Noory in denial

[PTBoardOp94]

I'm not sure anyone in the media has said anything negative about the drug.

There definitely was. A bunch of non-scientist journalists probably went and Googled chloroquine and wrote stories about what the found.

Here's one from Bloomberg highlighting the so-called toxicity: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...d-by-trump-musk-can-kill-with-just-two-grams?
And one from WaPo following the same angle: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/03/25/chloroquine-coronavirus-toxic-malaria/
There were more. The truth is that chloroquine is as safe as any other prescription drug. If I told this WaPo reporter that you could kill yourself by taking ~12 or so Tylenol in a day, I wonder what they would say...

Arguably the press coverage of the dude in Arizona who killed himself on fish tank cleaner was in the same vein.

 

[TheBigA]

There definitely was. A bunch of non-scientist journalists probably went and Googled chloroquine and wrote stories about what the found.

I don't see anything in those articles that is false. Two grams can kill you. That's twice the recommended dose. That's why one has to be careful. They're not saying they shouldn't be approved, but rather there are consequences and side effects. Everyone knows that. The president didn't give the context. There should be disclaimers. If you listen to any of the commercials running on TV for various drugs, you'll hear all kinds of side effects including suicidal tendencies and death. The difference is those drugs have been approved for use with those qualifications. That context is missing from the proponents of these drugs. And back to what I was saying before: Where are the national standards? Why is everything being left to governors?

 

[davideduardo]

As Frank pointed out, the FCC says that broadcasters cannot deliberately put out bogus information that harms the public. The line has been blurred given our current political climate. The people who won't accept Science & Facts are past the point of no return...

However, in this single case, the FCC rule does not apply.

There are many doctors, all over the country and the world, prescribing the anti-malarial drug or that drug in a combination with another. There is small but growing evidence it helps, but does not cure, in many cases.

But the media has taken positions on a subject that is not their area of expertise. And some politicians have followed the media.

This is a good case of people who are not experts using their bully pulpit to change or influence public policy.

 

[davideduardo]

I don't see anything in those articles that is false. Two grams can kill you. That's twice the recommended dose. That's why one has to be careful. They're not saying they shouldn't be approved, but rather there are consequences and side effects. Everyone knows that. The president didn't give the context. There should be disclaimers. If you listen to any of the commercials running on TV for various drugs, you'll hear all kinds of side effects including suicidal tendencies and death. The difference is those drugs have been approved for use with those qualifications. That context is missing from the proponents of these drugs. And back to what I was saying before: Where are the national standards? Why is everything being left to governors?

But there are national standards. A registered doctor can prescribe medicines for a secondary purpose. It's those particular governors who have jumped into the process to muddy the waters.

The main issue with using a drug for another purpose is that insurance companies either don't cover them or require special consent. The biggest impediments to using many medicines is the cost and the insurance coverage.

 

[TheBigA]

The main issue with using a drug for another purpose is that insurance companies either don't cover them or require special consent.

I would suggest the main issue is whether or not it's effective. Dr. Fauci says he doesn't know:

https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/...oxychloroquine-Effective-Against-COVID19.html

This is why Cuomo has approved the drug for clinical purposes, and only wants it given to people in controlled situations.

In the meantime, you have articles like this one that says it's effective as both a treatment and as a preventative:

https://www.*************/politics/...-as-effective-against-coronavirus-since-2005/

That's why this is a problem.

 

[davideduardo]

I would suggest the main issue is whether or not it's effective. Dr. Fauci says he doesn't know:

https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/...oxychloroquine-Effective-Against-COVID19.html

This is why Cuomo has approved the drug for clinical purposes, and only wants it given to people in controlled situations.

In the meantime, you have articles like this one that says it's effective as both a treatment and as a preventative:

https://www.*************/politics/...-as-effective-against-coronavirus-since-2005/

That's why this is a problem.

There are multiple small studies in Europe, as well as more anecdotal cases of physicians who have said "I prescribed it and not of my sick patients had to be hospitalized". Most of these are, so far, in Europe where the disease broke out earlier and in China, where we tend to mistrust the reports.

In any case, a governor should not be making these decisions just as my plumber should not be giving me investment advice.

If I develop symptoms (about which I pray constantly), I'd want my doctor alone to make the decision... not the governor or some other party politician.

 

[TheBigA]

If I develop symptoms (about which I pray constantly), I'd want my doctor alone to make the decision... not the governor or some other party politician.

Once again, the only thing the governor says is the drug should be used in hospitals, where they can monitor the situation and make sure patients take the recommended dose. You can read the order itself here:

https://www.newsday.com/news/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-drugs-1.43453088

Dr. Oz himself observed the reason the governor signed the order was prevent people who don't have the virus from hoarding it, preventing those who need it to get it.

 

[gr8oldies]

Trump is now prescribing it on national TV "what have you got to lose"? Licensees have to give a long list of disclaimers. Wouldn't be shocked if Trump or Jared have stock in the company that makes it.

 

[davideduardo]

Trump is now prescribing it on national TV "what have you got to lose"? Licensees have to give a long list of disclaimers. Wouldn't be shocked if Trump or Jared have stock in the company that makes it.

One of them, the malarial drug, at least, is generic... it has been around from the 50's. And the drug companies providing it are doing so below cost (at least that is what they are saying).

Drug companies have long been required to do extensive disclaimers. One that I have taken took small print (I needed glasses to read it) on two sides of a 6" x 10" paper. While this was years ago, I was fascinated by the length of the disclaimer, and looked at the disclaimer details and found that some were for things that had occurred to just a couple of users out of potentially millions and might even have been linked to a different medication or condition.

Lawyers and our litigious culture make that a requirement and increase the cost of life-saving drugs by millions and millions.

I took hydroxychloroquine back in 1963 when I got malaria in Nicaragua. I got the first symptoms after I had traveled to Costa Rica, and the physician the hotel called immediately gave me that drug.

That was 57 years ago, so I guess that a) it worked and b) it did not harm me. I'd take it again, even as a prophylactic were my doctor to recommend it.

I think that it is appropriate for any authority... a governor, a president, a mayor... to recommend considering the drugs because something that might work is better than nothing.

 

[davideduardo]

Dr. Oz himself observed the reason the governor signed the order was prevent people who don't have the virus from hoarding it, preventing those who need it to get it.

That is false logic by the governor, who is prone to that sort of reasoning due to an apparent overdose of partisanship. It is a prescription drug, and can only be dispensed via person-specific prescriptions to individuals or administered at doctors' offices.

Making the drug only administerable at health facilities requires at-risk people to travel to places that may be focus points of infection.

There appears to be no shortage of the drugs, and they can be manufactured in quantity very fast in multiple production facilities since they are apparently not covered by patents. In any event, I am rather confident that a request by the government would result in a contribution of the rights to the greater good of the nation... and the world.

 

[TheBigA]

That is false logic by the governor, who is prone to that sort of reasoning due to an apparent overdose of partisanship.

Not true. Has nothing to do with partisanship. I don't know where you get that idea. He spoke out in favor of the drug very early, and earned the praise of both Trump and Hannity. The only thing partisan about it is he agrees with Republicans:

https://www.nydailynews.com/coronav...0200320-zugwfthj2nembgu45q3egksyly-story.html

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/c...i-malaria-drugs-will-target-covid-19-symptoms

https://nypost.com/2020/03/23/ny-will-turn-to-experimental-drugs-for-worst-coronavirus-cases-cuomo/

If you notice, all of the dates on those stories are from two weeks ago. This has nothing to do with an executive order, because it was issued two weeks ago. Two weeks ago Hannity loved Cuomo and offered to help. Yesterday he stopped. What happened yesterday for Hannity to all of a sudden change his view on Cuomo? I don't know. That's why I say Hannity's opinion is misleading. He's leaving something out.

Making the drug only administerable at health facilities requires at-risk people to travel to places that may be focus points of infection.

If they're not infected why do they want to be prescribed the drug?

I am rather confident that a request by the government would result in a contribution of the rights to the greater good of the nation... and the world.

That would be wonderful. Let me know when the government does such a thing. In the meantime, it's every state for themself, and NY has a limited amount of the drug on hand.

 

[davideduardo]

Not true. Has nothing to do with partisanship. I don't know where you get that idea.

It is reported that Cuomo's administration will only allow the drug to be administered at hospitals (the term is "medical facilities" which could probably mean outpatient clinics, too). It can't be prescribed for drug store pickup by a person's doctor.

I read that in the NYT, and in the LA Times.

In any case, NY is requiring persons who want that drug to go to health care locations, and they can't just get a prescription from their doctor.

If they're not infected why do they want to be prescribed the drug?

There is a belief it may be, in some way, preventative. And it should be allowed instantly if a person shows any of the symptoms.

That would be wonderful. Let me know when the government does such a thing. In the meantime, it's every state for themself, and NY has a limited amount of the drug on hand.

I just saw a BBC report that there is adequate supply world-wide as it is easy to make and is taken in pill form, not requiring an injection or intubation or anything more complicated. Apparently, a lot of doctors in the UK are recommending it as a mild preventative that might lessen the effect if taken initially or prior to symptoms.

The caveat here is that rumors, in times of stress, become "facts" way to quickly.

 

[TheBigA]

It is reported that Cuomo's administration will only allow the drug to be administered at hospitals (the term is "medical facilities" which could probably mean outpatient clinics, too). It can't be prescribed for drug store pickup by a person's doctor.

Here's the quote: "An executive order issued by Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo this week limits prescriptions of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to COVID-19 patients in state-approved clinical trials, and for FDA-approved uses as an antimalarial or autoimmune treatment, and then only for a 14-day supply with no refills."

What's partisan about that? He's following the rules established by the FDA. Is the FDA partisan?

Of course it can't be picked up in stores. There'd be a run on it like there was on toilet paper. The stores around me are still out of stock after 3 weeks!

There is a belief it may be, in some way, preventative. And it should be allowed instantly if a person shows any of the symptoms.

A belief? Medicine is a science, not a belief. If there is science, then it should be approved for national use, not left up to the states or left up to the media or left up to politicians. What's wrong about that? You want to keep politicians out of it? Fine. Have the FDA approve it for personal use and say it's a cure. Not Dr. Hannity.

 

[Syfy]

And Art Bell rolls in his grave. How the mighty have fallen. I like when the show talks about the paranormal and UFOs, but his opinions on COVID-19 suck.

Also is why art bell said that he wanted basically nothing to do with the show after he left and wanted also premier networks to stop airing his somewhere in time broadcasts but they basically responded go to hell we own those shows and re broadcast rights and will use them as we please.

 

[davideduardo]

Here's the quote: "An executive order issued by Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo this week limits prescriptions of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to COVID-19 patients in state-approved clinical trials, and for FDA-approved uses as an antimalarial or autoimmune treatment, and then only for a 14-day supply with no refills."

What's partisan about that? He's following the rules established by the FDA. Is the FDA partisan?

Of course it can't be picked up in stores. There'd be a run on it like there was on toilet paper. The stores around me are still out of stock after 3 weeks!



A belief? Medicine is a science, not a belief. If there is science, then it should be approved for national use, not left up to the states or left up to the media or left up to politicians. What's wrong about that? You want to keep politicians out of it? Fine. Have the FDA approve it for personal use and say it's a cure. Not Dr. Hannity.

I am not saying it is "partisan". I am saying it is stupid.

The drug should be available by doctor's prescription for a single use for each patient of a primary care physician. No plastic surgeons, no urologists, no pediatricians.

There should be no further restrictions, and, particularly, no requirement to go to a hospital.

It should not only be for persons with a proven diagnosis, but also for those with what might be preliminary symptoms. Otherwise, the governor is saying he knows more than the doctors in New York state.

Cuomo's attitude is simply "It's my state and I'll do what I wanna".

 

[bobjim45]

Here's the quote: "An executive order issued by Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo this week limits prescriptions of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to COVID-19 patients in state-approved clinical trials, and for FDA-approved uses as an antimalarial or autoimmune treatment, and then only for a 14-day supply with no refills."

What's partisan about that? He's following the rules established by the FDA. Is the FDA partisan?

Of course it can't be picked up in stores. There'd be a run on it like there was on toilet paper. The stores around me are still out of stock after 3 weeks!

the FDA has already approved hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine, it was approved to treat malaria in the 1960's, once the FDA approves a drug, doctors (ER and primary) can prescribe the drug for an unapproved use when they judge that it is medically appropriate for their patient. The FDA isn't in the job to tell doctors what drugs to give to their patients. There are many reasons why a doctor would prescribe an off-label drug, which to treat covid-19 hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine it would be. Off-label prescribing is common, it accounts about 20 percent of all prescriptions written.

Cuomo's executive order bans doctors in an inpatient setting (going to the DR's office) from prescribing the drug. A person could be tested positive of Covid-19 but can't get a prescription even if the primary doctor thought the drug was medically appropriate with the patient approval because of the order. So the primary doctor tells the person go to the ER. These are the primary options depending on how ill someone is if they go to the ER, regular bed, ICU with a ventilator, or given medications. Why waste valuable resources at the ER if both the ER hospital doctor and the primary doctor believe hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine is the best choice for a patient? This executive order make zero sense.

Most other states have rescinded there earlier executive order like NY once they found out the drug manufacturers were going to push out more product and increasing production. So you now have 45+ governors (it might be as high as 48) who don't have a ban like NY, what makes NY so unique?

A belief? Medicine is a science, not a belief. If there is science, then it should be approved for national use, not left up to the states or left up to the media or left up to politicians. What's wrong about that? You want to keep politicians out of it? Fine. Have the FDA approve it for personal use and say it's a cure. Not Dr. Hannity.

There is some evidence in the medical world taking hydroxychloroquine for covid-19 as a preventative might stop one from getting the virus, people use the drug as a preventative for malaria. That is one of the things most of the clinical trials will look at.

 

[bobjim45]

I am not saying it is "partisan". I am saying it is stupid.

The drug should be available by doctor's prescription for a single use for each patient of a primary care physician. No plastic surgeons, no urologists, no pediatricians.

There should be no further restrictions, and, particularly, no requirement to go to a hospital.

It should not only be for persons with a proven diagnosis, but also for those with what might be preliminary symptoms. Otherwise, the governor is saying he knows more than the doctors in New York state.

Cuomo's attitude is simply "It's my state and I'll do what I wanna".

You said it better and with a whole bunch less words!

 

[davideduardo]

There is some evidence in the medical world taking hydroxychloroquine for covid-19 as a preventative might stop one from getting the virus, people use the drug as a preventative for malaria. That one of the things most of the clinical trials will look at.

Thank you for the complete analysis.

As possibly the only person posting here who has taken hydroxychloquine, I can attest to its effectiveness and safety. I'd certainly take it again were there a chance it might be preventative in this new virus.

 

[Kelly A]

Anyone disbursing false or misleading information should be taken off the air.

This is from the FCC:

And is the reason why crazy peddlers have moved to streaming and podcasts. No regulation of what they say there, plus a geographically broader audience.

 

[davideduardo]

While not related to Noory and his extraterrestrials... here is a COVID-19 story about a well known industry veteran who fell victim to the virus.

It's from Carter & Resnick´s "RAMP" newsletter...

"We are sending our most sincere best wishes to longtime industry executive John McConnell, EVP of Talent and Content at Workhouse Media, who, thankfully, is on the road to recovery after a deadly serious battle with COVID-19 that very nearly cost him his life. Just over a week ago, the situation was very different for McConnell (pictured here on Saturday recovering nicely at his Florida home), and his wife Marie, who were both experiencing the symptoms of COVID-19 and were awaiting test results. In the meantime, while Marie's condition was comparatively mild, McConnell's condition had deteriorated to the point that, according to an in-depth story posted on TCPalm.com, he was hospitalized, and he and Marie were updating their wills as doctors debated moving McConnell into ICU and placing him on a ventilator.

By Thursday night, March 26, Dr. Gene Posca at the Cleveland Clinic discussed the pros and cons of treating McConnell with hydroxychloroquine, also known as Plaquenil, which is traditionally used for treating lupus, rheumatoid arthritis and malaria, and is still not approved as an effective treatment for COVID-19. Through a mutual friend, Dr. Oz also got involved and worked closely with Posca and the team to brainstorm the best treatment. McConnell gave his permission, and the Plaquenil was administered. The next morning, however, McConnell's temperature had peaked at 103.5 degrees, and as he recounted, "(On the phone) Marie and I were saying goodbyes to one another, and my kids were, too. But the Plaquenil was working in my system. The luck of the timing is what made the difference." By Friday night, there was a marked improvement in McConnell's condition, and by Saturday, he began to feel better to the point where the medical team told him, "If you keep up this trouble, we're going to have to throw you out." On Monday -- the same day he finally received his positive COVID-19 test results -- McConnell was discharged.

More at http://ramp247.com/