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KGO/KSFO Morning changes
- Thread starter umfan
- Start date
KSFO may be 5,000 watts to KGO's 50,000, but the usable signal within the metro that Nielsen measures is pretty much as good. And KSFO is the stronger station in the ratings and has been for most of the past decade. In the December (non-holida) book, KSFO had a 2.3 to KGO's 1.5 (6+).
If I were Jack and Joe, I'd consider this a promotion.
If you're located at the lower end of the AM dial, you don't need as much power to get the job done. In another thread this week, we're having a conversatio about AM signals in Kansas City. The unanimous opinion is that the 5kw station on 610 has a better groundwave (day) signal than the 50kw station on 810.
That's also been my own experience in that part of the world.
In the Bay Area back in the day, 610 KFRC (also 5kw) also had a great signal, and could be heard at night 400+ miles away in the Los Angeles area.
Plus, 810 has a pretty good null to the East in their figure-8 pattern. There are now way more people in that null compared to when they first came on the air.
Dave B.
Dave B.
But the market does not extend out of the day and night signal area of KGO. In fact, the market almost perfectly matches the signal of KGO... from Santa Rosa to Gilroy. No station cares if they get a signal out of the Nielsen Metro Survey Area (which is not the same as the government Metropolitan Statistical Area).
I can hear 810 way better in Wyoming at sunrise and when they dont power down/change pattern.... here's a clip around sunrise
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SjYA1kclnoOPWhnUhePjd-ReVt1qd0E9/view?usp=sharing
I am not sure I've ever heard 610 worth a crap here./
Someone alert Lieberman!
Yes at this point nothing really matters what Cumulus does to 810 KGO and 560 KSFO though. I do not know if even the median demo cares what KGO-AM or KSFO-AM are today though. The answer will always end in KQED-FM is the top News/Talk station in the Bay Area.
Sure yes Cumulus has KGO-AM and KSFO-AM to clear the Westwood One talk shows though.
From a Southern California perspective directional pattern gain brings KGO and KCBS to the foreground. Also, not discounting listener observations about ground wave at all, but consider this:
1. It's not just low band vs high band, it is also the path from transmitter to listener.
2. Seems to me AM station location on the bay shore- east, west, north, south is a life-changing choice for this market.
1. It's not just low band vs high band, it is also the path from transmitter to listener.
2. Seems to me AM station location on the bay shore- east, west, north, south is a life-changing choice for this market.
Yup - growing up in LA, I would DX 610/KFRC because I liked the contrast to our local Drake Top 40 station - 93/KHJ, but at age 12 or whatever; I didn't give a crap about talk radio. But I recall that my mother would listen to Ira Blue on KGO at night sometimes, from our home near Glendale.
I just know that there are a couple of weird nulls (I used to live in one) by Fremont and another one up by Dublin where noise becomes dominant. I never listened to KSFO much but any time I checked they were quite a bit stronger than KGO out in Contra Costa county. Pattern-wise it looks like they do better out there:
http://nf8m.com/pattern_maps/current/DAYTIME-UNLIMITED/DAYTIME-UNLIMITED_810KHz-1.html
http://nf8m.com/pattern_maps/current/DAYTIME-UNLIMITED/DAYTIME-UNLIMITED_560KHz-1.html
But you're right. KGO wins hands down in Gilroy & Santa Rosa.
Dave B.
Another observation from San Diego: KSFO can barely be heard... also, KCBS 740 consistently comes in stronger at night than KGO (although both routinely have good listenable signals). Is it because KCBS' North Bay transmitter location forces them to push almost all their signal south-southeast towards S.F, San Jose... and eventually SoCal?
Yes.
But... the pattern is not because they picked the transmitter location and then adjusted the radiation. it is the opposite. The protection of other stations on 740 require them to protect Canada, so to have 50 kw, the only option was to locate the transmitter to the north of the market way-back-when. Of course, the metro for Nielsen goes much farther north now, so they don't have a good night signal that way.
KGO has two major lobes, NNW and SSE. KCBS is located to the north side of the Bay and most of the signal goes SSE. So the amount of power towards LA and San Diego is significantly greater.
For a metro map from Nielsen (showing all markets) try this: https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Arbitron/Market-Maps/Arb_US_Metro_Map_19.pdf
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That was the difference between Tom Rounds and Ron Jacobs as programmers under Drake's supervision.
Rounds left the Drake system first, not liking the insistence on being more pop when San Francisco was going more rock. Jacobs followed soon, and together with Casey Kasem they created American Top 40.
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