Entercom's alternative experiment not a success?

[kp2780]

The “armchair PD” comments are a way to dismissively shut down debate by people living in the radio bubble.

Meanwhile, KROQ adds Glass Animals “Heat Waves” six months late. This armchair PD knew it was a hit before the real PD I guess. Weird.

 

[TheBigA]

The “armchair PD” comments are a way to dismissively shut down debate by people living in the radio bubble.

This thread is 16 pages long. No one has shut down any debate.

 

[tall_guy1]

This thread is 16 pages long. No one has shut down any debate.

Oh, they tried....

 

[tall_guy1]

The one place audacy alternative is working is Sacramento. They registered a 4.0 in the 6+ numbers last month. They also have a more "open" playlist with plenty of currents and not the worn out recurrents like come and go. Maybe the demos are different there or maybe they have a more open musical taste.

 

[davideduardo]

The one place audacy alternative is working is Sacramento. They registered a 4.0 in the 6+ numbers last month. They also have a more "open" playlist with plenty of currents and not the worn out recurrents like come and go. Maybe the demos are different there or maybe they have a more open musical taste.

You have, of course, looked at the 18-34, 18-49 and 25-54 male numbers and analyzed how those contribute to the Audacy cluster spectrum of audience delivery...

 

[kp2780]

You have, of course, looked at the 18-34, 18-49 and 25-54 male numbers and analyzed how those contribute to the Audacy cluster spectrum of audience delivery...

Some variation of this comment appears regularly on this site. Someone comments on 6+ numbers and is told how insignificant they are. While I don’t argue that the demos are more significant, I have noticed an obvious trend of stations that door poorly in the 6+ numbers where there is eventually a format flip. Where I am in Boston, it’s been one station after another that starts dipping below a 2.0 in 6+ that eventually flips formats. The 6+ numbers might not be what ad agencies use but they seem to indicate something for sure.

 

[TheBigA]

The 6+ numbers might not be what ad agencies use but they seem to indicate something for sure.

We've already exhausted the format flip possibilities in this market. Audacy has two project stations in LA. The weakest link appears to be KNOU. My expectation that KNOU is a format holder until sports betting is approved in California. Otherwise, there's no pressing need to flip anything.

 

[davideduardo]

Some variation of this comment appears regularly on this site. Someone comments on 6+ numbers and is told how insignificant they are. While I don’t argue that the demos are more significant, I have noticed an obvious trend of stations that door poorly in the 6+ numbers where there is eventually a format flip. Where I am in Boston, it’s been one station after another that starts dipping below a 2.0 in 6+ that eventually flips formats. The 6+ numbers might not be what ad agencies use but they seem to indicate something for sure.

My response is always the station that for over 30 years has been among the to two or three billers in NYC and which practicaally never over 15th in 12+ numbers (or, worse, 6+ PPM numbers).

Also relevant: look at Hispanic Spanish language stations, often much lower in 12+ or 6+ than in 18-49, their target. That is because Hispanics in the US average about 12 years younger than non-Hispanic whites.

 

[kp2780]

My response is always the station that for over 30 years has been among the to two or three billers in NYC and which practicaally never over 15th in 12+ numbers (or, worse, 6+ PPM numbers).

Also relevant: look at Hispanic Spanish language stations, often much lower in 12+ or 6+ than in 18-49, their target. That is because Hispanics in the US average about 12 years younger than non-Hispanic whites.

If we looked at the all of the format flips over the past ten years in the top 10 markets, what do you think their 6+ numbers would look like prior to the flip? Sure there are outliers as you have mentioned, but the majority of the time a sinking 6+ number and being at the bottom of a market’s 6+ numbers doesn’t seem to bode well for the future of a station.

 

[TheBigA]

Sure there are outliers as you have mentioned, but the majority of the time a sinking 6+ number and being at the bottom of a market’s 6+ numbers doesn’t seem to bode well for the future of a station.

However, looking at the latest 6+ numbers, KROQ is not sinking. It's nowhere near the bottom of LA's 6+ numbers. Its actually near the middle.

 

[macattack]

However, looking at the latest 6+ numbers, KROQ is not sinking. It's nowhere near the bottom of LA's 6+ numbers. Its actually near the middle.

I would say it's slightly worse than in the middle but they have ticked up a bit from the complete bottoming out that happened last year.

The problem for KROQ is that KYSR is shooting higher than they are with a quite different playlist to boot. Their rotations don't contain a ton of shared artists.

 

[kp2780]

However, looking at the latest 6+ numbers, KROQ is not sinking. It's nowhere near the bottom of LA's 6+ numbers. Its actually near the middle.

Yes, understood. To be clear, I am talking about the almost daily posts on this site from radio pros talking about how 6+ ratings don’t matter, “the beauty queen numbers” as they are often referred to. My point is that they indicate something when just in the market I live in, the bottom dwellers are the stations that eventually flip.

 

[TheBigA]

The problem for KROQ is that KYSR is shooting higher than they are with a quite different playlist to boot. Their rotations don't contain a ton of shared artists.

Their approach to the format is different. It would serve no purpose having two stations in LA calling themselves "alternative," and playing the same list

 

[TheBigA]

My point is that they indicate something when just in the market I live in, the bottom dwellers are the stations that eventually flip.

And yet there are a bunch of stations in LA in the bottom half of the ratings who remain in the exact same format year after year.

 

[tall_guy1]

Some variation of this comment appears regularly on this site. Someone comments on 6+ numbers and is told how insignificant they are. While I don’t argue that the demos are more significant, I have noticed an obvious trend of stations that door poorly in the 6+ numbers where there is eventually a format flip. Where I am in Boston, it’s been one station after another that starts dipping below a 2.0 in 6+ that eventually flips formats. The 6+ numbers might not be what ad agencies use but they seem to indicate something for sure.

I've noticed that trend as well in Kansas City. Usually the 6+ numbers here are indicitive of how they are doing around the board, and in key demos; if a station is doing well or relatively well in 6+, then usually the demos line up in their favor. I've seen old articles about 96.5 the Buzz, and their numbers in key demos used to be very good during drive times and mornings (around 2013 or so, during their heyday). From the looks of things, that's not the case anymore for most of these stations. Unless the Sacramento station is somehow doing well in groups outside their target (which I doubt), I see that as a success. Markets that buck the trend tend to be larger markets like Chicago, which have stations that have been around forever and have low 6+ numbers, but cater well to a specific group.

 

[Kelly A]

Usually the 6+ numbers here are indicitive of how they are doing around the board, and in key demos; if a station is doing well or relatively well in 6+, then usually the demos line up in their favor.

Your assumptions are completely wrong. In larger markets where the total numbers are diluted across multiple stations, an individual station can do well (profitable) in their target demo, but show up hash marks in 6+. This is especially true if the station's target demo is narrower, like; 18-34M. Not that you'll believe it, but an individual station within a group just part of the overall group aggregate demo portfolio. You can't assume a single station 6+ numbers within a ownership group is struggling, because unless the station consistently loses money and is responsible for a narrow demo within the group, programmers would rather fix or upgrade the house than tear it down.

 

[kp2780]

Your assumptions are completely wrong. In larger markets where the total numbers are diluted across multiple stations, an individual station can do well (profitable) in their target demo, but show up hash marks in 6+. This is especially true if the station's target demo is narrower, like; 18-34M. Not that you'll believe it, but an individual station within a group just part of the overall group aggregate demo portfolio. You can't assume a single station 6+ numbers within a ownership group is struggling, because unless the station consistently loses money and is responsible for a narrow demo within the group, programmers would rather fix or upgrade the house than tear it down.

The assumption is not “completely wrong.” The view that 6+ numbers “usually” indicate how a station is doing within its demo is not some crazy viewpoint that is completely wrong even if you can find some cherry picked examples that prove otherwise. I noticed that my question about the 6+ ratings of the stations in top 10 markets that have flipped formats was met with crickets by the radio pros who seem to always know more than everyone else. I wonder why?

 

[Kelly A]

The assumption is not “completely wrong.” The view that 6+ numbers “usually” indicate how a station is doing within its demo is not some crazy viewpoint that is completely wrong even if you can find some cherry picked examples that prove otherwise.

I guess these days where up is down and day can be deemed night, you're right. In some alternative universe-thinking, the assumption could be valid.

I noticed that my question about the 6+ ratings of the stations in top 10 markets that have flipped formats was met with crickets by the radio pros who seem to always know more than everyone else. I wonder why?

I hadn't seen your question, as I don't always check every category. Can't speak for other professionals on the forum, but just speculating, there may not be anyone around here with data at hand that could speak directly to your specific market question. Even then, we're all cognizant to the requirements of not quoting or using proprietary (paid-for) market data on some free Internet forum.

 

[TheBigA]

I noticed that my question about the 6+ ratings of the stations in top 10 markets that have flipped formats was met with crickets by the radio pros who seem to always know more than everyone else. I wonder why?

I addressed it directly and you blew it off. I guess it didn't fit your narrative.

 

[davideduardo]

I've noticed that trend as well in Kansas City. Usually the 6+ numbers here are indicitive of how they are doing around the board, and in key demos; if a station is doing well or relatively well in 6+, then usually the demos line up in their favor. I've seen old articles about 96.5 the Buzz, and their numbers in key demos used to be very good during drive times and mornings (around 2013 or so, during their heyday). From the looks of things, that's not the case anymore for most of these stations. Unless the Sacramento station is somehow doing well in groups outside their target (which I doubt), I see that as a success. Markets that buck the trend tend to be larger markets like Chicago, which have stations that have been around forever and have low 6+ numbers, but cater well to a specific group.

In a three book average, that station is 3rd in 25-34, but they fall to 10th in 18-49 and 7th in 18-34.
In 18-34 men, they are 4th and in 25-34 men, 1st. With KQRC and KCSP, they have a huge male combo that must get huge combined buys. The other two male stations make up half of the 4 top billers in KC.