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WTDY

Media is one of the more interesting businesses in that they have to attract the product to sell. Walmart wants something their shoppers want? They place a purchase order, and off the shelf it flies. (Oversimplification, I know, but still....) But if they had to actually get the ketchup bottles to want to come into their store in order to be sold... (No real point to that except the idea I find funny of a condiment deciding which store's shelf it wants to be on.)

Everyone wants an edge. To find the key to success someone else isn't pursuing. If it were viable, someone would be all over it.
 
Radio is not at fault for not going after older demographics. It is the advertising agency and advertiser that dictate who they choose to target as far as age goes and what media they have found produces the best results. The person jumping radio's case is about like complaining to the landlord about getting a bad haircut from one of their tenants. Radio is a venue and the leasee (the business that advertises) chooses the venue they want. If that is going to change, older demographics should listen to commercials, change buying habits to advertised products and then those in charge of advertising dollars will want to target these demographics. Oh, and don't watch TV because television is a good media to reach upper demographics especially about products they have never needed in their lives until now.

Miguelito closes his post with an exceptional truism. Radio is a business. If you were starting a business would you want one where customers came to your store in droves and spent money or would you prefer to have a rare customer here or there? If you could choose, which would you want? If the choice was McDonald's or Taco Bell versus a cafe that featured Icelandic favorites, which might you prefer? I've tried to sell the groups that the ad agencies and major advertisers deem too costly to convert to customers. By the time you get a yes, you have already spent four or five times what you'll earn in commission getting all those no answers out of the way and the chances are very good that yes client will not renew. Selling older demos is like having an Icelandic favorites cafe. You'll likely need to dust instead of roll more silverware. Many know this by simply listening to that rare station that plays music the older demographics want. You note they have few commercials and they're usually far apart. Was it LA metro AM that played oldies but the owner said it could not even cover (or barely) the light bill when it came to revenue?
 
Radio isn't maliciously "ignoring" older listeners. If you can do a format that will make more money by targeting literally any combination of other demos (which just so happen to be younger), it simply doesn't make sense to instead program a station that caters to a less ad-friendly audience (which just so happens to be older). It's just business.

No because you'll make more money selling to the demmo's which you can get the most add dollars from.
 
So what does Audacy do with 96.5?

--Go complete Top 40 and challenge WIOQ directly? Most large markets have two Top 40 stations. Although as said above, WBBM-FM Chicago, owned by Audacy, is a very distant second to iHeart's WKSC in the Top 40 race there. Audacy just relaunched KAMP Los Angeles, but it also has only a fraction of the ratings of iHeart's KIIS-FM.

That lead me to questions. How much does ratings really matter?
if WTDY is able to get advertisers to pay the bills, then won't that be good enough?
Is it possible that the other stations in the cluster are making enough that it doesn't matter if this stations makes money or not as the others can prop up the business?
By now the station has been there long enough that you'd think somebody would have noticed. but CHR also isn't doing good now with the pandemic either.
Still the questions remain.
Then again if you have no ratings, then you have no listeners (if you believe that PPM tells the hole story.)
 
That lead me to questions. How much does ratings really matter?
if WTDY is able to get advertisers to pay the bills, then won't that be good enough?
Is it possible that the other stations in the cluster are making enough that it doesn't matter if this stations makes money or not as the others can prop up the business?
By now the station has been there long enough that you'd think somebody would have noticed. but CHR also isn't doing good now with the pandemic either.
Still the questions remain.
Then again if you have no ratings, then you have no listeners (if you believe that PPM tells the hole story.)
In large markets, the Sales department can't really sell without numbers to back them up. If a cluster is doing well and has one under-performer, then it is (demonstrably) possible that the station can chug along for quite a while--especially if the under-performer isn't actually costing the company money. I believe it was generally assumed that is what was happening with WSNI during that second life of Sunny 104.5. Such may be the case with WTDY today (no pun intended). But just like with Sunny, when the owner sees (what they think is) an opportunity to make more money with the frequency, the format will be bumped off.

If you're keeping an ear to 96.5 and waiting for a flip, you're probably better off waiting until the pandemic is quite far off in the rear-view mirror. The smartest thing they can to while there is so much uncertainty is to stay the course.
 
If you're keeping an ear to 96.5 and waiting for a flip, you're probably better off waiting until the pandemic is quite far off in the rear-view mirror. The smartest thing they can to while there is so much uncertainty is to stay the course.

No, I just was wondering if they were doing so bad in the ratings how they could be limping along for so long was all.
At least for now people will know what to hear when they turn on 96.5. I can't think what opportunity could be tried next. Anyone know how the '90s format is doing in Miami? What else hasn't been tried here? Taking my preferences away (because really they don't count), I can't think of what hasn't been tried before.
106 got Soft AC. what isn't covered?
 
No, I just was wondering if they were doing so bad in the ratings how they could be limping along for so long was all.
At least for now people will know what to hear when they turn on 96.5. I can't think what opportunity could be tried next. Anyone know how the '90s format is doing in Miami? What else hasn't been tried here? Taking my preferences away (because really they don't count), I can't think of what hasn't been tried before.
106 got Soft AC. what isn't covered?
I can't come up with any any format options for them in the foreseeable future. Everyone is pretty solidly locked into their positions at this point. Anything Entercom might try with 96.5 would have to be very careful to not take more than 10 sets of ears away from either WOGL and B101.1. That's a tightrope made of dental floss!
 
I can't come up with any format options for them in the foreseeable future. Everyone is pretty solidly locked into their positions at this point. Anything Entercom might try with 96.5 would have to be very careful to not take more than 10 sets of ears away from either WOGL and B101.1. That's a tightrope made of dental floss!

That's why I was thinking of the '90s. Anything older than what WOGL plays is too old, (I don't think it'd sell) and everything else is covered pretty well here.
So '90s um what. pop?
Is Ben-Fm in the same place as TDY? Just perhaps limping along?
 
Ben seems to be holding its own and I’d rather have Ben in my cluster than TDY, at least currently. Then again all things considered I’d rather have the Beasley cluster, though Audacy has some gems to be fair.
 
Ben seems to be holding its own and I’d rather have Ben in my cluster than TDY, at least currently. Then again all things considered I’d rather have the Beasley cluster, though Audacy has some gems to be fair.
☝☝☝☝☝ THIS! ☝☝☝☝☝

Couldn't agree more. In an alternate-universe Philly market where Beasley has WTDY and Audacy has BEN-FM, I'd one-hundred-damn-percent still want to be Beasley. And that's coming from someone who would chuck his 16-year career to go do human resources for Audacy but would turn down an offer from Beasley! All that having been said, I don't think Beasley is complaining much about BEN-FM.
 
If I may interject here, and bring my 24 year old thoughts into the conversation. I'm closer related to the millennials than gen z'ers, but sorta in between both. Anyway, I digress.

WTDY is in perhaps the trickiest situation in philly radio right now. Mostly all your major market formats are covered, some more than others.

Here are my thoughts on what formats they couldn't be blamed for trying next and why.
1- Country. WXTU is Philly's only country outlet. It's been that way for god knows how long. But, many large markets have multiple country stations, (i.e Dallas KSCS and KPLX, Atlanta WUBL, WKHX, Balt/Wash corridor WPOC, WMZQ, Boston WBWL, WKLB) Even Boston, north of Philly, has two country stations. I think the market is there for a competitor that plays music when WXTU is in commercials. I imagine that's how the two would co-exist in a listener's mind, "Oh XTU is playing ads, lemme go to 96.5). Would it/ should it try to blow XTU out of the water? No, absolutely not. that's likely impossible.
2- Classic alternative. A lesser-known format, but profitable and popular when done right. BUT, it would HAVE to play stuff none of the rockers (MMR, MGK, RFF) play. It would have to be unique, and lean in to playing all the alt rock Radio, I mean ALT 104.5 doesn't. But also toe the line between too obscure and too mainstream. I think with the right PDs and library curators it could easily work. Sorta reviving WDRE, but not really.
3- Pacifica Foundation/ WBAI. Not a ratings machine, but certainly would attract the WHYY/NPR/ Liberal audience. A few major setbacks though. Pacifica finically is not that great right now, especially after what happened with WBAI not that long ago.
4- Bloomberg radio. WDCH in Washington is a Bloomberg affiliate and does modestly well, and would likely attract an audience in Philly, seeing as how Philly is part of the 95 business corridor. Worth a shot at least, seeing as how I don't think Bloomberg has ever come to Philly.

Might I add that, I think attracting folks my age to radio is possible, but we'll have to think outside the box. The biggest issue with radio in our modern age is simply that it's not interactive. Spotify, podcasts on demand, have basically killed any real chance for radio to be the leading voice. You simply cannot compete with a medium that let's you hear exactly what you want to hear, when you want to hear it. Radio is controlled by someone else. Whatever they choose is what you're stuck with, even if you flip the dial, it's just another person.

So, we must then laser focus on what radio DOES have that nothing else can deliver. For one thing, it's free and doesn't use phone data. It's there when the power goes out. It's secure and doesn't track you or hack your data. It's safer when driving than using your phone. It's reliable and stands the test of time. But something I was going to say is actually no longer true. Underserved communities, local dialects and things like that don't need a community station necessarily anymore. Anyone with a half decent microphone can start a podcast or free internet stream and serve their community for next to nothing compared to trying to start an LPFM.

However, radio remains king in developing countries and poor countries. Because of limited or no internet access, MW/FM/Shortwave radio continues to deliver news and entertainment for free only limited by how far their signal travels. Until the entire globe is covered in WiFi (which isn't entirely a good thing unless it's free for all to use) radio will still be there to serve everyone else who can't access spotify or internet streams. I think we oughta lean into that aspect of radio for it to remain at least a little bit relevant.

Also, and this is just to be that guy, but I want DAB & DAB+ in America, damnit!
 
Very thoughtful post. Here are my comments:

1- Country. WXTU is Philly's only country outlet. It's been that way for god knows how long. But, many large markets have multiple country stations,

The folks at Audacy know a thing or two about WXTU because they (through CBS Radio) actually owned the station for four years, from 2014 to 2018. And when Entercom bought WBEB, they were required to sell a station to meet FCC ownership rules. Guess which station the chose to sell. So perhaps they know something about the country audience in Philadelphia.

2- Classic alternative. A lesser-known format, but profitable and popular when done right. BUT, it would HAVE to play stuff none of the rockers (MMR, MGK, RFF) play.

A big chunk of RFF's playlist is classic alt. You're asking them to thread a very fine needle, and right now, Audacy is having a terrible time with its alternative stations, especially in markets where they're competing with an iHeart alt. The most obvious is LA, where KYSR is #1 18-49, while Audacy's legendary KROQ is at the bottom. It's not a good time to suggest this format for their home market. Maybe check back in a few years.

3- Pacifica Foundation/ WBAI. Not a ratings machine, but certainly would attract the WHYY/NPR/ Liberal audience.

The problem here is that Pacifica and NPR are non-profit companies, and Audacy is not. While WHYY is doing quite well as a non-commercial outlet, part of its charm is they run no commercials.

4- Bloomberg radio. WDCH in Washington is a Bloomberg affiliate and does modestly well, and would likely attract an audience

And Audacy knows about WDCH because they own it. They tried using that frequency as all-news WNEW, but got killed by WTOP. So they gave up and leased it out to Bloomberg. Technically speaking, KYW and WPHT run Bloomberg programming in Philadelphia. A Bloomberg station would steal audience from those Audacy stations. Probably not a good idea.
 
However, radio remains king in developing countries and poor countries. Because of limited or no internet access, MW/FM/Shortwave radio continues to deliver news and entertainment for free only limited by how far their signal travels. Until the entire globe is covered in WiFi (which isn't entirely a good thing unless it's free for all to use) radio will still be there to serve everyone else who can't access spotify or internet streams. I think we oughta lean into that aspect of radio for it to remain at least a little bit relevant.
I was recently talking to a friend who deals with radio gear in Sub-Saharra Africa, and he mentioned to me how in so many countries people use their cellulars as a wallet and bank through phone company services. As a side effect, they listen to radio on their phones, as they always have them with them.

The same effect is true in much of Latin America. Even the least prosperous have cellulars, and they use them for everything. Terrestrial radio is declining, but just not as fast as in the US.

Rural areas, not so much. But even in Africa the urban population vastly exceeds the rural towns and villages. Nigeria, with 200 million people, is now 55% urban and another 25% in smaller towns and villages that have cellular service.
 
As a side effect, they listen to radio on their phones, as they always have them with them.

This gets back to a bit if mythology I often read on these boards. Posters will talk about this primarily as a programming problem. If OTA radio programming was better, people would throw away their phones, or carry additional devices in order to receive radio. Obviously no one is looking to carry more devices. The phone can serve as a wallet. The phone can serve as key for home and car. The phone serves as camera. The phone companies have cleverly made their devices far more valuable than a transistor radio. A portable radio can't do what a phone can do. But a phone can do everything a radio can do. Except not with an antenna.
 
Very thoughtful post.
Thank you, I try to add some sort of insight:)
You're asking them to thread a very fine needle, and right now, Audacy is having a terrible time with its alternative stations
Yeah that's a good counter point! It's too thin a needle to gamble, I guess.
Pacifica and NPR are non-profit companies, and Audacy is not
I guess I figured Pacifica could buy 96.5, but that's dumb because it's not for sale. I don't know why I even wrote this as an option actually.
They tried using that frequency as all-news WNEW, but got killed by WTOP
I remember those days fondly when I was in Baltimore for the summers. I actually liked WNEW because it had a better signal in Baltimore compared to WTOP which was spotty.
 
A big chunk of RFF's playlist is classic alt. You're asking them to thread a very fine needle, and right now, Audacy is having a terrible time with its alternative stations, especially in markets where they're competing with an iHeart alt. The most obvious is LA, where KYSR is #1 18-49, while Audacy's legendary KROQ is at the bottom. It's not a good time to suggest this format for their home market. Maybe check back in a few years.
I'd argue against a "big" chunk of WRFF's playlist being Classic Alt. They have GREATLY pulled back on the 90s titles in recent years, (especially with the Alt re-branding). Yes, they still play some of the bigger hits (Radiohead, Red Hot Chili Peppers etc.), but the vast majority of their playlist is 2000-Now. (Another argument could be made that songs like "Sugar We're Going Down" and "Mr. Brightside" are Classic Alt now though.)

Yes, something carefully wedged in, similiar to a station like 103.1 the Wave in Salt Lake City COULD work, but with WRFF already billing so little, potentially splitting that already small pool of money could be disasterous.
 
I guess I figured Pacifica could buy 96.5, but that's dumb because it's not for sale. I don't know why I even wrote this as an option actually.

Pacifica can't pay their bills now. They have no money for buying radio stations. There's a whole thread about this on the NY board. They're $3 million in debt, with no idea how they're going to pay that money back.

 
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