nobody cared about maintenance there for a verrrry long time.
 
swhyde1980 said:
One tower near my location, 1490 KBRO, is unlit and almost hidden amongst the trees in Forest Ridge Park. Wouldn't even know it was an AM broadcasting antenna tower unless you go the tower and see the barb wire fence with RF radiation warnings surrounding it.
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Towers under 200 feet dont need to be lit or painted.. and 1/4 wave at 1490 khz will be like 150-160 feet
 
I know it USED to be lit. But the key thing I was driving at is it is about .8 miles from the end of the Auburn Regional Airport (granted, it's almost parallel) so a bigger concern than just "the light is out". But then, Auburn hasn't really had a decent plane crash since the late 1970's so we're due for a little drama....
 
There are about 3 studio type offices that look like they received a fresh coat of paint … ready for a new tenant. In fact, there was some guy sitting on the floor working on some kind of special computer and didn't seem too upset/interested that I poked in and took some pictures. The space, though, as I remember it, has been split where other tenants have taken over office space and the three studios are ready for a new tenant. Still have the sound-proof windows that allow one room to look into another.
 
Roxanne said:
An AM site surrounded by trees isn't going to work. The trees devour the signal.
Back when they built that site, there probably weren't any trees. But lack of mowing and maintenance means those little twigs turn into actual trees over a few decades. And nobody cared about maintenance there for a verrrry long time.
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I've found that as long as the site itself (the area that radials cover) is clear, vegetation does not seem to make a difference. I had one site where all around us there was scrub land with kind of bushy growth. The land was converted into a banana plantation, with thick, thick vegetation for nearly a mile in every direction. Our measured signal did not change.
 
That's probably true. However, driving past the 1210 site over the years, I was always amazed at how close the trees were to the tower. Nobody was doing anything to keep the radiating space clear, let alone the rest of the fenced in area.

Not really the engineer's job to do much other than recommend somebody bring in some heavy brush equipment and clear it out before it becomes timber.

Also, thanks to WikiPedia, I learned that banana plants grow to about 16 feet at maturity. No big deal compared to the wavelength at 1210. However, the scrub oaks and other woodsy fodder in these parts often get up well past 50-75 feet. That's tall enough to have a serious effect on a signal. The 1210 is more of a nature preserve than a TX site.
 
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Roxanne said:
That's probably true. However, driving past the 1210 site over the years, I was always amazed at how close the trees were to the tower. Nobody was doing anything to keep the radiating space clear, let alone the rest of the fenced in area.

Not really the engineer's job to do much other than recommend somebody bring in some heavy brush equipment and clear it out before it becomes timber.

Also, thanks to WikiPedia, I learned that banana plants grow to about 16 feet at maturity. No big deal compared to the wavelength at 1210. However, the scrub oaks and other woodsy fodder in these parts often get up well past 50-75 feet. That's tall enough to have a serious effect on a signal. The 1210 is more of a nature preserve than a TX site.
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Actually, growers tend to let a number of plants grow taller to shade the juvenile and young adult plants. They can be well over 20 feet high. Some growers put a different variety of tree among the banana crop as both windbreakers and protection against the most direct sunlight... just as they do on good coffee plantations.

The real issue with trees and such lies when they are on the site itself, as they will cause deterioration, changes in electrical characteristics and even break the radials... often changing the impedance and reactance values of the antenna or antenna system.

Once deeply rooted growth takes place on a site, it has to be cleared by hand, as any machine clearing will destroy the radials. I've seen it tried, and it was ugly and, in the end, expensive.
 
Bongwater said:
1210 now, not 1220.

That station has a ridiculously bad signal for nearly 30,000 watts. It's spottier than 1590 and 1620 combined. Depending on where you are in their supposed coverage area, you either get it or you don't.
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It appears that what is now KMIA hasn't been on 1220 for 40 years or more! The CDBS entry only goes back to 1979 and it was 1210 then. As I recall, they made the move shortly after the Victoria B.C. station moved from 1220 to 1200.
 
SomeRadioGuy said:
Towers under 200 feet dont need to be lit or painted.. and 1/4 wave at 1490 khz will be like 150-160 feet
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Interesting that KBRO got put into this conversation about KMIA, but Radioguy is right. That tower doesn't need to be painted (or lit) and never has been. The vegetation over there was an issue when they moved from the Bremerton waterfront in the early '60s, and always has been, as were the difficulties in building a decent ground system. It's on a fairly thickly forested hill, next two two of the city's reservoir tanks. Best I can figure, putting it there was a political and PR move (read "low rent") for the city and the original owners. It's also true that you once could see more of it. In the '70s, when my family moved here, I think nearly half was visible. Their FM was also mounted on it at the time.

My daughter and I take care of broadcast equipment at a couple dozen locations in Washington, Oregon and Idaho. Out of all of those towers, 8 of them are high enough to need lights. Unlit (or unpainted) towers are not uncommon. Vegetation is an issue at a few, though we didn't notice a huge difference when I finally got regular mowing contracted at them. Radial damage is a concern, however, as DavidEduardo says.

Over in E. WA, one of my towers is in the middle of a swamp, thickly covered with reeds and cat tails. It was like that when I was a board op & engineer there in '74. It's likely to be that way forever (somewhat swampy even in the summer), yet has always had great coverage.

KMIA's tower registrations indicate their day towers are 59.1 meters, or about 194 feet high. That puts them under 200 feet... no lights needed. Bring up their license (easy enough for anyone here to have done in the CDBS public files section) and there's no mention of paint or lights. Apparently, the airport isn't a factor, if it ever was.
 
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And that Victoria station (the old CKXM-1200 Country) is now The Zone, CJZN, 91.3 FM. 1200 was blank in the Northwest from 2001, until CJRJ Vancouver went on in 2006.
As for Larry's response re: KMIA's coverage area, they weren't that strong in Bothell, but was listenable. On the other hand, Thurston County is literally in the fringe area on Radio-Locator, what? 40 miles from Auburn? Of course, if you live close to KMIA, it really doesn't matter about signal, as 1210 bled throughout a good part of the band at a family member's house near the Fred Meyer.
 
crainbebo said:
And that Victoria station (the old CKXM-1200 Country) is now The Zone, CJZN, 91.3 FM. 1200 was blank in the Northwest from 2001, until CJRJ Vancouver went on in 2006.
As for Larry's response re: KMIA's coverage area, they weren't that strong in Bothell, but was listenable. On the other hand, Thurston County is literally in the fringe area on Radio-Locator, what? 40 miles from Auburn? Of course, if you live close to KMIA, it really doesn't matter about signal, as 1210 bled throughout a good part of the band at a family member's house near the Fred Meyer.
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Of course before that, the Victoria station was Top 40 and provided a third choice for Vancouverites besides CFUN and CKLG.
 
semoochie said:
It appears that what is now KMIA hasn't been on 1220 for 40 years or more! The CDBS entry only goes back to 1979 and it was 1210 then. As I recall, they made the move shortly after the Victoria B.C. station moved from 1220 to 1200.
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But they didn't actually move to 1210 until the '80s. They were on 1220 up until about 1986. CKDA still killed them north of Seattle. CKDA moved to 1200 about the same time KASY moved to 1210
 
Bongwater said:
But they didn't actually move to 1210 until the '80s. They were on 1220 up until about 1986. CKDA still killed them north of Seattle. CKDA moved to 1200 about the same time KASY moved to 1210
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OK, only 32 years, I thought they were on 1220 when they interviewed me about Mt. Saint Helens.
 
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