Has 96.5 just taken a massive fall from grace or what? It's situation to a lesser extent is similar to B96 in chicago
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WTDY
- Thread starter CassChopper96
- Start date
Perhaps to fall from grace, one had to have been in grace?
Maybe more a general slide over time that landed them where they are? Shifting around that space between AC and CHR (understandably so under the circumstances) without the benefit of heritage or much in the way of marketing support kind of led to about what you'd expect. Not something more sudden along the lines of B101's fall off post-sale.
Maybe more a general slide over time that landed them where they are? Shifting around that space between AC and CHR (understandably so under the circumstances) without the benefit of heritage or much in the way of marketing support kind of led to about what you'd expect. Not something more sudden along the lines of B101's fall off post-sale.
It's always been puzzling how Philadelphia has no use for a Hot AC station. How long did 106.1 try to position itself somewhere between B101 and WIOQ? Hot AC, Rhythmic AC (with Whoopi Goldberg as morning DJ), anything they could think of. Now it's enjoying big success with Soft AC, moving softer than B101.
So what does Audacy do with 96.5? All the positions in Philadelphia seem to be filled.
--Go complete Top 40 and challenge WIOQ directly? Most large markets have two Top 40 stations. Although as said above, WBBM-FM Chicago, owned by Audacy, is a very distant second to iHeart's WKSC in the Top 40 race there. Audacy just relaunched KAMP Los Angeles, but it also has only a fraction of the ratings of iHeart's KIIS-FM.
--Go Rock? But are WMMR and WMGK so well established for decades that there's no room for a challenger? And as the market's third rock station, the ratings for WRFF are not bright.
--Maybe try Guy Talk. It does well in Tampa and Orlando. WIP-FM had been successful when it was WYSP, doing Hot Talk with some Rock music, even after Howard Stern left for Sirius. But would a Guy Talk 96.5 cut into WIP-FM's numbers?
--Do some form of Urban? The WPHI simulcast of KYW means there's one less Urban station in the market. But how would Urban One feel about that, as the sale of WPHI is in progress. Urban One still owns two stations in Philadelphia that would be hurt by an Urban 96.5.
--Reggaeton/Tropical? Philadelphia is the largest market with no Spanish-language FM station. The city has Spanish-language TV stations but only a couple of small AM stations aimed at the Latino community, although one has an FM translator. But Bomba 104.5 was such a big disappointment some years ago, maybe no one will try that again?
--Smooth AC, similar to Audacy's KTWV Los Angeles? Smooth Jazz was always popular in Philadelphia, so maybe a Soft Rhythmic AC like The Wave? But that gets us back again to the failures at 106.1. And maybe it would take out a segment of B101's audience? Or maybe not. KOST and KTWV both have excellent ratings in L.A. And I like listening on line to The Wave, so that would get my vote, a Philly version of Rhythmic AC but not too hard and no rap, with all songs easy to identify, even if you're not a big fan of Urban stations.
So what does Audacy do with 96.5? All the positions in Philadelphia seem to be filled.
--Go complete Top 40 and challenge WIOQ directly? Most large markets have two Top 40 stations. Although as said above, WBBM-FM Chicago, owned by Audacy, is a very distant second to iHeart's WKSC in the Top 40 race there. Audacy just relaunched KAMP Los Angeles, but it also has only a fraction of the ratings of iHeart's KIIS-FM.
--Go Rock? But are WMMR and WMGK so well established for decades that there's no room for a challenger? And as the market's third rock station, the ratings for WRFF are not bright.
--Maybe try Guy Talk. It does well in Tampa and Orlando. WIP-FM had been successful when it was WYSP, doing Hot Talk with some Rock music, even after Howard Stern left for Sirius. But would a Guy Talk 96.5 cut into WIP-FM's numbers?
--Do some form of Urban? The WPHI simulcast of KYW means there's one less Urban station in the market. But how would Urban One feel about that, as the sale of WPHI is in progress. Urban One still owns two stations in Philadelphia that would be hurt by an Urban 96.5.
--Reggaeton/Tropical? Philadelphia is the largest market with no Spanish-language FM station. The city has Spanish-language TV stations but only a couple of small AM stations aimed at the Latino community, although one has an FM translator. But Bomba 104.5 was such a big disappointment some years ago, maybe no one will try that again?
--Smooth AC, similar to Audacy's KTWV Los Angeles? Smooth Jazz was always popular in Philadelphia, so maybe a Soft Rhythmic AC like The Wave? But that gets us back again to the failures at 106.1. And maybe it would take out a segment of B101's audience? Or maybe not. KOST and KTWV both have excellent ratings in L.A. And I like listening on line to The Wave, so that would get my vote, a Philly version of Rhythmic AC but not too hard and no rap, with all songs easy to identify, even if you're not a big fan of Urban stations.
This is where it seems they might be in a bind. Nibbling too close to their established properties is likely to be less successful than the also-ran CHR. Rock...well, heck, sure, they could try. MGK and MMR are so entrenched it sees like a fool's errand, but it's not like we've never seen that before.
Philly is a big time rock market, and there is definitely room for a new entrant. Rock or classic rock on 96.5 could pair very nicely with 94.1 WIP.
B101 skews Hot AC and when it was 101.1 More FM, it easily could've gotten away with being a credible Hot AC panelist. I would not skew B101 older / softer. I think that would be a bad idea.
Entercom screwed up by not flipping 96.5 to Soft AC before 106.1 went that route, in my opinion.
Another possibility for 96.5 - how about Country? Or did the divestiture terms involving 92.5 XTU contain a covenant preventing Audacy (Entercom) from launching a direct competitor to that station?
Frankly, WWDB should've never been allowed to bite the dust. Wild 96.5 / Wired 96.5 was a rather pathetic station for most of its life. In a way, the present day 96.5 TDY is following in its footsteps.
B101 skews Hot AC and when it was 101.1 More FM, it easily could've gotten away with being a credible Hot AC panelist. I would not skew B101 older / softer. I think that would be a bad idea.
Entercom screwed up by not flipping 96.5 to Soft AC before 106.1 went that route, in my opinion.
Another possibility for 96.5 - how about Country? Or did the divestiture terms involving 92.5 XTU contain a covenant preventing Audacy (Entercom) from launching a direct competitor to that station?
Frankly, WWDB should've never been allowed to bite the dust. Wild 96.5 / Wired 96.5 was a rather pathetic station for most of its life. In a way, the present day 96.5 TDY is following in its footsteps.
I don't think so. Agencies look at buying multiple formats within the station mix that they select.
If a buy is 10-deep in Philly, they will not buy three rockers. They may buy the two, but they may also look at cume duplication and look to buy just one of the rockers and reach the cume of the other by duplication with other stations they buy.
CHR is in a lull right now. Good idea, wrong time. We will see if new product improves after the pandemic further subsides.
I don't think that agencies will buy rock three deep.
Sports is "guy talk" in markets with major league Basketball, Baseball and Football teams. You can't do guy talk without sports unless you are Howard Stern.
A full signal urban variant may be a possibility.
The Hispanic community is mostly based on the Puerto Rican diaspora of the 50's and 60's. The sales demo Hispanics are mostly second and third generation and are not prime Spanish language listeners. There are just not enough Spanish dominant 18 to 49 year old residents there.
The Wave dates back to the 80's and has taken a content that started as new wave and progressed into smooth jazz and is now a rhythmic leaning AC. It's great quality is heritage and that it is a station your Uber driver knows won't piss off anyone.
I don't think it can be recreated.
Chicago has two CHR stations and a HOT AC. all three of which have close to identical playlists
So, can you really not sell to upper demmos? Hot AC reaches to philly with wSTW, don't forget WPST which also reaches to parts of Philly...) What I don't understand more than anything else is, why does radio ignore anyone over 54? Surely people who are over this age listen to radio and have more money to spend on things then the younger demmo no? 50's-70's Oldies is gone. Smooth Jazz is gone. Upper demo formats. Or hell take the CHR they got now and take a chance. Radio doesn't go to youtube music or spotify for the hits. Not saying it'd work, but it would at least be CHR done differently. Hyper active on new music. and think about the top 5 rated stations. Personality! Especially in the case of WMMR, but MGK too and even DAS-FM to a degree. I'm not suggesting put more personality and the listeners will come. Q102 is a heritage CHR. I don't see them ever going away. Between them and PST, to me TDY is the third CHR.
Who do you think makes up most of KYW's audience? And WPHT? And WHYY? And WXPN? Shall I go on?
Only one I knew that deff. served an older demmo was WPHT. So Conservative Talk and news are the only commercial formats that can be viable in Philly? Actually, I'm surprised they didn't put KYW on 96.5. They could have put WPHT on 103.9. Although WPHT on FM would probably not be a money maker either. I'm not sure what would work on that 96.5 frequency but I don't think what they're doing is working well.
The facto here is the number of ad impressions required to get a listener to buy or use whatever is advertised. The older a consumer gets, the harder it is to get them to change what are often life-long habits.
At some point it takes more money in advertising to make the sale than the profit on the sale. TV campaigns generally are 18-49, radio is a bit more open, with 25-54 being the broad demo. But to answer your concern, nearly no mass market ad campaigns include any portion of the over-55 audience.
So radio does not "ignore" those over 55. Commercial radio stations just can't make money if most of their audience is over 55 because there are no ad buys for them.
In TV, CBS spent years trying to get advertisers to accept up to age 65 as the new ceiling, with top level agency and client meetings... and little in the way of results.
Only when advertisers decide slightly older listeners and viewers can be productive ad targets will we see radio stations program specifically to seniors.
What makes you think people over 55 don't listen to hits from the 80s or WXTU? WXPN is a AAA station and plays a lot of older music. They did a 50th anniversary of Woodstock a few years ago. On the other hand, did you know that WISX, The Breeze, is Top 5 with people 18-34? So there you have a station that plays 70s music and reaches younger demos. Don't be so quick to stereotype people.
WOGL today, broadly, is playing music comparable to, and in some cases older than, when it began, relative to the current day. Some folks may have gotten knotted knickers over the term oldies, and semantic games are all well and good, but in the real world, oldies aren’t dead, they’re just under a different label. 98 finally lurched ahead to keep up with the same target audience, it just took them a while.
WSTW is CHR yet it is more adult leaning but it is CHR. Technically TDY is the 4th CHR in the area.
And yet, as I said, it is a Top 5 station among 18-34. WMMR is #1.
The people I know that are older do not listen to OTA radio. I'm not trying to stereotype anybody, I'm only saying there are format holes, but they target older people. Demmo's which are hard to sell. if at all.
So what's your solution?
Soft AC's audience seems to be a bit more diverse than a lot of folks might assume. I have witnessed people of all ages and races listening to The Breeze. When Sunny 104.5 was enjoying its second life--and I was in my mid-to-late 20's--I was very surprised to find myself listening to it almost exclusively. It seems to me to be one of the more "universal" radio formats out there today. And at the end of the day, depending on what else they have going on in the cluster, if they're able to sell enough ads, does it really matter who they're selling them to?
Radio isn't maliciously "ignoring" older listeners. If you can do a format that will make more money by targeting literally any combination of other demos (which just so happen to be younger), it simply doesn't make sense to instead program a station that caters to a less ad-friendly audience (which just so happens to be older). It's just business.
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