"Old Goats are going away..."

[kenglish]

I can't remember the last time an electronics class asked for a tour...

Commentary: “The Old Goats Are Going Away” - Radio World

The author writes: "We, the limited number of old-timers who learned from the old old timers and through the wisdom of age and smelly fingers from getting too close to the ATU coils, have to keep alert for anyone who might express the slightest interest in our business."

www.radioworld.com

 

[TheBigA]

It's a good commentary. I had this same discussion with the administrators of a well-known college. They were telling me they don't have classes in radio any more. They used to teach radio writing, performance, and business. No more. What they teach is the broader range of things that includes podcasting, web design, social media, and audio for video. But it's all the same thing, just using different platforms.

I wonder how many high schools teach electronics. They seem to be having trouble teaching the basics.

 

[kenglish]

The tours we used to give were technical schools and colleges. The students seemed interested, but the engineer started having qualms about encouraging them, especially when asked about things like typical salaries, hours and work environment.
I sometimes wonder if there should be a reality show about broadcast engineers. Include things like "all nighters" at the transmitters, getting stuck on a mountain with the truck off the road, helicopter not starting as a blizzard comes in. Plenty of tabloid stuff, as guys have to leave their own anniversary party, because one of their stations just went off the air....some wives don't understand that.
Then, there's the usual ham radio and scouts. Many also are SAR members or volunteer firemen.
Many people only remember Bucky Dornster (WKRP), or the tape guy from "Tootsie".

 

[TheBigA]

Many people only remember Bucky Dornster (WKRP), or the tape guy from "Tootsie".

There are still lots of people like that in IT. At most companies, they've combined the transmitter people with the computer people.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

20-ish years ago, I used to think the "old goats going away" would allow me to make my living as a broadcast engineer.

So when I finished college, I got a job as an assistant broadcast engineer, working part-time and on-call. The chief was past 65, so I figured he'd retire any day.

He didn't retire. I quickly found a full-time desk job with none of the weird hours that are fundamental in broadcast engineering, and it paid better to boot. I haven't looked back, and probably will never work as a full-time broadcast engineer.

I do still do assist a local contract engineer with studio and IT work, but I haven't touched a transmitter in many years now.

 

[TheBigA]

I quickly found a full-time desk job with none of the weird hours that are fundamental in broadcast engineering, and it paid better to boot.

I bet this same conversation is going on in construction work. There are a lot of jobs that young people don't want to do. I had some plumbing work done at my house and they brought in this old guy to work on one of the toilets. Not a lot of glamor there. But it was interesting that of all the plumbers there that day, it was the old guy who got the job of working on the toilet. If I had seniority, it wouldn't be my first choice.

 

[davideduardo]

I bet this same conversation is going on in construction work. There are a lot of jobs that young people don't want to do. I had some plumbing work done at my house and they brought in this old guy to work on one of the toilets. Not a lot of glamor there. But it was interesting that of all the plumbers there that day, it was the old guy who got the job of working on the toilet. If I had seniority, it wouldn't be my first choice.

I had the same case with air conditioning. In the summer here the attic can be around 150°, and the fans are in the attic. The old guy in the crew of two went to the attic; I asked about that. I was told he was "new" to the company and had been laid off in a different line of work before the age when he could get Social Security. So they had him do the hard jobs, and then the senior (who was "junior" in age) inspected and critiqued.

I'd rather do toilets than be in the attic in July in the Desert (I actually did replace a toilet a year or so ago, and compared to the A/C system it's a piece of cake!)

 

[kwthom]

<...>I wonder how many high schools teach electronics. They seem to be having trouble teaching the basics.

Locally, close to zero. The money is in Advanced Placement (AP) classes, not in what we called 'vocational' classes any longer.

Well, not exactly. There's a Career & Technical Education (CTE) school district regionally, which provides training in a multitude of fields of study. A definition of those fields at the blog below:

What Is Career & Technical Education (CTE)?

I suspect this is more common among areas with multiple, regional school districts as we have here in southern Arizona.

Coming out of 'middle school/junior high', it would seem that you'd better have a career path figured out. This way, you can hope to get into the right high school curriculum.

 

[Kelly A]

Guess I would qualify as one of those 'old goats'. This business has been very good to me, so I have no complaints.
The difference I see in some of my peers over the years, is that I was fortunate enough to be in a position to see things from the business perspective of the industry. The sought-after skill I developed was the ability to translate techno-babble into business speak for the folks who were writing checks.

Many of my peers were/are very passionate about their trade, but over the years made zero effort to continue their education as systems migrated from things built out of nuts, bolts, and aluminum, to IP-based systems.
Most modern transmitters being delivered are primarily PC's, with touch screens, and more recently fed directly IP streams (Dante, Ravenna, Livewire, 2110, etc.) . The broadcast technical side of the business has evolved over the years to an IT environment. The thought that someone who is well versed or educated in IT is somehow not qualified to install or maintain equipment in a modern broadcast environment, is kidding themselves. Sure there are older or small market facilities that are still being maintained by remaining Old Goats, but as those facilities are either forced to change due to un-supported equipment or stations folding up shop, the Goat's will be put out to pasture along with the the technology.

 

[kenglish]

Your engineers have gotta know both, or you have more than one guy...each with their own skills. IT is a huge skill set, and so is audio, video and RF. Not to mention the ability to wade through the government regulations. You also need good eyes and ears.

 

[TheBigA]

Your engineers have gotta know both, or you have more than one guy..

This is why radio stations prefer to contract with outside engineering companies who can provide whatever services a station needs, rather than hire employees with salary and benefits.

 

[davideduardo]

This is why radio stations prefer to contract with outside engineering companies who can provide whatever services a station needs, rather than hire employees with salary and benefits.

For decades smaller market stations as well as small metro stations have used contract engineers for service. Usually that means one or two engineers who are available for emergency service as well as regular maintenance and special projects such as new equipment installations, site moves, etc.

Contract engineers have to provide emergency services; this is not a 9 to 5 job.

Generally, a cluster of several stations or more will still find it both more effective and more responsive to have a combination of staff engineer(s) and outside backup. In a number of markets I am familiar with there are contract engineers who can be called for special projects, an emergency that needs additional help and the like.

 

[frankberry]

Old Goats are going to stay employed at the big stations in major markets. These stations can't wait for a Contract Engineer when something goes very wrong.

 

[davideduardo]

Old Goats are going to stay employed at the big stations in major markets. These stations can't wait for a Contract Engineer when something goes very wrong.

This is not like other contract services such as A/C maintenance where you can wait till the next day for service. Even with contract engineers in smaller markets, owners expect immediate response.

What many in the "don't know that red-red-red is 2.2 k" category don't understand is that even with redundancy, stations can be off the air due to what the insurance calls "acts of God" like surges, electrical shorts, lightening strikes or the just-fired employee who peed in the rack before he left...

 

[frankberry]

This is not like other contract services such as A/C maintenance where you can wait till the next day for service. Even with contract engineers in smaller markets, owners expect immediate response.

What many in the "don't know that red-red-red is 2.2 k" category don't understand is that even with redundancy, stations can be off the air due to what the insurance calls "acts of God" like surges, electrical shorts, lightening strikes or the just-fired employee who peed in the rack before he left...

While living in Florida, I saw situations where multiple stations went down due to lightning and the poor contract engineer didn't know which station to help first.

 

[kenglish]

While living in Florida, I saw situations where multiple stations went down due to lightning and the poor contract engineer didn't know which station to help first.

I was just about to mention, as you posted this....
Many of the contract engineers are "old goats". They aren't making those any more.
Several years ago, we lost a guy who was doing much of the contract work, especially for AM MW stations. I honestly believe that was when many locals began sounding lousy. We've had several chiefs and assistants (excellent RF guys) retire over the last three or four years. Also, others have died young.
Many stations won't allow their engineers to do outside work, some look the other way. God forbid we have a major disaster.

 

[Kelly A]

Many stations won't allow their engineers to do outside work, some look the other way. God forbid we have a major disaster.

That's what business interruption insurance is for.

 

[kenglish]

What about the people who depend on the TV and radio stations for their news and info?
The cell phones won't work after the power has been down a few hours.
I remember (vividly) being in a Georgia hotel, and waking up to find the parking lot filled with power-company trucks from many states, as they had pulled in over night on a convoy from helping out after a Florida hurricane.
I wonder if such a response could be expected in the broadcast engineering community?

 

[Harvey_Dogg]

Today's electronics are far more reliable than equipment in the past. With tubes something was breaking down all the time at the station.
A new transmitter might go years without a failure. Us old goats aren't much needed now.

 

[Kelly A]

What about the people who depend on the TV and radio stations for their news and info?
The cell phones won't work after the power has been down a few hours.
I remember (vividly) being in a Georgia hotel, and waking up to find the parking lot filled with power-company trucks from many states, as they had pulled in over night on a convoy from helping out after a Florida hurricane.
I wonder if such a response could be expected in the broadcast engineering community?

With the exception of a handful of places, there are more than one TV or radio station available to pick up the slack if needed. That, and 40% of the public, now gets their "news" from ridiculous sources like Facebook.

As someone else mentioned, unless the station owner is also the chief engineer, they're probably using contract help. If things are so bad that the contract labor can't get to the station, you're out of luck anyway. May as well notify your insurance company that you will be filing a claim(s).

I've helped a TV station in Binghamton NY that got literally turned inside out by a tornado. The tower fell over and everything. We had them back on cable in 24 hours, when the local PBS station offered use of a studio, and had them back transmitting from a new replacement tower and antenna in about 45 days. Frankly, I believe the business interruption insurance paid out more than the station would have made in that month or so anyway.