WXRT had similar issues after CBS purchased them and the early-mid 2010's is considered a dark age for that station. Just seems like CBS didn't know what they were doing in general.
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Entercom's alternative experiment not a success?
- Thread starter tall_guy1
- Start date
CBS radio, for the longest time, even going back to the Infinity Era, or even Infinity pre-CBS, seemed to run their Alternative stations with an Active Rock lean. CBS also tended to run tight-playlists on their stations, maybe not as much as Cox and Clear Channel, but certainly more than Entercom.
In the 90's Infinity launched KOME San Jose, K-Rock in NYC and reimaged 96.5 The Peak in Denver as these in-your-face, Howard Stern in the morning, Alternative stations that bordered on Active Rock. While KROQ Los Angeles somewhat bucked the trend, by still sprinkling In more female-friendly artists such as Jewel, Sixpence None the Richer and Dave Matthews Band, even KROQ eventually moved in that direction.
Then again, even as far back as 1989, the management of KROQ was lamenting about not breaking Guns N Roses 2 years prior. By this time, KROQ seemed to want the shed its euro-friendly, post-punk, synth-pop sound, and move on to more conventional rock music. By the early 90's, KROQ, like most Modern Rock stations at the time, starting playing Grunge music. The only difference was KROQ played this music long before other Modern Rock stations, and in a much greater frequency. Under Kevin Weatherly, the station ran a Top 40 rotation of STP, Nirvana, RitM and so on. In 1992 and 1993, most of the European music was slowly scrapped in favor of this new sound. Artists that didn't even hit the Modern Rock chart, or just scrapped the bottom of the chart, would be in the Top 10 on the KROQ charts in both those years. In LA, this worked at the time, with the station finally having Arbitron success it hasn't seen since the mid-80's. While KROQ wasn't the hard rock station it was in the late-90's and much of the 2000's, KROQ in 1993 had more of a hard rock lean then most Modern Rock stations of its era.
While the approach worked for KROQ, it didn't necessary work elsewere. To me, it seemed like Howard Stern was the only thing that kept the ratings high on most CBS alt-rockers. I will also note that many once-great Alternative stations went down under Infinity/ CBS, including WHFS in D.C. The Alt stations that CBS didn't flip, like Live 105 in San Francisco, would suffer in the ratings through the 2000's. Then again, maybe changing up the sound that was developed when Entercom owned Live 105 in the late 80's, through the Mid-90's, didn't help matters. CBS knew who to run heavy alternatives stations with shock jocks in the morning, and little else. Which is why more Adult-oriented Alternative stations, such as XRT, suffered under CBS.
I will say though the new Pop/ Alternative focus of the Entercom stations somewhat surprises me. Entercom owned the great LIve 105 between 1986 and 1997, which was very adventurous for a commercial Alt Rocker. They played Grunge, Synth-pop, Punk, Hip-Hop, just plain Pop, hell even Tony Bennett. Live 105 was also one of the last major market Alt-Rockers to still play European music, even after most Alt-rockers became predominantly Grunge based. Live 105 throughout much of the 90's would only spin their top record 30 times a week, a far cry from today were that Post Malone song, which sounds like it belongs on a Hot AC station, is played every hour.
KROQ Caught Between Rock and a Hard Place - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)
Smells Like Top 40? : As Alternative Music Gains Popularity, So Does KROQ Radio - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)
In the 90's Infinity launched KOME San Jose, K-Rock in NYC and reimaged 96.5 The Peak in Denver as these in-your-face, Howard Stern in the morning, Alternative stations that bordered on Active Rock. While KROQ Los Angeles somewhat bucked the trend, by still sprinkling In more female-friendly artists such as Jewel, Sixpence None the Richer and Dave Matthews Band, even KROQ eventually moved in that direction.
Then again, even as far back as 1989, the management of KROQ was lamenting about not breaking Guns N Roses 2 years prior. By this time, KROQ seemed to want the shed its euro-friendly, post-punk, synth-pop sound, and move on to more conventional rock music. By the early 90's, KROQ, like most Modern Rock stations at the time, starting playing Grunge music. The only difference was KROQ played this music long before other Modern Rock stations, and in a much greater frequency. Under Kevin Weatherly, the station ran a Top 40 rotation of STP, Nirvana, RitM and so on. In 1992 and 1993, most of the European music was slowly scrapped in favor of this new sound. Artists that didn't even hit the Modern Rock chart, or just scrapped the bottom of the chart, would be in the Top 10 on the KROQ charts in both those years. In LA, this worked at the time, with the station finally having Arbitron success it hasn't seen since the mid-80's. While KROQ wasn't the hard rock station it was in the late-90's and much of the 2000's, KROQ in 1993 had more of a hard rock lean then most Modern Rock stations of its era.
While the approach worked for KROQ, it didn't necessary work elsewere. To me, it seemed like Howard Stern was the only thing that kept the ratings high on most CBS alt-rockers. I will also note that many once-great Alternative stations went down under Infinity/ CBS, including WHFS in D.C. The Alt stations that CBS didn't flip, like Live 105 in San Francisco, would suffer in the ratings through the 2000's. Then again, maybe changing up the sound that was developed when Entercom owned Live 105 in the late 80's, through the Mid-90's, didn't help matters. CBS knew who to run heavy alternatives stations with shock jocks in the morning, and little else. Which is why more Adult-oriented Alternative stations, such as XRT, suffered under CBS.
I will say though the new Pop/ Alternative focus of the Entercom stations somewhat surprises me. Entercom owned the great LIve 105 between 1986 and 1997, which was very adventurous for a commercial Alt Rocker. They played Grunge, Synth-pop, Punk, Hip-Hop, just plain Pop, hell even Tony Bennett. Live 105 was also one of the last major market Alt-Rockers to still play European music, even after most Alt-rockers became predominantly Grunge based. Live 105 throughout much of the 90's would only spin their top record 30 times a week, a far cry from today were that Post Malone song, which sounds like it belongs on a Hot AC station, is played every hour.
KROQ Caught Between Rock and a Hard Place - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)
Smells Like Top 40? : As Alternative Music Gains Popularity, So Does KROQ Radio - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)
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Companies don't program radio stations...programmers do. Just about all of the people from that era are gone. There's a new group running things now. They do things differently.
That is true. Back in those days each station was programmed on a local level, with some oversight from the higher ups. I will also add that while most of the people from that level are gone, their are still program directors on the local level that do a stellar job with their stations. I mean, prior to Entercom centralizing their stations, most of their stations did a stellar job at tailoring each of their stations for their specific markets.
Alternative Cool New Music of the Week:
Chevelle - Self Destructor (veteran alt-metal band)
Deftones - Ceremony (veteran alt-metal band, also going for adds 1/26)
The Kid LAROI - Without You (pop artist, charted briefly in December due to being a Entercom Pick of the Week)
Kings of Leon - The Bandit (veteran alt-rock band, going for adds 1/12)
nothing.nowhere - fake friend (emo rapper trying his hand at pop-punk, the current Entercom Pick of the Week, going for adds 1/19)
Phoebe Bridgers - Kyoto (AAA crossover)
Plus a Duran Duran cover of David Bowie's "Five Years" was just added to the CNM list too.
This is such a crazy list. I love it.
Chevelle - Self Destructor (veteran alt-metal band)
Deftones - Ceremony (veteran alt-metal band, also going for adds 1/26)
The Kid LAROI - Without You (pop artist, charted briefly in December due to being a Entercom Pick of the Week)
Kings of Leon - The Bandit (veteran alt-rock band, going for adds 1/12)
nothing.nowhere - fake friend (emo rapper trying his hand at pop-punk, the current Entercom Pick of the Week, going for adds 1/19)
Phoebe Bridgers - Kyoto (AAA crossover)
Plus a Duran Duran cover of David Bowie's "Five Years" was just added to the CNM list too.
This is such a crazy list. I love it.
KROQ
It’s a good list. KROQ is currently playing Heat Waves by Glass Animals and introduced it as “new music.” Song was on Sirius last June.
And they are firmly anchored at 20th in 12+ in the last book.
It's actually AllAccess' list, not KROQ or Entercom. AllAccess is literally begging Alt radio to play these songs.
I have a subscription to XM, including internet only stations. I mostly listen to WEQX which plays everything from Tool to Bon Iver and everything in between from experimental electronic alternative to folk to pop to rock. I doubt it would work for general commercial listeners. I understand alternative must find a niche to be successful on commercial radio but true alternative is a mix of it all.
Well, if this isn't a double middle-finger-raising tripling down move by Entercom I don't know what is.
The fact this is happening in a week where the only song going for Alt adds is "Ceremony" by Deftones makes it even funnier.
The fact this is happening in a week where the only song going for Alt adds is "Ceremony" by Deftones makes it even funnier.
This thread is a bit dead, but I would like to throw my two cents in.
Of course this experiment was dead in the water. Imagine how the drastic shift in programming had to have been for listeners. Playlists are stale as hell, even staler than regular corporate alts owned by iHeartRadio and other companies. I remember how stale WRDA (now WBZY) was before switching to Spanish CHR. KTBZ wasn’t too much better, though it seems in much better shape than when I last heard it in 2016-2018. At least there was a bit of variation for the locales though. Entercom alts don’t really vary, save a few songs. There’s no regard for local culture or listening habits. Something had to be done to keep costs low, but it’s clear this was another disaster for Entercom. Do they take the loss and keep Kaplan until they can axe him, or do they axe him in the near future for someone else to help alleviate the ruin? It’s clear that this was all a temporary fix than a permanent format change.
To be fair, I don’t hate the idea of alt pop, but the programming could’ve been done in a better way. The way it’s currently being executed screams pandering towards teenagers hard. It’s desperate and sad. Even I feel out of place at 17. I can’t imagine how the regular listeners feel. The artist and song choices are absolutely terrible. An industry plant teenager, affluent TikTok influencer, the #26th most popular song of 2020 according to Billboard, the man that made the most popular album of 2020 according to Billboard, and I could go on. It’s crazy how out of touch WNYL and KROQ’s playlists are.
Of course this experiment was dead in the water. Imagine how the drastic shift in programming had to have been for listeners. Playlists are stale as hell, even staler than regular corporate alts owned by iHeartRadio and other companies. I remember how stale WRDA (now WBZY) was before switching to Spanish CHR. KTBZ wasn’t too much better, though it seems in much better shape than when I last heard it in 2016-2018. At least there was a bit of variation for the locales though. Entercom alts don’t really vary, save a few songs. There’s no regard for local culture or listening habits. Something had to be done to keep costs low, but it’s clear this was another disaster for Entercom. Do they take the loss and keep Kaplan until they can axe him, or do they axe him in the near future for someone else to help alleviate the ruin? It’s clear that this was all a temporary fix than a permanent format change.
WEQX is my choice alt as well. I appreciate the variety it has. It’s definitely very Indie AAA-leaning though. Tweak the formula to be more Active rock-leaning, Alt pop-leaning, or Indie rock-leaning and I think it could work for any market. There are currents they play and you can catch them a lot, but the real joy is that they don’t beat recurrent songs to death. Let’s be honest, the same 90s and 2000s hits played over and over again gets very boring. Most of us have probably heard “If You Could Only See”, “Like A Stone”, “Use Somebody”, etc. ad nauseam. WEQX goes all in with recurrents.
To be fair, I don’t hate the idea of alt pop, but the programming could’ve been done in a better way. The way it’s currently being executed screams pandering towards teenagers hard. It’s desperate and sad. Even I feel out of place at 17. I can’t imagine how the regular listeners feel. The artist and song choices are absolutely terrible. An industry plant teenager, affluent TikTok influencer, the #26th most popular song of 2020 according to Billboard, the man that made the most popular album of 2020 according to Billboard, and I could go on. It’s crazy how out of touch WNYL and KROQ’s playlists are.
Billie Eilish, I assume? And, as a 17-year-old neither in the radio or the music business, you know this for certain how?
By the way, you write very well, far better than other teenagers who post here. I'm 65 and have been in print media for 40+ years and have seen writing from professionals much older than you that yours puts to shame.
I was actually referring to The Kid LAROI. The thing about him being an industry plant is more of a joke in the pop and rap communities than anything. The other artists I’m referring to are Nessa Barrett, blackbear, and Post Malone, who are all getting airplay on the Entercom alts. This may be an old fashioned way of thinking but I believe “alternative” is more the image an artist conveys than the music they make. For example, Taylor Swift can pretend all she wants but that doesn’t change the fact that she has 7 #1 hits on the Hot 100, 2 resulting from her new schtick. Billie Eilish, hovewer, I don’t have a problem with. Her music isn’t too poppy and she doesn’t carry herself like a typical popstar. Though the fact that she collaborated with a few pop acts before she broke out gives her less alt cred in my opinion.
It’s a big ask for the current identity crisis format to change, but it really needs to stop trying to make pop alternative. There are plenty of cool alternative artists that aren’t getting the radio play they should. Corporations bought out the alternative format and forced AAA to become the music discovery format. It sounds preposterous, because that format used to be reserved for Jack Johnson and Dave Matthews Band and all the other slow rock songs! Now it hosts the fun newcomers like Tune-Yards., Soccer Mommy, Jade Bird, and Phoebe Bridgers who seemingly can’t get organic radio play (not a knock on her but a knock on Entercom and iHeart), as well as veterans like Spoon, Sleater-Kinney, and Semisonic (though AAA also kind of slept on their new EP).
Sort of hard to think about what these alt stations would play pre-merger. My sense is the heritage Entercom alt stations, such as KRBZ or KNDD were given a lot of latitude in music decisions. Not so much now.
Indeed they were and krbz in particular was adventurous in finding new alternative music. Not now. All the entercom alternative's now lean pop, and they all even played sk8er boy by avril lavigne during their women of alternative weekend!
As the topic of this thread suggests it might be worthwhile to allow some stations the latitude they once had.
One size fits all might not apply to this format.
It doesn't in KC. As the "Buzz" they had a good run of promotions (which isn't Entercom's fault, because, COVID) but they broke numerous artists and created a community around Buzz Beach Ball, Kegs and Eggs, etc. combined with Lazlo's ear for new music. I'm not sure why it'd be more expensive to let them do it again - they already trimmed back most of the staff before the rebrand. Jereny, Lazlo & Slimfast, and Hartzell at night were the only ones on air/program staff left IIRC.
But much work needs to be done to change the ad agency/advertiser stereotypes of what the alt listener is. Right now, that stereotype is young, white, male, suburban, unemployed/underemployed and cynical, especially about advertising and buying into anything seen as "popular" by the masses. No national advertiser would actively seek such a person, nor would one believe that tweaking a format to attract larger numbers of those people would make that station any more attractive a buy. Tweaking to attract more of the mainstream masses doesn't work well either -- it drives off almost all of the P1s, who despise anything mainstream, and replaces them with people who will make the station a third or fourth choice at best because too much of the music still sounds like something a pallid or acne-ridden 25-year-old playing games online for hours in Mom's basement would be playing.
The format worked years ago though....
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