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February 2021 Ratings

It seems like it should be (all things being relative) a fairly strong cluster to sell. Nothing is perfect, but there are some good opportunities there.

I’m not sure there’s much they can do even programming wise. I’m so far out of the audience I’ll be the first to say I don’t know if they’re doing the fundamentals well for the format. But knocking off a station as entrenched as Q102 is a tough slog even under better circumstances.

Then again, maybe the second place there is good enough relative to the cluster. Look at WPEN. They‘Re certainly no threat to WIP for the foreseeable future (if you define threat as surpassing them in the beauty contest numbers). But as part of an overall cluster, and with careful budget management, being the second sports station can be a viable place to land.
 
Steve Green NEPA said:
Question for David Gleason , or of someone suitably authoritative :

I trust I'm not THAT off-topic here, but anyway, here goes.

Over the 15 or so years I've been on these radio boards, there has been tons of easy reading about major markets and agency advertising. I had done much radio for 26 years .... DJ, news, PD, music director -- every possible format. But that was a long time ago.
Oh yeah. That;s right, My question.

The big conflict re the topic of research and demos seems to arise amid much vitriol from the major markets. Can you approximate at what size / rated market number at which the agency purchases begin to dwindle and become not the priority?
See, the closest market to here, Allentown, is a lofty #74..... growth, sprawl, some huge radio signals, a clean airport. So how much national ad revenue does their perennial #1 station (Classic Rock WODE) depend on to stay successful?
If the answer is 'very little', then what approximate number market would you say is the cutoff for that ?
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There are several factors...

Agency national buys may use radio as a supplement to other media. But because radio is much harder to buy than national TV or new media, just the top markets may be included. That may be top 10 (30% of all radio revenue is historically in those few markets) or top 25 or top 50 or a hundred. So many markets get left out.

Leading stations get most of the money. But in NYC, being in the top 20 or so can get you on buys. In Fargo, maybe the top 4 or 5 get most of the revenue from national accounts.

So, as markets get smaller, less money comes from agencies and the less deep the buys.
 
AbrahamJSimpson said:
It seems like it should be (all things being relative) a fairly strong cluster to sell. Nothing is perfect, but there are some good opportunities there.

I’m not sure there’s much they can do even programming wise. I’m so far out of the audience I’ll be the first to say I don’t know if they’re doing the fundamentals well for the format. But knocking off a station as entrenched as Q102 is a tough slog even under better circumstances.

Then again, maybe the second place there is good enough relative to the cluster. Look at WPEN. They‘Re certainly no threat to WIP for the foreseeable future (if you define threat as surpassing them in the beauty contest numbers). But as part of an overall cluster, and with careful budget management, being the second sports station can be a viable place to land.
Click to expand...

Agreed. If I were a sales person here in Philly, I'd probably want to hitch my wagon to Beasley but if I couldn't do that, I'd be aiming for Entercom. (And in reality, Entercom seems a bit less "stuffy" and like a more fun and modern work environment...so while my brain$ would be hoping for Beasley, my heart would be sending applications to Entercom.)

Also agreed: Second place ain't bad. In any contest I'd rather be runner-up than...whatever Urban One is currently considered. But seriously, in a large market, if you own five stations and they're all being beaten by a competing station (in other words, all five of your stations are in second place), you'll still be very $ucce$$ful.
 
somebody has to be the strongest and weakest link in a cluster right? The big three all have strong spots and a problem child or so (just a figure of speech). And the world keeps on spinning :)
 
But is it? WTDY is 7th 18-34.
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How many advertisers & agencies are using RADIO to target young adults? And how many would be willing to buy seven stations deep in that demo? My guess - few.

"More FM" should've been left alone, and 96.5 should've been flipped to soft AC to pre-empt a move by 106.1 to that format. Too late now.

What option might be good for 96.5 present-day?

I'd choose Rock or Classic Rock, personally. Try to grab some of the massive share currently held by WMGK and WMMR.
 
MarkW said:
How many advertisers & agencies are using RADIO to target young adults? And how many would be willing to buy seven stations deep in that demo? My guess - few.
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Then you are wrong. Radio delivers very effective 18-34 numbers and ads are priced based on delivery.
 
So, I'll repeat my earlier question: how many advertisers who wish to target that audience are willing to buy 7 stations deep? My guess is such purchases to the extent they occur command fairly cheap rates.

In my market, I hear few commercials that are exclusively geared to young adults. 25+? Sure. Not 18-24.

Too many stations targeting older listeners. Consider they also own KYW and WPHT.
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It's been shown in other markets properly programmed mild AC stations can command very respectable 18-49 numbers. True, that isn't going to be the case everywhere. I'd be curious to know how well 106.1 The Breeze is faring in that department.

WPHT has a very small but devoutly loyal audience. In Philly, that format is ultra niche. That station shouldn't enter the equation when making programming decisions for an FM music station that is designed to be mass appeal. (They are getting narrowly outcumed in the Philly market by New Jersey 101.5, I might add.)

There are 13 shares' worth of rock controlled by just two stations in the market right now (both of whom have phenomenal adult demo numbers); that's where I'd try to make my move based on the lay of the land as it sits today.

Post-COVID, as concert tours become a "thing" again and CHR/Pop current product improves, one could make an argument that stations such as Q102 and TDY-FM will see a ratings rebound. Bigger picture, I think many markets will have difficulty sustaining two CHR/Pop stations over the long term.
 
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I'd suggest that programming decisions and sales are quite intertwined--so I'm not sure how WPHT and KYW wouldn't factor in to deciding where to aim B101's approach (not to mention the other stations in the cluster, it's not just "A" or "B").
 
MarkW said:
WPHT has a very small but devoutly loyal audience. In Philly, that format is ultra niche. That station shouldn't enter the equation when making programming decisions for an FM music station that is designed to be mass appeal.
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My point is the cluster as a whole is very old. They don't need another format that appeals to that demo. They've got it covered with other stations. WTDY as it is now combines well with WBEB.
 
bizzle13 said:
What about a Spanish language format?
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That was tried in a major disaster some years back. The problem is that assimilated Hispanics use Spanish language radio "sparingly" or not at all. And much of the Philadelphia Hispanic community dates back to the Puerto Rican diaspora of the 50's and 60's. Those migrants are now in their 60's and 70's at least, and the grand-kids are not listening to Spanish radio.

While there is a smaller influx of Mexican immigrants and some from elsewhere, there are not astoundingly plentiful jobs in Philadelphia so it's not a migrant magnet today.
 
That's unfortunate. It's not very inclusive for those who want it. NYC has two Spanish language stations 97.9 and 96.3.
 
bizzle13 said:
That's unfortunate. It's not very inclusive for those who want it. NYC has two Spanish language stations 97.9 and 96.3.
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Also 93.1 and 92.7

NYC has a huge first generation Dominican community, responsible for much of the Spanish language listening.

The problem in Philadelphia is not about not being inclusive... it is about a very small community of Spanish dominant Hispanics which is not big enough to sustain an expensive FM station. So Spanish language programming is on smaller AMs and translators, and even then they don't make much money.

NYC has just a tad under 5,000,000 Hispanics. Philadelphia has about one-tenth of that. NYC is a destination for immigrants, Philadelphia is not.
 
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