WGN Reception

[Cincinnati Kid]

I have noticed in very recent years how much better WGN can be received in southwestern Ohio at night than in years past. I can remember back into the early 1960's when WGN's night-time signal was basically swamped by WLW in this area. This included a number of radios I had access to at that time. The best chance of hearing WGN was on an old Halicrafters table-sized set that had an AM band. Now, on just a table-model radio, the WGN signal comes in great on most nights and has no overlap from WLW whose transmitter and tower are about 20 miles from my home. Did WGN do something to assist with their signal reception here (and perhaps elsewhere) or would it be something else?

 

[radioman148]

My guess is the reason would be something else. I don't know of any changes in WGN's transmission.

 

[semoochie]

At some point in time that I have been unable to ascertain, WLW reduced the length of its antenna from 831 feet to 747 feet. This is because it was discovered that very tall antennas create interference between the groundwave and skywave signals. The only construction permit listed is 1978 so maybe that's when it happened. There used to be an FCC database prior to CDBS but I can't remember what it was called. It might be in there.

 

[DaveBayArea]

Is it possible that WLW used to run HD and they turned it off?

Dave B.

 

[KeithE4]

Would the removal of the WBBM tower a mile (roughly) SSE of the WGN transmitter site have any effect?

 

[davideduardo]

Would the removal of the WBBM tower a mile (roughly) SSE of the WGN transmitter site have any effect?

Unlikely. That old WBBM tower was tuned to be optimized 780, with its bandwidth rolled off at 770 and at 790. Given the distance, WGN likely had RF filters from 770 to 790 to avoid WBBM being received by the tower and fed into the WGN transmitter.

 

[KeithE4]

Unlikely. That old WBBM tower was tuned to be optimized 780, with its bandwidth rolled off at 770 and at 790. Given the distance, WGN likely had RF filters from 770 to 790 to avoid WBBM being received by the tower and fed into the WGN transmitter.

I was thinking more about the physical tower+radial system itself, regardless of what was connected to it, acting as a passive element even though they were around 4 wavelengths apart.

 

[davideduardo]

I was thinking more about the physical tower+radial system itself, regardless of what was connected to it, acting as a passive element even though they were around 4 wavelengths apart.

It's doubtful that the other tower would affect skywave. Any directional effect by a detuned tower would be by a tiny amount only on groundwave.

 

[staggmovie]

I have noticed in very recent years how much better WGN can be received in southwestern Ohio at night than in years past. I can remember back into the early 1960's when WGN's night-time signal was basically swamped by WLW in this area. This included a number of radios I had access to at that time. The best chance of hearing WGN was on an old Halicrafters table-sized set that had an AM band. Now, on just a table-model radio, the WGN signal comes in great on most nights and has no overlap from WLW whose transmitter and tower are about 20 miles from my home. Did WGN do something to assist with their signal reception here (and perhaps elsewhere) or would it be something else?

Like radioman, I am not aware of any changes in transmission, plus I don't live in southwest Ohio, so I haven't known or been aware that it can be heard better in this year, then in a lot of years. At night WGN Radio can be heard better in other cities outside of Illinois.

 

[Yabadabado1]

I live in NE Ohio. Back in te 70s and 80s, I was able to pick up WLW pretty much anytime, day or night like it was a local. Now, at nighttime I can still get them but nowhere near as good as it used to be, fades in and out, scratchy signal, etc. I'm assuming it's because there so much other crap out there now putting RF noise onto the band. However, at night, WGN comes in like a local. Pretty much all the Chicago stations do now that I think of it.

 

[Cincinnati Kid]

Perhaps it may have more to do with WLW cutting out something that caused its signal to go onto 710 kc or even 720 kc than changes on the WGN side of things. When there was the problem hearing WGN, their signal was there, but it seemed very thin (if that is how to describe radio reception) and many times, you would hear WLW coming in. I recall trying to listen to the Sandy Koufax perfect game against the Cubs in September, 1965. Reception was such that you could pick up what was taking place, but there was that fading with WLW edging in. I wonder how WLW is received there in the Chicago area now? I remember being at a Reds-Cubs game at Wrigley Field with a portable radio in June. 1969 and picking up the Reds' coverage of that game via WLW with no problem. I find it somewhat interesting from the last post that WLW isn't heard in northeastern Ohio as it once was.

 

[cyberdad]

I wonder how WLW is received there in the Chicago area now? I remember being at a Reds-Cubs game at Wrigley Field with a portable radio in June. 1969 and picking up the Reds' coverage of that game via WLW with no problem. I find it somewhat interesting from the last post that WLW isn't heard in northeastern Ohio as it once was.

Where I live, 40 miles northwest of downtown Chicago, WLW daytime is typically is barely audible on a (really) good radio. At night WLW blasts in.

As for WGN, just speaking from my own personal experience in my travels and in listening to online receivers in other locations, WGN's signal does seem to have improved over the past few years. At least nighttime skywave. It used to be when I was on the road and wanted to hear Chicagp, WBBM was the first go-to, Now WGN is typically right there with it (and, for that matter, so is usually WLS.). As you may know, WBBM dropped to 42kw nights when they moved to WSCR's tower, but i haven't noticed any significant difference in their nighttime skywave signal.

 

[staggmovie]

Where I live, 40 miles northwest of downtown Chicago, WLW daytime is typically is barely audible on a (really) good radio. At night WLW blasts in.

As for WGN, just speaking from my own personal experience in my travels and in listening to online receivers in other locations, WGN's signal does seem to have improved over the past few years. At least nighttime skywave. It used to be when I was on the road and wanted to hear Chicagp, WBBM was the first go-to, Now WGN is typically right there with it (and, for that matter, so is usually WLS.). As you may know, WBBM dropped to 42kw nights when they moved to WSCR's tower, but i haven't noticed any significant difference in their nighttime skywave signal.

I don't know how much of a traveler you are, I am not as frequent as a traveler, through at the end of last year, I was in the area of Seattle Washington, for one of two memorial services that was taking place. And one thing that never really did come to my mind, was seeing how good of a reception of WGN Radio that we could get late at night, even through Seattle is 2 hours behind Chicago.

 

[semoochie]

Is it possible that WLW used to run HD and they turned it off?

Dave B.

Cincinnati Kid said he experienced the problem in the early 1960s and it's better now.

 

[davideduardo]

Perhaps it may have more to do with WLW cutting out somthing

Yes, in the 60's there was no NRSC 10 kHz cut-off of audio bandwidth, and the better stations with broadband antennas could occupy much more spectrum with "splatter" from modulation. So hearing 720 near WLW might have been hard, while today the NRSC limits make it much easier.

 

[radioman148]

Where I live, 40 miles northwest of downtown Chicago, WLW daytime is typically is barely audible on a (really) good radio. At night WLW blasts in.

As for WGN, just speaking from my own personal experience in my travels and in listening to online receivers in other locations, WGN's signal does seem to have improved over the past few years. At least nighttime skywave. It used to be when I was on the road and wanted to hear Chicagp, WBBM was the first go-to, Now WGN is typically right there with it (and, for that matter, so is usually WLS.). As you may know, WBBM dropped to 42kw nights when they moved to WSCR's tower, but i haven't noticed any significant difference in their nighttime skywave signal.

Agreed that WGN Is the first Chicago signal I go to when listening on the road or on a remote receiver. WBBM used to be my first go to, but I've noticed this year that WGN has been there when I listen to the Hawaii SDR. It used to be that WBBM was a bit better, but not this year so far.

 

[mofocat]

Are your receivers newer, DSP design? -- the selectivity on these new designs is spectacular.

 

[cyberdad]

I don't know how much of a traveler you are, I am not as frequent as a traveler, through at the end of last year, I was in the area of Seattle Washington, for one of two memorial services that was taking place. And one thing that never really did come to my mind, was seeing how good of a reception of WGN Radio that we could get late at night, even through Seattle is 2 hours behind Chicago.

For nearly 40 years I was on the road just about every week. I racked up 49 states, coast to coast in Canada and eight countries in Europe. Always with at least one radio (in addition to the radio in my company or rental car). When I began my career, WGN was actually a relatively easy nighttime catch in most West Coast locations. Then in the mid 70s, KDWN in Las Vegas came on with 10kw at night and most of its night signal beamed east. You could sometimes hear WGN underneath KDWN sometimes (I'd listen for Eddie Schwartz' voice to cut through). But in the 1980s, even that became more difficult when KDWN went to 50kw fulltime.

As for Seattle, WGN has always been tough duty due to local 50kw KIRO on 710. I've never heard WGN in Seattle, although I have heard them in Vancouver and Portland. But not recently. There's also a 710 in Los Angeles, KSPN, But they drop to 10kw at night and are much easier to null than KIRO.

 

[BarryATL]

For nearly 40 years I was on the road just about every week. I racked up 49 states, coast to coast in Canada and eight countries in Europe. Always with at least one radio (in addition to the radio in my company or rental car). When I began my career, WGN was actually a relatively easy nighttime catch in most West Coast locations. Then in the mid 70s, KDWN in Las Vegas came on with 10kw at night and most of its night signal beamed east. You could sometimes hear WGN underneath KDWN sometimes (I'd listen for Eddie Schwartz' voice to cut through). But in the 1980s, even that became more difficult when KDWN went to 50kw fulltime.

As for Seattle, WGN has always been tough duty due to local 50kw KIRO on 710. I've never heard WGN in Seattle, although I have heard them in Vancouver and Portland. But not recently. There's also a 710 in Los Angeles, KSPN, But they drop to 10kw at night and are much easier to null than KIRO.

KDWN has a construction permit to REDUCE day power 50 25,000 watts and night to 7,500 watts.

 

[radioman148]

For nearly 40 years I was on the road just about every week. I racked up 49 states, coast to coast in Canada and eight countries in Europe. Always with at least one radio (in addition to the radio in my company or rental car). When I began my career, WGN was actually a relatively easy nighttime catch in most West Coast locations. Then in the mid 70s, KDWN in Las Vegas came on with 10kw at night and most of its night signal beamed east. You could sometimes hear WGN underneath KDWN sometimes (I'd listen for Eddie Schwartz' voice to cut through). But in the 1980s, even that became more difficult when KDWN went to 50kw fulltime.

As for Seattle, WGN has always been tough duty due to local 50kw KIRO on 710. I've never heard WGN in Seattle, although I have heard them in Vancouver and Portland. But not recently. There's also a 710 in Los Angeles, KSPN, But they drop to 10kw at night and are much easier to null than KIRO.

In order to escape some of Chicago's brutal winter weather I'm currently spending some time in the Coachella Valley in Southern California. I have been able to hear WGN a few times and this was never the case since KDWN went on the air in the 70s. I mentioned in another thread that KDWN's signal is severely degraded. I don't know what the reason is, but I can say that the signal is much weaker than what I've experienced in the past. Also, when tuning on the Kaneohe, Hawaii SDR I don't even hear KDWN. Anyone know what's going on at KDWN's transmitting facility?