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WJJL to become WEBR

CAVEMANager said:
Niagara Falls is the number one tourist attraction on the North American continent with something like ten million visitors yearly. Admittedly the people who run Niagara Falls, N.Y. have allowed the place to deteriorate so most of the retail trade ends up in Canada. I don't think that there are any stations presently licensed to Niagara Falls, Ontario so it would appear that any radio station programmed to the tourist trade would have plenty of potential ad dollars from both sides of the border. Stations all over the nation would give just about anything to have one of the seven wonders of the world in their backyard. There must be some money to be made in Niagara Falls.
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Remember, Canada does not allow advertising expense from a time buy on a US station to be tax deductible. So a US station is very limited in what it can sell in Canada.

On the other hand, US advertisers who buy on a Canadian station are not limited this way. Buddy is aware of that...

And most businesses know that tourists don't listen to the radio much, and they certainly don't know about listening to a limited coverage AM station... or in many cases, would not want to listen to AM in any case.

Local radio does not benefit directly from tourist attractions. However, they do get indirect revenue from the expanded tourist economy. The problem with Niagara falls is that it is a one-day visit, not an extended stay with lots of attractions such as Orlando, NYC, Disneyland / LA. It's sort of like the Mt. Rushmore experience: a bucket list "now I've seen it" destination.
 
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Rusty Bridges said:
Using this logic, perhaps if the previous owner had done Oldies rather than news-talk, he'd still be the owner today.
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WJJL tried some form of oldies without much success for a long time. IIRC they were doing oldies when I left the market in 2002. And to play devil's advocate, oldies was also tried on WWKB with that huge AM signal (but no FM translators, however the translator hasn't helped WWWS gain ratings) and Neaverth in morning drive a few years ago. For a number of reasons it failed. Yet WECK has succeeded nicely with oldies. Maybe the big difference could be Buddy's leadership. Or maybe it was timing. Or a combination of both.
 
DavidEduardo said:
I read that paean to the music.

(I was also perturbed by his dismissal of the owner's paean to traditional values.)

I was born on the fifth day of the Baby Boomer generation. And I did not recognize many of the names cited in the music eulogy.

And those that I did recognize were representative of music I neither like nor enjoy and which I identify as that of my parents, not my generation.

Growing up just to the SW of Buffalo, I did not know anyone in my age group who liked that music.

While Buddy is appealing to 45-65 listeners primarily, this station is obviously targeting folks well over 70.

Anyone know how old the reporter is?
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The reporter is The News' respected and retired jazz, theater, arts and music reviewer who is approximately 76.

Question: How does a 60s-70s based format appeal to a significant number to 45 - 50 year old listeners?
 
TVEngineerArk said:
WJJL tried some form of oldies without much success for a long time. IIRC they were doing oldies when I left the market in 2002. And to play devil's advocate, oldies was also tried on WWKB with that huge AM signal (but no FM translators, however the translator hasn't helped WWWS gain ratings) and Neaverth in morning drive a few years ago. For a number of reasons it failed. Yet WECK has succeeded nicely with oldies. Maybe the big difference could be Buddy's leadership. Or maybe it was timing. Or a combination of both.
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Entercom jettisoned the Oldies on KB when it started to impact the WBEN numbers. Oldies formats can get decent ratings. That's not the issue. It's the demos and sales that are the problem. It's been pointed on numerous threads that it's too hard to get a sale. The Corporate groups aren't interested in trying to reach those demos.

WEBR would not make money as News Talk (Local or otherwise). It may not make money with its current format. Some people are calling it a "Hobby" station. It's just a nuisance for Buddy to have another operator that might steal a few listeners from WECK...
 
With all the talk of formats and radio station ownership, we know radio stations are businesses. If radio was any other business (a restaurant, a grocery store or a hardware store), would you choose the option that is the most difficult want to make money? I think if you owned that restaurant, grocery store or hardware store, you'd look for the easiest path to the money. A radio station owner generally thinks the same way. Buddy is a great marketing guy that has assembled the right people to gain listeners and advertising dollars the hard way. Part of why he can do this simply is some substantial dollars are spent beyond the agency dollars that dictate certain demographics, but let's not minimize the relationships Buddy has cultivated over the years. For WEBR, it could very well be a hobby station. Then again, we don't know the plan or the inside scoop. Certainly, we have a couple of stations that are the rare exceptions here.
 
tbolt909 said:
Entercom jettisoned the Oldies on KB when it started to impact the WBEN numbers. Oldies formats can get decent ratings.
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How would a talk station have audience taken by a music station? All the research that has been done shows that the average listener uses five to six stations a week (including shared listening locations) and that they pick by mood.

A person who is in the mood for politically slanted talk listens to a talk station. When they want music, they pick the station that matches their mood for music.

Major groups "jettison" oldies because the demos are not as easy to sell. Those that could moved from oldies to classic hits.

WEBR is not going to affect Buddy; Buddy's format is almost a generation apart.
 
DavidEduardo said:
How would a talk station have audience taken by a music station? All the research that has been done shows that the average listener uses five to six stations a week (including shared listening locations) and that they pick by mood.

A person who is in the mood for politically slanted talk listens to a talk station. When they want music, they pick the station that matches their mood for music.

Major groups "jettison" oldies because the demos are not as easy to sell. Those that could moved from oldies to classic hits.

WEBR is not going to affect Buddy; Buddy's format is almost a generation apart.
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It's certainly possible that some 70 year old WECK listener may sample WEBR (if they ever find out about it). Time will tell if the ratings are impacted or not.

When Entercom was running Oldies on KB, they had some personalities from "Yesteryear". WBEN didn't need competition within the building, so it went away. KB now affects no one in any way. It's just there...
 
KB as an Oldies station was remarkably unfocused. Neaverth, Burns, Beach and Armstrong were/are legacies, but the jingles, imaging and music were AOR - All Over The Road. For example, Jack Armstrong was sometimes heard playing the Skyliners, Buddy Holly or Drifters... not the way listeners remembered him on KB. Had KB focused on the hits of 1964 thru 1979, with a only a sparing seasoning of mega-hits 57-63, as played in the present rather than recalling the past, it might have done better. But for how long, and how much better? Clear Channel's AM Oldies stations, which essentially started the national trend, folded in about two years. KB was an "Oh wow" moment that turned into "Yeah, that was fun, let's see what's going on down the dial."
 
b-turner said:
With all the talk of formats and radio station ownership, we know radio stations are businesses. If radio was any other business (a restaurant, a grocery store or a hardware store), would you choose the option that is the most difficult want to make money? I think if you owned that restaurant, grocery store or hardware store, you'd look for the easiest path to the money. A radio station owner generally thinks the same way. Buddy is a great marketing guy that has assembled the right people to gain listeners and advertising dollars the hard way. Part of why he can do this simply is some substantial dollars are spent beyond the agency dollars that dictate certain demographics, but let's not minimize the relationships Buddy has cultivated over the years. For WEBR, it could very well be a hobby station. Then again, we don't know the plan or the inside scoop. Certainly, we have a couple of stations that are the rare exceptions here.
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I know some things. I am pushing up my WEBR destruction date from 6 months to literally 4 weeks. Mark my words. Crap is brewing. WEBR would not be competition to an EBS signal.
 
tbolt909 said:
You didn't buy the station, remember? I doubt that your new competitor for older demos is interested in your suggestions.

News/Talk isn't exactly a growing format. The station that you now own once tried it without much success...
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If I did news talk, which I would focus on the talk, not news, it would be a huge success. Weck ,before I bought it ,did not do it right at all.
 
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tbolt909 said:
Perhaps, but it rings hollow. WECK tried the News/Talk format a few years ago. It apparently did not make money as it no longer exists. He could experiment his theory on his own station. Maybe the new competitor is a small thorn in the way of The Empire...
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The small competitor is a tea pot station that I give 4 weeks, tops.. Almost off at sundown. Weck’s biggest competition is wben. Wben biggest competition is weck. In the latest ratings , each stations listeners are the two stations second choice.
 
tbolt909 said:
Entercom jettisoned the Oldies on KB when it started to impact the WBEN numbers. Oldies formats can get decent ratings. That's not the issue. It's the demos and sales that are the problem. It's been pointed on numerous threads that it's too hard to get a sale. The Corporate groups aren't interested in trying to reach those demos.

WEBR would not make money as News Talk (Local or otherwise). It may not make money with its current format. Some people are calling it a "Hobby" station. It's just a nuisance for Buddy to have another operator that might steal a few listeners from WECK...
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Weck is gaining oldies listeners in Niagara county all the time because JJL dumped oldies. I get emails all the time that listeners of oldies are now listening to weck. And, KB was not jettison because of BEN. I worked at ETM then. The move was made because oldies were doing horribly in all ways. Plus, entercom wanted to pair KB WITH GR for sports sales. Bolt, you are seriously not to smart in your assesements. You simply have no knowledge of the facts.
 
tbolt909 said:
It's certainly possible that some 70 year old WECK listener may sample WEBR (if they ever find out about it). Time will tell if the ratings are impacted or not.
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I'm in that age group, and what WEBR plays is about 70% unfamiliar and about 100% unlikable. I had pretty similar taste to all my friends in Junior High and High School, and, although I also acquired a taste for jazz and r&b from my part time radio job, I never listened to old-line MOR. And nobody in my peer group did, either.

One has to be pre-Baby Boomer to like that music as a steady diet. That means they were mostly pre-WW II babies and pretty old now.

When Entercom was running Oldies on KB, they had some personalities from "Yesteryear". WBEN didn't need competition within the building, so it went away. KB now affects no one in any way. It's just there...
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As I said, talk listeners don't pick arbitrarily between music and talk. It depends on the mood. Nobody, except a few religious format listeners, exclusively cumes only one station. The average person has a variety of stations they like, and they pick the one appropriate for the way they feel at the moment. In fact, Iheart has made quite a success in several markets with a "wall of women" as they find that they can capture female listeners in different moods with several formats... CHR, Hot AC, AC, etc., without them ever leaving a company station.
 
Buddy Shula said:
The small competitor is a tea pot station that I give 4 weeks, tops.. Almost off at sundown. Weck’s biggest competition is wben. Wben biggest competition is weck. In the latest ratings , each stations listeners are the two stations second choice.
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Your pal David E. disagrees with you. He says Oldies and News Talk are not competitors for listeners. If WEBR is no threat at all, why do you need their "destruction"?

In spite of the recent uptick for WECK's ratings, you still haven't delivered on your 5 share guarantee. You only complain when the ratings drop blaming the methodology.
Not much Radio listening happens after sundown anyway. It's not 1975 anymore...
 
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