Two stations to keep an eye on...

[radiodx10]

And not in a good way.

I fear; seeing this month's numbers- the next few stations on the proverbial chopping block are WPHI 103.9 and......Ben FM.

Now, let's start with the obvious one. WPHI is at a measly 1.4. NJ 101.5, an out-of-market station, is doing better than them. WXPN is beating them. Seeing as how WPHI has a weak signal, with barely any building penetration, that's a station that's always had trouble, going back to the WDRE (god I miss WDRE) days. It's a radio one station, and I don't think they'll flip it any time soon, unless someone else gives them a big ol bag of cash. WUSL has a typical philly signal and is at 3.7, average for them, playing the same format as WPHI. Power 99, however, has been doing that format for what, over twenty years? If you want new rap and hip hop, everyone knows it's power 99 where you go to. No one thinks oh, let's go to this flea-power signal station instead. WPHI I bet will see a change in the next five years.

Next up- Ben FM.

Firstly, this one is very hard to say. Ben FM has been jumping around a lot in ratings. They're at 2.4- but had a 3 share last book. They seem to average around 2.4-2.8, which isn't bad, but can't be making them a ton of money. 95.7 has been Ben FM for years, and has solid name recognition, which is a huge help. If you want 80s-90s variety pop and rock, you go to 95.7. Beasly has no real need to flip it, but within ten years, I think something will change.

Let's actually dive deeper though. Why the sizable drop from 3 to 2.4 for Ben? Well, two words. The. Breeze. I think the breeze is nothing short of a miracle. I haven't seen a station start from pretty much scratch to nearing a 5 share ever in Philly, at least in recent history. That void of soft rock and soft pop was filled big time by the breeze, and people who wanted something lighter and different from Ben probably heard it through the grapevine and their radios have been locked on 106.1 ever since. Although, I don't see many other stations having their numbers swept away by the breeze (See what i did there?)

This is all speculation, but I foresee Breeze-like copycats in the future.

 

[TheBigA]

This is all speculation, but I foresee Breeze-like copycats in the future.

Don't expect anything like that at 103.9. They don't call the company Urban One for nothing. They may have to reposition it a bit, since nobody can unseat WDAS. But they won't be playing Christopher Cross any time soon.

The problem with Ben is it needs to distinguish itself from the pack somehow. The musical environment keeps shifting, and Ben becomes collateral damage.

 

[CassChopper96]

Is it just me or do I think BEN fm is pretty safe for the time being

 

[TheBigA]

Is it just me or do I think BEN fm is pretty safe for the time being

Beasley seems to like the status quo.

 

[atthestars]

If I remember correctly, DavidEduardo pointed out that WPHI bills more each year than full-signaled WRFF. (I could be completely wrong on this... but I remember one of the Urban One small signals outbilled WRFF. With WPHI's signal size, where it covers, format, and parent company, I don't see them pulling the plug.

WBEN is cheap to run and makes decent money. Plus with it's format, the music can always be shifted this way or that way to fill in gaps

 

[nd2023]

They tried putting Urban on the full power 100.3 when they blew up Y100. That flopped. Eventually, Boom launched with throwbacks, then gradually shifted towards currents and moved to 103.9. Real 106.1 tried throwbacks on a full signal, that failed.
The Breeze is basically a continuation of Sunny 104.5. That station did about the same as 106.1 is doing now.
AC has been evolving hotter, leaving room for soft AC to recapture what audience AC had abandoned. Back when Sunny 104.5 was there, B101 sounded similar to what The Breeze sounds like now. Sunny had to go even softer and older.

 

[davideduardo]

If I remember correctly, DavidEduardo pointed out that WPHI bills more each year than full-signaled WRFF. (I could be completely wrong on this... but I remember one of the Urban One small signals outbilled WRFF. With WPHI's signal size, where it covers, format, and parent company, I don't see them pulling the plug.

Yep. WRNB outbills WRFF by a bit, and WPHI and WRFF are close to each other in revenue. WRFF has the slightly better signal. The other two stations, WPPZ and WPHI, are class A's with very limited signals.

 

[DOB]

I don't get it. IF WRFF is such a low billing station why wouldn't clear channel put on a classic rock station that nudges between WMGK and WMMR? It can't make any less money than WRFF does right now, there is nothing to lose.

 

[AbrahamJSimpson]

I don't get it. IF WRFF is such a low billing station why wouldn't clear channel put on a classic rock station that nudges between WMGK and WMMR? It can't make any less money than WRFF does right now, there is nothing to lose.

That’s a pretty narrow lane. And it might not be worth the necessary investment to squeeze in there compared to owning what they have, such as it is. Just a random thought.

 

[Miguelito]

I don't get it. IF WRFF is such a low billing station why wouldn't clear channel put on a classic rock station that nudges between WMGK and WMMR? It can't make any less money than WRFF does right now, there is nothing to lose.

If I owned WRFF, I'd certainly be looking for a way to make it more profitable. But trying to compete with WMMR and WMGK sounds like one of the riskiest gambles I can think of. Both stations have many ultra-loyal listeners who would probably consider switching allegiances only if you bribed them! I'd be less surprised if I awoke one day to find 104.5 as a full-time brokered station.

 

[Miguelito]

The Breeze is basically a continuation of Sunny 104.5.

The passage of time (and whiskey and wine) has really done a number on my memory. But when Sunny 104.5 returned (and I was around 30, I guess?), I was surprised to find that it was my favorite station. I listened almost exclusively and they made me completely lose touch with then-current music. Through just about all of their format tinkerings, I could tune to 104.5 and leave it on all day. (And that includes Christmastime. I had no use for B101 in those days.)

I admittedly don't listen to terrestrial much these days but I gotta say, I could never listen to The Breeze for more than maybe an hour. I'm glad they're doing well, don't get me wrong, but they are just not my cup of tea or whiskey or wine. Every time I've listened, it's been maybe 30 minutes before they played a song that made me turn it off. Plus the whole presentation is just so flat and dull and boring. Even though it was operated like a jukebox, Sunny at least had a fun sound. I could still sing you the jingles if you were sitting right here. (But you're not. Which is good because that would be quite alarming. I don't even know you!)

Anyway, all of this is to say that I just don't/can't equate what's happening on 106.1 now with what they were doing with Sunny 104.5. Except for the format name.

 

[davideduardo]

I don't get it. IF WRFF is such a low billing station why wouldn't clear channel put on a classic rock station that nudges between WMGK and WMMR? It can't make any less money than WRFF does right now, there is nothing to lose.

Those two are heritage stations. They have the trust of buyers and advertisers and it would take a long time to make inroads into their billing. Remember, revenue trails ratings as advertisers who use rating generally look at 3 to 6 months of data to make decisions, not single reports.

 

[radiodx10]

Well here's my two cents on WRFF. As a college-aged millennial (i really hate that term though) I love their format. Alt rock is my go to any time of day, but admittedly some of their music is a bit too pop for me. Regardless, I can tell you if you go to the campuses around philly, Radio 104.5 and MMR are the most well known stations. So many of the rock fans my age are either alt rock (WRFF) or classic and hard rock (MMR). So while Radio 104.5 may not be doing the best, it has serious name recognition with the younger crowd. Now how to make it more profitable? I don't really have an answer.

 

[Miguelito]

... WRFF. ... Now how to make it more profitable? I don't really have an answer.

WRFF is in a really bad situation here. I believe the only way to make it more profitable would be to make practically every one else less profitable--which ain't gonna happen. Advertisers don't buy WRFF because they have so many better ways (stations) to reach the audience they're targeting. WRFF isn't bad, nor doing anything wrong; there are simply other options that ad buyers go to first.

 

[radiodx10]

Lemme ask you this, do most alt rock stations deal with this same problem of advertisers not wanting to advertise on alt rock stations? According to radio-locator: the most popular (I guess which equates successful money wise) are WNYL 92.3 in NYC, WWDC 101.1 in DC, and WSFS 104.3 Miramar, FL. I get it that alt rock by its very nature is music that isn't "Mainstream" but by this point alt rock is charting all over the place.

Twenty one pilots, the lumineers, coldplay- all these bands are topping charts and making money. Monetizing an alt rock station shouldn't be that hard but I'm not an advertising guy so sure I'd think it would be easy.

I think WRFF, which is twelve years old this year, has a problem to solve, but might not be that difficult to solve. I know if you get a good group of marketers, they can start making WRFF money. I think by this point, every major market should have one alt rock station since the music is very popular and extremely successful. Not only that, but 90s grunge and pop punk is slowly becoming the new classic rock. Classic rockers are playing more and more early 90s, like STP, Collective soul, counting crows. There's no excuse for alt rock to be seen as this unlistenable "f the man" sorta music. It's not even close. That's college radio.

 

[lawman]

In the case of WRFF, advertisers are content, management is happy, all is well, with a stations that has more local full time air talent and personality than any music station in town, everyone is satisfied with their existence, except the constant axe grinders. In fact, maybe they are too much personality for an alternative station. CASE CLOSED ON WRFF, you want dry, more cutting edge alternative, purchase an HD radio and tune in alt 96.5 HD2, they seem to be putting a great effort into it, even dropped the HD3, I hear Philly, to enhance the HD2.

 

[atthestars]

Lemme ask you this, do most alt rock stations deal with this same problem of advertisers not wanting to advertise on alt rock stations? According to radio-locator: the most popular (I guess which equates successful money wise) are WNYL 92.3 in NYC, WWDC 101.1 in DC, and WSFS 104.3 Miramar, FL. I get it that alt rock by its very nature is music that isn't "Mainstream" but by this point alt rock is charting all over the place.

Can't really compare any of those stations/markets.

WWDC is a fairly heritage station that has flowed between some version of Alt/Active rock through the years. Ratings are OK.. but nothing off the chart.

WNYL and WSFS are both newer Alt stations in markets that had fairly large gaps since the last Alt station. While serving a purpose in their respective markets, there are other/better ways for advertisers to reach who they want in said markets. Just because the stations are in large markets doesn't mean they're making $$. (And remember, WPHI in Philly is making about the same $$ as WRFF, on a much MUCH smaller signal)

Twenty one pilots, the lumineers, coldplay- all these bands are topping charts and making money. Monetizing an alt rock station shouldn't be that hard but I'm not an advertising guy so sure I'd think it would be easy.

Again, it all depends on each market. In Philly, there are heritage stations that have the male demographic locked up VERY well (WIP, WMMR), so advertisers don't have to look elsewhere to reach who they want. Sure, people listen to WRFF. But if you want to target the male demographic, there are better outlets for it.

Not only that, but 90s grunge and pop punk is slowly becoming the new classic rock. Classic rockers are playing more and more early 90s, like STP, Collective soul, counting crows.

Which means WRFF will even have to battle (to a small extent) WMGK, who already gets better numbers. Just like a CHR station or a Classic Hits station, WRFF examines their playlist, and figures out what tracks they can drop from the library as they essentially age out. You don't hear WRFF play any 80s Alternative, as the target demographic barely remembers/doesn't remember that time/music.

WRFF is in a tough spot with competition from WMMR, WIP, WPEN, WMGK etc. But iHeart has seemed content to let them do their thing. Whether as a local cluster strategy, or as part of the iHeart image overall, having a solid Alternative station in a large market like Philly where they can pull in artists/get interviews etc. to use on all of their Alt stations could prove useful.

As long as WRFF exists, I'll personally listen. It's my main go-to. But there's no real magic switch for them to flip to suddenly make it super-profitable.

 

[Miguelito]

Can't really compare any of those stations/markets.

WWDC is a fairly heritage station that has flowed between some version of Alt/Active rock through the years. Ratings are OK.. but nothing off the chart.

WNYL and WSFS are both newer Alt stations in markets that had fairly large gaps since the last Alt station. While serving a purpose in their respective markets, there are other/better ways for advertisers to reach who they want in said markets. Just because the stations are in large markets doesn't mean they're making $$. (And remember, WPHI in Philly is making about the same $$ as WRFF, on a much MUCH smaller signal)



Again, it all depends on each market. In Philly, there are heritage stations that have the male demographic locked up VERY well (WIP, WMMR), so advertisers don't have to look elsewhere to reach who they want. Sure, people listen to WRFF. But if you want to target the male demographic, there are better outlets for it.

Which means WRFF will even have to battle (to a small extent) WMGK, who already gets better numbers. Just like a CHR station or a Classic Hits station, WRFF examines their playlist, and figures out what tracks they can drop from the library as they essentially age out. You don't hear WRFF play any 80s Alternative, as the target demographic barely remembers/doesn't remember that time/music.

WRFF is in a tough spot with competition from WMMR, WIP, WPEN, WMGK etc. But iHeart has seemed content to let them do their thing. Whether as a local cluster strategy, or as part of the iHeart image overall, having a solid Alternative station in a large market like Philly where they can pull in artists/get interviews etc. to use on all of their Alt stations could prove useful.

As long as WRFF exists, I'll personally listen. It's my main go-to. But there's no real magic switch for them to flip to suddenly make it super-profitable.

Agreed on all points. Also, a lot of the main artists at Alt (for instance, the aforementioned Twenty One Pilots, Lumineers, and Coldplay) are on other stations that advertisers are already buying (CHR, AC, and Hot AC would be examples).

I really don't think WRFF is in any trouble right now. If it's ever gonna be replaced by something else, iHeart will want to know that that something else has long-term legs.

 

[davideduardo]

I think WRFF, which is twelve years old this year, has a problem to solve, but might not be that difficult to solve. I know if you get a good group of marketers, they can start making WRFF money. I think by this point, every major market should have one alt rock station since the music is very popular and extremely successful. Not only that, but 90s grunge and pop punk is slowly becoming the new classic rock. Classic rockers are playing more and more early 90s, like STP, Collective soul, counting crows. There's no excuse for alt rock to be seen as this unlistenable "f the man" sorta music. It's not even close. That's college radio.

The issue, as already stated by others, is that there are better ways of reaching men via radio than WRFF. They include both sports stations and the two more classic rockers and the country and r&b stations. Agencies don't often buy deep enough to get to WRFF and the others, particularly WIP-FM, deliver men very efficiently.

 

[Miguelito]

The issue, as already stated by others, is that there are better ways of reaching men via radio than WRFF. They include both sports stations and the two more classic rockers and the country and r&b stations. Agencies don't often buy deep enough to get to WRFF and the others, particularly WIP-FM, deliver men very efficiently.

And that reminds me of another point that's been rolling around in my head: The other option is tinkering with WRFF so that it caters more to females. But that would basically turn the station into Mix 95.7 or Max 95.7 and, though it's been some time since those disasters, I think our current radio dial would make that format even more disastrous. So again, I think WRFF will remain as is for quite some time.