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HD on WINS and WCBS AM
- Thread starter mets18
- Start date
WCBS is available in HD on 101.1-HD2, and WINS at 102.7-HD3.
The FM HD signals sound better than AM HD, their coverage is more robust and they don't degrade the main channel audio quality like AM IBOC does. So the FM HD channels would be the ones to promote along with the streaming app which gives listeners all the options they need, while the noise-spewing AM IBOC is unnecessary.
The FM HD signals sound better than AM HD, their coverage is more robust and they don't degrade the main channel audio quality like AM IBOC does. So the FM HD channels would be the ones to promote along with the streaming app which gives listeners all the options they need, while the noise-spewing AM IBOC is unnecessary.
The problem is that AM HD is not high definition. It is a little better than analog AM, but it is laden with artifacts. And, particularly, it is susceptible to horrible results when the source audio has been through compression processes; it is often called "dueling algorithms".
The AM analog signal can be 10 kHz "wide" without HD. It is limited to 5 kHz bandwidth with HD (although some stations have experimented with 6 kHz limiting). In any case, it degrades the analog system to enable a very questionable digital system.
The bigger issue with AM is that in the top 100 US markets, there are less than an average of 2 AM stations per market that cover at least 80% of the entire area day and night. Most AM stations in major markets just don't have the signal to compete. NYC is an exception, as it has about a half dozen AMs that can be called full signal facilities or close to that.
When the two Seattle area AM HD IBOC stations still had HD running, it didn't sound bad, in fact it was an improvement over their analog signal. As for bandwidth, I was under the impression from numerous comments on RD over the years that AM stations haven't run 10khz bandwidth since the 1980's. I think 3-4 khz is standard, or somewhere thereabouts. 5 KHz would be an improvement.
I agree that AM HD is not on par with FM HD but it is a far better listening experience than analog AM on a 3 KHZ bandwidth radio.
If you have ever heard KMOX 1120 Khz in HD you would change your mind about the quality difference. That station can sound stunning when good source material is running.
It has reached a point where some AM stations should consider going HD only. ALL HD AM sounds good, I'm told.
I believe KMOX can also be heard at 102.5 KEZK-FM-HD3, and via the Radio.com app, which again makes the noisy IBOC AM HD signal redundant and unnecessary.
Great idea if the station wants no listeners or revenue. AM HD receivers are few and far between, and nobody cares.
An AM analog signal that can still be heard on any radio at least gives broadcasters a legacy presence. The upgrade path is now streaming apps and smart speakers.
Your statements are incorrect.
AM HD is not "noisy." When in HD mode the noise floor is waaay down there...far below what any human can hear.
Last figures I saw were that over a third of new vehicles come with HD radio capability. Some dealers are turning off the HD ability to keep new owners from filling up the service department with radio complaints. (The complaints are about FM HD and stations which do not time sync their HD and analog signals.)
BTW...I thought you said there were no HD radios out there. How does being on a HD3 help?
The day for AM stations to go all-HD hasn't arrived yet. The day for some of them to consider the idea -- along with other forms of digital delivery -- may appear sometime near the end of this decade, or early in the next one. As the band thins out (which it slowly is), even IBOC may be a good option. As I mentioned before, it sounded great on my Sony XDR radio when two local stations had it. Sounded like a decent stream. Sound quality, of course, may depend on the radio used.
Running AM HD Hybrid requires cutting down the audio bandwidth on the analog to make room for the digital modulation. I think HD on AM sounds awful on analog.
Running a simulcast on an FM HD subchannel allows the AM to use its full fidelity and allows those who have HD radios to find the AM programming on a lower interference channel if they so desire.
That is the very reason I'm told many dealers keep the HD turned off on new cars but the main complaint is FM stations who don't time sync the digital and analog signals. Some stations digital signals sound seconds off when my radio switches between analog and HD
WINS and WCBS were both using HD in the mode that allows up to 8 kHz analog audio bandwidth at the cost of reduced digital coverage.
KNX in L.A. also turned off their HD recently. But it's still on at WPHT in Philly (in the 5 kHz analog audio bandwidth mode).
KNX in L.A. also turned off their HD recently. But it's still on at WPHT in Philly (in the 5 kHz analog audio bandwidth mode).
KMOX stopped using their AM HD last year. One reason cited was the lack of available parts for the transmitter. A few months ago, I recorded the analog AM, HD-2 signal, and their internet stream through radio.com during their Saturday night program "Route 66." If anyone is interested, I could post the files here.
The only reason a station might use MA-3 all digital is if the station is so dead that it has nothing to lose, or if it has a full simulcast elsewhere, like a 500W AM with a 250W translator.
WINS or WCBS moving to MA-3 would immediately lose at least half their audience, probably more like 3/4.
WINS or WCBS moving to MA-3 would immediately lose at least half their audience, probably more like 3/4.
Have I missed something?
Are AM stations now transmitting multiple HD streams?
No, they can't. There isn't enough bandwidth to do so -- except possibly for the aforementioned digital-only mode which is not compatible with existing analog receivers.
Maybe someone can explain why WCBS and WINS still use AM HD transmission if both are available on FM HD... WCBS is on 101.1 WCBS-FM-HD2 and 102.7 WINS is on WNEW-FM-HD3. If you can hear these stations in better quality FM HD, why would you listen on AM HD? I would assume anyone who has an AM HD radio also has an FM HD radio.
Yes, AM HD is considerably better than AM analog. When I first got my 2016 VW, I knew it was equipped with FM HD. But when I tuned in WCBS and WINS on AM, I was startled by how good the AM stations sounded... till I realized they were transmitting in HD as well.
Does AM HD have a larger coverage area? Are WCBS and WINS afraid that people won't know where to hear them on FM, so they better have their AM transmitters running HD as well? I sometimes say to myself, I'd like to hear some news. At first, I think, I'll switch to 880 or 1010. But then I realize it's better if I tune in on FM, via HD subchannels.
Yes, AM HD is considerably better than AM analog. When I first got my 2016 VW, I knew it was equipped with FM HD. But when I tuned in WCBS and WINS on AM, I was startled by how good the AM stations sounded... till I realized they were transmitting in HD as well.
Does AM HD have a larger coverage area? Are WCBS and WINS afraid that people won't know where to hear them on FM, so they better have their AM transmitters running HD as well? I sometimes say to myself, I'd like to hear some news. At first, I think, I'll switch to 880 or 1010. But then I realize it's better if I tune in on FM, via HD subchannels.
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