Rolling Stone Upset About KROQ

[davideduardo]

I miss Sky Daniels.

In many ways he did a brilliant job. He aligned the format with no other station... it stood apart. When you have a defined niche on a weaker signal, those who like it will go out of their way to hear it. But when you go mainstream, people may say, "it's a little better than K-Rock, but it's so hard to hear I'll just listen to KROQ instead."

 

[TheBigA]

Re. KCSN, I've subtly noticed changes in their format. I miss Sky Daniels.

Sky likely knew big changes were happening with the university, and that they were going to hand the operation of the station over to people who would be more involved in programming. The university didn't want to pay the bill forever, and new operators might be able to make the station more self-sufficient. "Wide open playlists" never last forever. Even the father of free form radio Tom Donohue realized that when he was at KSAN. His wife discovered that at KMET.

 

[boombox4]

Perhaps this thread is California-centric, but there were other rock musician "communities" after Tom Petty. The 1990's grunge bands hung out together and most of them knew (and still know) each other. The late 80's hair metal contingent in LA were a 'community'. Were they all concentrated in one canyon? No. But communities nonetheless.

I think the drift of younger people's tastes away from rock towards hip hop and urban style pop has more to do with declines in rock radio than anything else. Rock has become nichified, which is nothing new, as there are several niches of hip-hop music, and there were niches and subgenres in rock when it was still popular.

It's just that when you have a top genre, which is popular, it's going to get the ratings, even if it has subgenres. Look at that Lil' Nas cowboy song. What genre does that fit into? Yet it was a massive hit, because he's already a star.

Tastes have changed. Those of us who are rock people deal with it. Either go to the internet, or seek out an HD2 if there is one. Maybe your city has a rock station that plays a few tracks you still like. Radio never satisfied people 100% -- I remember people complaining about rock radio in the 1980's when it arguably was at its apex. Can't please everybody even when ratings are good and it's popular.

 

[Groove1670]

Perhaps this thread is California-centric, but there were other rock musician "communities" after Tom Petty. The 1990's grunge bands hung out together and most of them knew (and still know) each other. The late 80's hair metal contingent in LA were a 'community'. Were they all concentrated in one canyon? No. But communities nonetheless.

I think the drift of younger people's tastes away from rock towards hip hop and urban style pop has more to do with declines in rock radio than anything else. Rock has become nichified, which is nothing new, as there are several niches of hip-hop music, and there were niches and subgenres in rock when it was still popular.

It's just that when you have a top genre, which is popular, it's going to get the ratings, even if it has subgenres. Look at that Lil' Nas cowboy song. What genre does that fit into? Yet it was a massive hit, because he's already a star.

Tastes have changed. Those of us who are rock people deal with it. Either go to the internet, or seek out an HD2 if there is one. Maybe your city has a rock station that plays a few tracks you still like. Radio never satisfied people 100% -- I remember people complaining about rock radio in the 1980's when it arguably was at its apex. Can't please everybody even when ratings are good and it's popular.

Tastes in music have changed. Hip hop and Rhythmic based pop are popular now. Young rock fans are using youtube and other sources to get new "hip" music for ALT/rock hits. Radio is no longer go to source for those fans. A song or group has to be a major breakout regional hit to get any mainstream radio airplay.

I've seen several stations pull the plug on the ALT/rock format in the last few months. It works in selected markets with the genre is popular.

 

[davideduardo]

Tastes in music have changed. Hip hop and Rhythmic based pop are popular now. Young rock fans are using youtube and other sources to get new "hip" music for ALT/rock hits. Radio is no longer go to source for those fans. A song or group has to be a major breakout regional hit to get any mainstream radio airplay.

I've seen several stations pull the plug on the ALT/rock format in the last few months. It works in selected markets with the genre is popular.

If you look at the data on song on demand streaming plays, we see Alt is low and fragmented there, too. People are not going to streams any more than other formats that appeal to the same demo... the genre is fragmenting and declining. Most individual artists don't appeal across the rock board any more either.

I think BigA's concept that the artists have created silos of preference rather than waves of appeal is very sound.

 

[TheBigA]

Perhaps this thread is California-centric, but there were other rock musician "communities" after Tom Petty.

Watch Echoes of the Canyon. The level of creative collaboration was way beyond simply "hanging out together." It was a community of sex, drugs, and rock & roll, and radio was right in the middle of it. That doesn't exist now. We're all probably healthier and safer as a result, but the lack of that cohesion hurts the music and it has hurt radio.

 

[davideduardo]

It was a community of sex, drugs, and rock & roll, and radio was right in the middle of it.

Oh, my goodness! I never would have thought.

I guess that explains the purchase of beverage straws by the 12 gross cartons.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

In many ways he did a brilliant job. He aligned the format with no other station... it stood apart. When you have a defined niche on a weaker signal, those who like it will go out of their way to hear it. But when you go mainstream, people may say, "it's a little better than K-Rock, but it's so hard to hear I'll just listen to KROQ instead."

Bingo! Over the last few years the charm has worn off for me for just the reason you note and I have listened less and less. I am usually in the Burbank/Glendale/Pasadena area, all of which seem to be just out of range for the Valley signal. I used to seek them out regardless, but that happens much less often now.

 

[acheron1982]

Mark mentioned The Point skews heavily active. He’s not wrong BUT it also plays deeper and newer alternative than most iheart Alt stations. They adjust their playlist by the time of day with an active lean during the day and a alternative/indie lean at night. Media base playlist is BS for KPNT as they have loads of specialty shows and weekends where they dig deep. Deep 90s Alt and grunge cuts, industrial metal and pissed off punk/Alt of the early 2Ks and even emo. Yes, they also play avenge sevenfold and Metallica. Guess what? They are also one of the highest rated Alt stations in the country. Active and Alt should be intertwined. Specialty shows highlighting different rock genres from local to metal to indie to 90s which the point does well. Finally, The Point is local. You listen for 30 minutes and you pick up this station has a St Louis family that blends between metal head kids in the trailer parks to the gen x professional to the young “woke” “bruh” hipsters. While my personal taste is WEQX all the way, I think KPNT is the best programmed Alt/active station in the country by far. Buzz in Houston follows though a bit more corporate sounding. Still, variety in modern rock.

 

[TheBigA]

I think KPNT is the best programmed Alt/active station in the country by far. Buzz in Houston follows though a bit more corporate sounding. Still, variety in modern rock.

All of that is great, but you can't just pick up a successful local format and move it someplace else. If it was that easy, we'd do it all the time. You need heritage to make that happen. People need to know what to expect. KROQ had that heritage, and they got lazy. When you burn off heritage, its hard to win it back. You can't just play a bunch of songs and expect lots of people will one day find your station and listen. It takes time. You have to start somewhere, and right now KROQ is starting over.

 

[Groove1670]

If you look at the data on song on demand streaming plays, we see Alt is low and fragmented there, too. People are not going to streams any more than other formats that appeal to the same demo... the genre is fragmenting and declining. Most individual artists don't appeal across the rock board any more either.

I think BigA's concept that the artists have created silos of preference rather than waves of appeal is very sound.

To sum it up it would last format I would consider for my stations.

 

[davideduardo]

To sum it up it would last format I would consider for my stations.

Yep. No matter where it is, it's a low-share format. A 3 share is a big deal in LA... it's horrible in Meridian.

 

[Y2kTheNewOldies]

Perhaps this thread is California-centric, but there were other rock musician "communities" after Tom Petty. The 1990's grunge bands hung out together and most of them knew (and still know) each other. The late 80's hair metal contingent in LA were a 'community'. Were they all concentrated in one canyon? No. But communities nonetheless.

I think the drift of younger people's tastes away from rock towards hip hop and urban style pop has more to do with declines in rock radio than anything else. Rock has become nichified, which is nothing new, as there are several niches of hip-hop music, and there were niches and subgenres in rock when it was still popular.

It's just that when you have a top genre, which is popular, it's going to get the ratings, even if it has subgenres. Look at that Lil' Nas cowboy song. What genre does that fit into? Yet it was a massive hit, because he's already a star.

Tastes have changed. Those of us who are rock people deal with it. Either go to the internet, or seek out an HD2 if there is one. Maybe your city has a rock station that plays a few tracks you still like. Radio never satisfied people 100% -- I remember people complaining about rock radio in the 1980's when it arguably was at its apex. Can't please everybody even when ratings are good and it's popular.

If Alternative is going to remain popular in the future and attract a wider audience wouldn't some of the top Alternative artists of the 2020's have to have songs that will gain popularity on Hot AC playlists? Or does the alternative artist need a billion views on YouTube or a billion plays on a streaming outlet for Alternative to remain viable.

 

[MarkW]

KROQ had that heritage, and they got lazy. When you burn off heritage, its hard to win it back.

Bingo! Very well stated.

The same statement also can be applied to early to mid 00's era 99X in Atlanta.

 

[Groove1670]

If Alternative is going to remain popular in the future and attract a wider audience wouldn't some of the top Alternative artists of the 2020's have to have songs that will gain popularity on Hot AC playlists? Or does the alternative artist need a billion views on YouTube or a billion plays on a streaming outlet for Alternative to remain viable.

HAC is slow to adopt Alt artists now. There have been fewer. We picked up more pop crossovers now. Twenty One Pilots has done well, and Billy Joe Armstrong (from Green Day) with a cover, but with very little fanfare. Fitz and the Tantrums has tried to gain traction but is fizzing out. Just no strong enough with all the other pop crossover contenders.

I have mixed feelings on streaming or youtube plays as a viable indicator. You can easily inflate numbers. I compare it to cute cat videos. Popular today...lost tomorrow.

Opinion: Know your market, know your audience. You mileage may vary even with a billion views.

 

[Groove1670]

Yep. No matter where it is, it's a low-share format. A 3 share is a big deal in LA... it's horrible in Meridian.

Agreed. If I was going down in flames. I would go with dance/freestyle. At least we could out with a last dance

 

[davideduardo]

If Alternative is going to remain popular in the future and attract a wider audience wouldn't some of the top Alternative artists of the 2020's have to have songs that will gain popularity on Hot AC playlists? Or does the alternative artist need a billion views on YouTube or a billion plays on a streaming outlet for Alternative to remain viable.

The problem goes beyond that...

AC, particularly in markets with significant ethnic populations, is leaning away from rock-sounding AC and favoring more rhythmic songs.

Every indicator shows that the biggest issue against Alt is the growth over the last two to three decades of more rhythmic genres. So AC stations will favor a more broadly appealing rhythmic song than one that is a crossover from a rock genre.

 

[davideduardo]

Mark mentioned The Point skews heavily active. He’s not wrong BUT it also plays deeper and newer alternative than most iheart Alt stations. They adjust their playlist by the time of day with an active lean during the day and a alternative/indie lean at night. Media base playlist is BS for KPNT as they have loads of specialty shows and weekends where they dig deep. Deep 90s Alt and grunge cuts, industrial metal and pissed off punk/Alt of the early 2Ks and even emo. Yes, they also play avenge sevenfold and Metallica. Guess what? They are also one of the highest rated Alt stations in the country. Active and Alt should be intertwined. Specialty shows highlighting different rock genres from local to metal to indie to 90s which the point does well. Finally, The Point is local. You listen for 30 minutes and you pick up this station has a St Louis family that blends between metal head kids in the trailer parks to the gen x professional to the young “woke” “bruh” hipsters. While my personal taste is WEQX all the way, I think KPNT is the best programmed Alt/active station in the country by far. Buzz in Houston follows though a bit more corporate sounding. Still, variety in modern rock.

Those who have paid MediaBase or BDS subscriptions know that we can look at stations (or create groups of stations) by daypart. We can exclude overnights so that fill songs don't count. We can separate nights, or morning drive or weekends.

If we want to avoid many specialty shows, we do weekdays only. Or do weekdays only without nights. Or even Monday to Thursday.

We can also do reports that don't include "plays < 2" or something like that. Those two services are not just providers of a ranked list... there are all kinds of other reports we can create by dates, dayparts, days of the week and much more.

 

[radiojomo]

Anyone else notice that 88.5 FM changed their HD Radio identifier from AAA-HD to ROCK-HD?

Hm...

 

[leethalweapon]

I live in Australia, and I have been listening to K-ROQ the past few days via stream. I have noticed that KROQ may well be no more. The imaging is less K-ROQ and more K-R-O-Q. How long has this been happening? I can see why they did it, as the Alternative format is more pop these days.