Ktnn off the air

[CAVEMANager]

I believe that there is a grand total of one Arizona A.M. station that has 50,000 watts at night. It is KTNN-660 in Window Rock which is on the Navajo Reservation. KTNN is owned by the Navajo Tribe and it programs a strange mixture of old country songs and chants in the Navajo language. At night the skywave covers a large chunk of western America. KTNN has been off the air for the past week though I'm told that their FM remains in service. I've never before heard of an AM station with 50,000 watts at night being off the air this long. One unconfirmed report is that their transmitter is beyond repair and they are waiting for a new one to be delivered. Anyone know anything?

 

[b-turner]

That makes sense. I can't see transmitter manufacturers with aisles and aisles of 50 kw. AM transmitters in inventory ready to roll out today. Any order is likely a custom build, test and crate for trucking it to the station. It would seem they'd have a standby transmitter. Even a poor little 5kw I worked for had a 1kw RCA tube transmitter ready to roll just in case.

 

[kwthom]

<...>I've never before heard of an AM station with 50,000 watts at night being off the air this long. One unconfirmed report is that their transmitter is beyond repair and they are waiting for a new one to be delivered. Anyone know anything?

I mean, one cold possibly think that the CE community is fairly small in northern AZ/NM, and that someone might be able to help with some small solid-state 5kw (or even 1kw) box to serve as a fill-in.

Yet, the Navajo community just might not have the financial resources to quickly round up something to use for the interim.

 

[davideduardo]

I mean, one cold possibly think that the CE community is fairly small in northern AZ/NM, and that someone might be able to help with some small solid-state 5kw (or even 1kw) box to serve as a fill-in.

Yet, the Navajo community just might not have the financial resources to quickly round up something to use for the interim.

The Navajo Nation is just slightly larger than the size of West Virginia. It can't be covered by 5 kw on any frequency, given the conductivity at the Four Corners area.

In fact, there are ten states that are smaller than the Navajo Nation.

 

[TheBigA]

Yet, the Navajo community just might not have the financial resources to quickly round up something to use for the interim.

From what I can see, COVID has hit the nation very hard. They've reinstated "stay at home" rules. So if there's a problem, they can't fix it now.

https://www.ndoh.navajo-nsn.gov/COVID-19

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

From what I can see, COVID has hit the nation very hard. They've reinstated "stay at home" rules. So if there's a problem, they can't fix it now.

https://www.ndoh.navajo-nsn.gov/COVID-19

in many cases, even with tight stay at home rules, essential workers are allowed out, given exceptions. .and restoring a vital communications service would be considered essential

 

[TheBigA]

in many cases, even with tight stay at home rules, essential workers are allowed out, given exceptions. .and restoring a vital communications service would be considered essential

Maybe...I didn't see that listened among the exemptions in the link. There's also this message at the website:

"KTNN Studios in St. Michaels, AZ will have limited access to the public until further notice. Please utilize alternative forms of communication - fax and email, to get your information to our station."

 

[davideduardo]

Maybe...I didn't see that listened among the exemptions in the link.

In all the states I am familiar with, and that includes AZ, technical staff for radio is allowed to work while preserving the necessary precautions. Most suppliers are shipping, utilities are providing repairs and installation modifications. Transport companies are working, although sometimes not as fast as usual for ground delivery. Even the FCC responds quickly for emergency CPs, temporary authorizations and the like.

 

[TheBigA]

Transport companies are working, although sometimes not as fast as usual for ground delivery.

All of that is fine, assuming the needed parts are available and in stock.

 

[davideduardo]

All of that is fine, assuming the needed parts are available and in stock.

And that the Nation have the funds for a replacement transmitter. This is not a good moment for a brand new 50 kw AM rig.

If I were them, I might try to find a used 50 of the same model as the current one and make a working unit out of the two. And even that is problematic; hollow state tubes are not getting cheaper or easier to come by.

That reservation's biggest issue is not being located in a place where they can make good money from gaming. It's isolated, not particularly attractive for tourists and as devoid of marketable resources as you can find in the West. It's as if the Federal Government long ago said, "we can't send them to Hell, but we can park them in the lobby".

 

[kwthom]

The Navajo Nation is just slightly larger than the size of West Virginia. It can't be covered by 5 kw on any frequency, given the conductivity at the Four Corners area.

In fact, there are ten states that are smaller than the Navajo Nation.

As a resident for 45+ years in ¡Baja Arizona!, I'm familiar with indigenous people in our state, and how the Feds along with our state government have treated them in general.

My quoted comment inferred that something radiating from them sticks might be better than nothing radiating from them, which is the present case.

I realize that CAVEMANager's original comment was meant to instigate the discussion, and to learn more about what happened.

My response was a gentle kick to those that still have contacts in the industry to perhaps 'call a friend' and lend that community a bit of assistance to the Nation, if desired.

It was obvious to the Nation that gaming was more attractive in NM, where three casinos are located. The only AZ location is much closer to the tribal border in the southwestern portion of the Nation, near Flagstaff. Sixteen of the 21 recognized tribes have already built casino facilities (26) in the state of AZ.

The Navajo Nation didn't have a business case 30 years ago when gaming was permitted by the state of AZ, I suppose.

Anyway, nothing to do with the current problem and how this community could step in to help.

 

[davideduardo]

My response was a gentle kick to those that still have contacts in the industry to perhaps 'call a friend' and lend that community a bit of assistance to the Nation, if desired.

You bring up a point: the Nation should consider doing some crowd funding for the transmitter repairs or replacement. This is a good moment, when nearly everyone is conscious of the needs to improve the way we, as a nation, learn better ways to deal with different ethnic and minority groups.

I wonder if anyone has a used transmitter to donate... more on that late.

A used transmitter needs to be re-tuned and., probably, partly rebuilt. If it is old enough to donate, it is likely hollow-state and would needs replacement of the caps and other components that age. Also of concern is whether the building will hold a different transmitter and whether the power lines are in the right configuration. Old 50's are not small.

So they need a good consulting engineer, and some money. And a campaign to get the industry to help.

If I could do anything, I'd volunteer. I'll bet there are more radio people who could help.

The good news is that old 50 kw rigs used to go to Latin America at good prices. But Mexico has eliminated 80% of AMs, and Central and South America are seeing many AM stations closing to never return. Some markets have less than a third of the former number of stations... and the remaining ones are not spending right now. All that means that any used 50 kw rigs in the US likely are not finding buyers and will be cheap.

Maybe the Tribal authorities could contact iHeart, Cumulus and the others to see if they'd like to get rid of an old transmitter and get some very positive PR value. It would seem that the broadcaster's association in AZ might spearhead this as a service to a very valuable and necessary station.

And... what is ¡Baja Arizona!? One of my daughters was born in Phoenix over 45 years ago, and I never have heard the term.

 

[kwthom]

<...>Maybe the Tribal authorities could contact iHeart, Cumulus and the others to see if they'd like to get rid of an old transmitter and get some very positive PR value. It would seem that the broadcaster's association in AZ might spearhead this as a service to a very valuable and necessary station.<...>

Again, I have zero contacts in the industry, but there's a LOT of others, including you, that do. A little of that old-fashioned 'networking' might be useful to really kick this ball toward a goal.

And... what is ¡Baja Arizona!? One of my daughters was born in Phoenix over 45 years ago, and I never have heard the term.

A bit of tongue-in-cheek humor - especially useful for anyone that's lived north of the Gila River:

http://www.bandersnatch.com/bajaz.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Arizona#Secession

Back to the topic at hand. That was one of the reasons why I made this earlier comment in the thread:

"I mean, one cold possibly think that the CE community is fairly small in northern AZ/NM, and that someone might be able to help with some small solid-state 5kw (or even 1kw) box to serve as a fill-in."

A few million people within 500 miles of that station, and nobody to assist?

Maybe this thread needs to be moved to a larger audience here on this forum?

 

[davideduardo]

"I mean, one cold possibly think that the CE community is fairly small in northern AZ/NM, and that someone might be able to help with some small solid-state 5kw (or even 1kw) box to serve as a fill-in."

A few million people within 500 miles of that station, and nobody to assist?

Older brroadcast transmitters for AM are not frequency agile like ham radio or shortwave rigs are. They are delivered for specific frequencies and tuned for that one alone. Newer rigs are easier to modify, but it's not anywhere near instantaneous "plug and play" unless it is one of the very newest and expensive " quick change" models. And if we are talking about an older transmitter... the older it is the harder it is to change frequency.

And nobody is going to have a new $30,000 to $40,000 (Crown at low end, Nautel at high end) or so 5 kw solid state transmitter to spare. Many stations that have a solid state unit have it as the main rig, and may have an older tube transmitter as an auxiliary. Even if both are solid state, they won't have another one just sitting around. Usually when a new transmitter is installed, the main that it replaces is converted to AUX and the old AUX is sold or, if really old, junked.

A good used 5 kw that is not something dreadful like an Energy-Onyx will be in the $10 to $15 k range, and at that price over 15 years old and less efficient than current models. But they don't need a 5 kw... they need a 50 kw.

And, while a 5 kw transmitter is much smaller than it used to be, it's still almost the size of, let's say, a kitchen closet or big refrigerator. Not something you put in the trunk of a car and zoom off in. And 1 kw is just not going to cover enough of the tribal lands no more than 1 kw would cover all of West Virginia or Maine or South Carolina.

Here is a Nautel page for the simplest 3 to 6 kw rig: https://www.nautel.com/products/am-transmitters/xr-series/

Here is a 50 kw rig https://www.nautel.com/content/user_files/2020/01/NX50-spec-sheet.pdf Note that it weighs over a ton with the power transformer installed. It lists at $178,000 and is, I believe, FOB Nova Scotia, Canada.

 

[kwthom]

Again, I'm not in the industry. I worked in test engineering in the aerospace world. I'm familiar with EIA-310 racks full of equipment, and the process to move them, set them up, and teach others how to operate and maintain the equipment within.

http://www.ktnnonline.com/contact.html

Email? Voice? I'm not certain the best way to approach it, which is why I keep insisting that it be somebody in the industry that might be able to take action, as warranted, to make that initial contact.

 

[davideduardo]

I've written to the tribal government asking about the silence of KTNN and inquiring if they are in need of outside assistance.

If they are funded and are just waiting for parts or a new transmitter, then we know they are going to get the big AM back on the air. But if they are in considerable need and don't have funds, then it's going to depend on some of us to try to round up some help for them.

Once I hear from the Tribe, and if they could use assistance, I'll start by contacting the four state broadcaster associations that parts of the Navajo Nation lie within to see if they can notify members of what is needed. I'm sure there are other groups that might round up assistance, and maybe an engineer or two that could help, too.

UPDATE: A friend, Barry Mishkind, has talked with the station and the Gates Flexiva has been repaired by the manufacturer and is back on the air. I am checking why they do not have an auxiliary rig as perhaps that is where some aid could come in.

 

[kwthom]

Thanks for the update.

 

[CAVEMANager]

After being off for a week they are back on. We may never find out what knocked them off or what they did to get back on. How old was the transmitter that broke down? Gates went out of business ages ago when the company was acquired by Harris. I think that some new company may be using the Gates name. It's possible that any contribution to the tribe might be tax deductible as the tribe is a non-profit organization.

 

[awsherrill]

The Flexiva 3DX (assuming that's the transmitter in question) is a relatively recent product and is supported by Gates-Air...successor to Harris, which itself succeeded the original Gates.

 

[davideduardo]

After being off for a week they are back on. We may never find out what knocked them off or what they did to get back on. How old was the transmitter that broke down? Gates went out of business ages ago when the company was acquired by Harris. I think that some new company may be using the Gates name. It's possible that any contribution to the tribe might be tax deductible as the tribe is a non-profit organization.

I heard from the station. Gates sent a technician and they got the station back on the air on Tuesday. I corresponded with one of the DJ's and operations people, and all is well and they are back to serving the Navajo nation.

Harris renamed the transmitter line as Gates. The transmitter is a current model.