What is kroq gonna do?

[Theater of My Mind]

I am mystified at how KROQ thinks that a genre of rock that gets virtually no airplay anywhere in Latin America and sells even less will be popular among anyone in LA.

Hispanics in LA are hugely and predominantly from rural and small town areas of Mexico and represent an audience that has little exposure to rock, which in Mexico is mainly heard only in larger cities and is generally more mainstream in nature. Oh, and most rock played on the radio in Mexico is from the US and in English, not in Spanish.

In fact, the only successful Spanish language rock station in Latin America is way, way south in Argentina where, in fact, it spent its first 6 years at #1 in that larger-than-New York City market. But Buenos Aires is essentially the southernmost city in Europe, so that station and market can't be used as examples.

Travelling through Costa Rica last year I was surprised to discover one of the better-sounding alternative-rock stations I've heard in a while, oddly calling itself "Radio Hit." The morning hosts spoke Spanish but there were no Spanish language songs at all, and no rhythmic "hits" as the CHR-sounding name suggests, but all rock-based stuff.

I wasn't even aware that rock and alternative music had a strong enough following in Latin America to support stations like that. But you're right, Spanish language alt/rock songs were absent on a station that you'd think would be in the best position to play them if there were any interest.

I think it's a national station with sync'ed transmitters on 104.7. We did a lot of travelling around the country could hear it everywhere we went on that frequency. http://www.1047hit.com
Stream : http://www.1047hit.com/player.html

 

[davideduardo]

I wasn't even aware that rock and alternative music had a strong enough following in Latin America to support stations like that. But you're right, Spanish language alt/rock songs were absent on a station that you'd think would be in the best position to play them if there were any interest. l

At one point, in Lima, Peru, out of 23 FM stations 18 played 100% English language rock or pop or AC music. About 7 were pure rock or pop with a very rock leaning.

While rock is a niche audience in Latin America, in many places it does well economically for stations as the appeal is almost all in upper income listeners. In Latin America, buyers target income levels, not age groups. So if you do very well in upper levels, despite being perhaps 20th in overall listening, you can bill very high.

 

[promixcuous]

I guess KROQ is interested in attracted female millenial listeners; they should change their call letters. Alternative ROCK is dead. Alternative these days seems to be a blend of electro-pop music, faux punk, and coffeehouse music. BARF!!!

I will say DC101 (Washington, D.C.) has taken its playlist in a very similar direction over the past 120 days - and prior to COVID - saw substantial AQH share growth. DC101 benefits from a lack of FM music options that target white suburbanites. Washington completely lacks a core metro Hot AC, has no Variety Hits station, only a very straight laced Classic Rock station (i.e. less adventurous musically than KLOS), and a Classic Hits station whose stationality is a far cry from that of K-Earth.

KLOS has a wider lane than ever to itself; wouldn't surprise me if they reach a 4 share by summer. It's quite remarkable how the path has cleared for KLOS.

Just a personal opinion, but I think KROQ sounds great in both music and the station IDs/jingles. It's Saturday evening and there is no DJ (at least on the online stream); that feels like a void. Are they playing sped-up versions of songs?

 

[macattack]

The pop-forward "Alt" format was already here by the time Billie Eilish came along but her popularity hasn't hurt, that's for sure. Before her though, it was Lorde for instance.

Lorde is actually who "broke" Alternative for the 2010s in the first place. The purge of everything heavier than The Black Keys was already in effect after "Pumped Up Kicks" and "We Are Young" blew up but Lorde made the purge complete. Overall I get the impression that Alt PDs could not wait to ditch heavier music considering how quickly almost 20 years of post-Nirvana rock left the playlists, compared to it almost taking 7 or 8 years for 80's songs to be begrudgingly removed after Nirvana upended Alternative in 1991.

(Yes I know a handful big 90's hits and 00's hipster songs stuck around due to necessity).

There are only a handful of "rock alternative" stations left. WBUZ has been in programming chaos for the last couple of months, WCYY is notoriously slow with currents, and both WXDX and KTBZ are being strangled by incompetent iHeart ownership. KPNT remains the class of its kind, and could very well be the last as the 2020s progress unless something changes.

Mike Kaplan and the rest of Entercom are betting that Alternative will slide deeper into being a pop format, hence KROQ and WNYL both playing Alt Nation-esque playlists. 2021, if existing patterns hold up, will introduce something new that redefines "Alternative" for the decade. We'll see if it reinforces pop, returns the format to rock, or something else unexpected blows up (like "emo rap" which some artists are getting experimental plays atm).

 

[TheBigA]

We'll see if it reinforces pop, returns the format to rock, or something else unexpected blows up (like "emo rap" which some artists are getting experimental plays atm).

I agree that something had to change. Interesting that it took two women to change a format that has been largely male driven. As far as radio, it's interesting that KROQ makes this change, and KYSR follows them immediately.

 

[MarkW]

Is it the Billie Eilish effect?

That's a great way to describe it, BigA. Nicely done.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

Lorde is actually who "broke" Alternative for the 2010s in the first place. The purge of everything heavier than The Black Keys was already in effect after "Pumped Up Kicks" and "We Are Young" blew up but Lorde made the purge complete. Overall I get the impression that Alt PDs could not wait to ditch heavier music considering how quickly almost 20 years of post-Nirvana rock left the playlists, compared to it almost taking 7 or 8 years for 80's songs to be begrudgingly removed after Nirvana upended Alternative in 1991.

(Yes I know a handful big 90's hits and 00's hipster songs stuck around due to necessity).

There are only a handful of "rock alternative" stations left. WBUZ has been in programming chaos for the last couple of months, WCYY is notoriously slow with currents, and both WXDX and KTBZ are being strangled by incompetent iHeart ownership. KPNT remains the class of its kind, and could very well be the last as the 2020s progress unless something changes.

Mike Kaplan and the rest of Entercom are betting that Alternative will slide deeper into being a pop format, hence KROQ and WNYL both playing Alt Nation-esque playlists. 2021, if existing patterns hold up, will introduce something new that redefines "Alternative" for the decade. We'll see if it reinforces pop, returns the format to rock, or something else unexpected blows up (like "emo rap" which some artists are getting experimental plays atm).

Music trends always go in cycles and right now "rock alternative," "active rock,"...basically anything "rock" that isn't 30-50 years old are at the bottom. Eventually there will be a backlash against pop-heavy formats that don't really appeal to younger male audiences, though. The next version of rock may not sound like yesterday's Zeppelin and Guns n Roses, or even like Nirvana and Pearl Jam. But there's a reason those bands were huge, they had the energy and aggression that gave them an inherent appeal to young men that surely still exists today. There's nothing coming from the Foster the People and Billie Eilish camp that duplicates that right now, and I'm sure there's going to end up being a pent-up appetite for it.

We've seen the same thing from pop formats in the past. The early 90s brought soft ratings for hit music stations, and I can remember a story from the early 80s when Detroit (for one) didn't have a single CHR station as pop music was in the doldrums. You'd never believe it today, the pendulum always swings back the other way and right now it's firmly on pop music's side.

 

[DOB]

Music trends always go in cycles and right now "rock alternative," "active rock,"...basically anything "rock" that isn't 30-50 years old are at the bottom. Eventually there will be a backlash against pop-heavy formats that don't really appeal to younger male audiences, though. The next version of rock may not sound like yesterday's Zeppelin and Guns n Roses, or even like Nirvana and Pearl Jam. But there's a reason those bands were huge, they had the energy and aggression that gave them an inherent appeal to young men that surely still exists today. There's nothing coming from the Foster the People and Billie Eilish camp that duplicates that right now, and I'm sure there's going to end up being a pent-up appetite for it.

We've seen the same thing from pop formats in the past. The early 90s brought soft ratings for hit music stations, and I can remember a story from the early 80s when Detroit (for one) didn't have a single CHR station as pop music was in the doldrums. You'd never believe it today, the pendulum always swings back the other way and right now it's firmly on pop music's side.

I don't see rock music coming back, sorry. On the other hand though many under 35 or so do really enjoy select titles from the 60s, 70s, and 80s, an appeal for old music by those who weren't alive when it initially came out unlike anything any of us alive today have ever seen. Part of it is that today's music is pretty stale for the most part and lacking variety of sound, and it's just fact that the rock, rnb, and many pop titles from 1965-85 is the very best music ever made without question.

 

[adradio]

I don't see rock music coming back, sorry. On the other hand though many under 35 or so do really enjoy select titles from the 60s, 70s, and 80s, an appeal for old music by those who weren't alive when it initially came out unlike anything any of us alive today have ever seen. Part of it is that today's music is pretty stale for the most part and lacking variety of sound, and it's just fact that the rock, rnb, and many pop titles from 1965-85 is the very best music ever made without question.

Steve Jobs called the music from the mid '60s to the mid '70s as the musical equivalent of the French Impression era. Compared to what's been going on with music for the past couple of decades, time and history may prove Jobs to be correct.

 

[TheBigA]

I don't see rock music coming back, sorry. On the other hand though many under 35 or so do really enjoy select titles from the 60s, 70s, and 80s,

Exactly, I agree, but I see this as a music problem, not a radio problem. All we want to do is attract an audience that we can sell to advertisers.

If we can do that with cows mooing, that's fine with me.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Exactly, I agree, but I see this as a music problem, not a radio problem. All we want to do is attract an audience that we can sell to advertisers.

If we can do that with cows mooing, that's fine with me.

It is specifically this type of disregard for the product that radio programmers put on their own airwaves that is responsible for the degradation of an entire genre of music. I know profits come first, but at what point do you take pride and professionalism in the product you put out into the market?

 

[TheBigA]

I know profits come first, but at what point do you take pride and professionalism in the product you put out into the market?

It depends on what your job is. If your job has nothing to do with playing music, then it's far less important.

Your comment makes an assumption that this is how all radio programmers think. You know what they say about assume?

Do you have a problem with mooing cows? They can be a lot more musical than some recording artists.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Do you have a problem with mooing cows? They can be a lot more musical than some recording artists.

That is the problem. Mooing cows is superior to a lot of what is being played these days. That is why I always wonder when someone is going to say "enough is enough, I am not playing crap on my airwaves any more." But I am not naive, I know the answer is never.

 

[TheBigA]

But I am not naive, I know the answer is never.

That's what happens when we allow reality TV shows to give people record deals.

 

[b-turner]

There is a sequence of events that happens in radio station on every format. You design your format to attract the greatest number you can of your desired/target market. The salespeople sell advertisers on the number reached. When the advertiser buys, the only reason they keep advertising is when the audience is substantial enough to produce ample results. If stations are doing this, the music and quality we feel it is does not matter because you have the audience that likes what they're hearing and advertisers are satisfied with the results. In the end, the station makes money. If the kitchen sink isn't broken, it doesn't get fixed. Having been in programming, I had to learn long ago it is not about me, my pride or my thoughts, but rather what my audience wanted. If that's mooing cows, so be it. A friend of mine got in to interior design. She relates to programming on radio. She never had the chance to create an interior design of her choice. She always was bound by what the client wanted even when she thought it was an awful choice.

 

[TheBigA]

If that's mooing cows, so be it.

I personally prefer bleating sheep. But that's just me, and I accept that.

 

[MarkW]

Mooing cows would be a great format change stunt!

I'm a rock fan, yet I loved "Pumped Up Kicks."

"We Are Young" was a song I didn't mind at first, but now I absolutely loathe all radio singles released by Fun. Panic! at the Disco is a band I hate with a passion.

The only alt band I truly like at the moment is Cage the Elephant.

 

[macattack]

Hey if Bloodhound Gang can include donkey brays in the radio edit of "Fire Water Burn" maybe somebody will score a top 10 hit with cows mooing. In this wackadoo year I can see it happening.

 

[TheBigA]

Hey if Bloodhound Gang can include donkey brays in the radio edit of "Fire Water Burn" maybe somebody will score a top 10 hit with cows mooing. In this wackadoo year I can see it happening.

donkey brays? On cue, hit it:

https://youtu.be/FsyIcJIy-yM

I promise you've never heard this song

 

[ChannelFlipper]

donkey brays? On cue, hit it:

https://youtu.be/FsyIcJIy-yM

I promise you've never heard this song

Loved the song. This song is actually fun and entertaining which is why you could say with certainty that we (in this case, I) had never heard it before. You knew it hasn't been played on local radio (this is an assumption on my part, I don't listen to a lot of Country radio, so maybe?).

In any case, it reminds me of "I wanna Be A Cowboy" by Boys Don't Cry, a similar fun song from the 80s.