Buffalo-Niagara Falls Persons 12+ April 2021

[TheBigA]

This station is not built to win. It's built to be an also-ran and nothing more.

You're looking at this as though they only own one radio station. They own several, and two are among the highest billers in town. That gives them flexibility to change the approach with another frequency. You're not going to have all of your stations in the Top 5. But they have two. That's better than having none.

And Market 68 ain't much worse than Market 59. In fact they have a lot in common. Don't get snobby.

 

[tbolt909]

And Market 68 ain't much worse than Market 59. In fact they have a lot in common. Don't get snobby.

That much is true. Isn't Buffalo the biggest market for Townsquare? As I recall, CBS sold it because they wanted out of medium and/or declining markets. That was long before they got all the way out of Radio with the Entercom merge.

If going digital is the End Game, then continuing to operate the WBUF 92.9 signal is pointless and expensive. They can shut it off and run sweepers on WYRK or WBLK promoting their "excellent National content"...

 

[TheBigA]

If going digital is the End Game, then continuing to operate the WBUF 92.9 signal is pointless and expensive. They can shut it off and run sweepers on WYRK or WBLK promoting their "excellent National content"...

Their digital package is based on formats, just like iHeart. So they need a signal for rock, country, and urban.

 

[davideduardo]

As I recall, CBS sold it because they wanted out of medium and/or declining markets. T

Yet they kept Palm Springs and the High Desert stations. Much, much smaller

 

[SirRoxalot]

Yet they kept Palm Springs and the High Desert stations. Much, much smaller

Much smaller, but much more attractive for upper-echelon management to visit. Also, the dollar/cost ratio may have been higher. That's a pretty affluent market when the tourists are in town.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

Buffalo is different than market #68 in that the HW&FB morning show doesn't seem to be taking hold in market #59.

As to the cost of Jack FM, IIRC, Dave Eduardo some time ago posted in a previous thread that in markets smaller than top 50, the rights fees to Jack are minimal. Maybe even barter. Perhaps he can clarify.

Much smaller, but much more attractive for upper-echelon management to visit. Also, the dollar/cost ratio may have been higher. That's a pretty affluent market when the tourists are in town.

Tourists? Heck, residents! In June, July and August, you can fire a cannon down Palm Canyon Drive and not worry about injuring a person.

 

[TheBigA]

Buffalo is different than market #68 in that the HW&FB morning show doesn't seem to be taking hold in market #59.

Launching any new talk show takes time. I've read where some people feel a new talk show should be given at least 2 years to build an audience. So we'll see. They've had more than 10 years in Grand Rapids.

 

[MarkW]

You're wrong, BigA, about me looking at this as only one radio station. I said 92.9 was built to be an also-ran and nothing more. The reason for that strategy is the precise reasons you actually stated.

 

[TheBigA]

I said 92.9 was built to be an also-ran and nothing more. The reason for that strategy is the precise reasons you actually stated.

WBUF didn't get great ratings as Jack. It did what it did, and that was fine under the circumstances. It operated that way for 15 years under 3 different owners. As I've said, they are just a few months into this format. You've reached your conclusions based on that. I have no reason to believe that this station was "built to be an also ran." People buy stock at a low price, and hope that stock appreciates in value. TS has taken a combination of music and talent that works in other markets and applied it here. They can afford to make that investment because of the other stations in the cluster. Perhaps it will appreciate in value, or not. But it will take time.

 

[davideduardo]

Buffalo is different than market #68 in that the HW&FB morning show doesn't seem to be taking hold in market #59.

As to the cost of Jack FM, IIRC, Dave Eduardo some time ago posted in a previous thread that in markets smaller than top 50, the rights fees to Jack are minimal. Maybe even barter. Perhaps he can clarify.

Not "minimal" but relatively low... sort of like hiring a PD who works from somewhere else. I don't think that the Jack people do barter, but will check with one of their people who is a friend.

But the cost is going to be reasonable in those smaller markets, and they system is turnkey to a great extent... it is paint by numbers.

Tourists? Heck, residents! In June, July and August, you can fire a cannon down Palm Canyon Drive and not worry about injuring a person.

That used to be true, but this is becoming a year-round place, even for tourism. And they just announced a $300 million arena for shows and the farm team of the new Seattle hockey team as well as conventions and other sporting events.

The Coachella Valley is approaching a half-million permanent residents. There is an estimate that 50,000 to 60,000 LA metro and Inland Empire residents moved permanently to the Valley last year to get away from the pandemic and the social unrest and increasing violence in LA.

All that happens in the Summer is that patterns change. We go out early in the morning, the golfers get tee times at 5:30 AM and then do indoors things till evening, when bars and restaurants open: most "good" ones don't open at noon in the summer.

 

[TheBigA]

But the cost is going to be reasonable in those smaller markets, and they system is turnkey to a great extent... it is paint by numbers.

It can be turnkey, or it can be customizable, depending on the station. I know a few stations who make a lot of input to the music and write their own liners. Some Jack stations even hire local talent. My sense is that WBUF took the turnkey option.

 

[davideduardo]

Much smaller, but much more attractive for upper-echelon management to visit. Also, the dollar/cost ratio may have been higher. That's a pretty affluent market when the tourists are in town.

That does not explain the High Desert which is pretty dreadful in all kinds of ways 365 days a year (366 in Leap Years). I was told by local broadcasters that they were supervised by Riverside/San Berdoo, and both were very profitable. The changes in CBS and the sale killed the station's profitability so I don't know why they remain.

And, actually, Palm Springs under-bills. Market 132, revenue rank 141. It is a horrible radio market. 32 commercial stations, not including translators using HD-2 rebroadcasts, and there is projected to be $11 million in annual market revenue.

Victor Valley has 33 commercial stations and a load of translators and just over $7 million in total revenue. It is 114 in population and 178 in market revenue rankings.

Both markets are now over 50% Hispanic.

 

[davideduardo]

It can be turnkey, or it can be customizable, depending on the station. I know a few stations who make a lot of input to the music and write their own liners. Some Jack stations even hire local talent. My sense is that WBUF took the turnkey option.

It's custom in markets 50 and up, turnkey in those under 50th. I never asked if there were exceptions, but I definitely don't think in #50 and larger markets they will do turnkey.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

WBUF didn't get great ratings as Jack. It did what it did, and that was fine under the circumstances. It operated that way for 15 years under 3 different owners.

Jack-FM turned in some very impressive ratings in the early years of its 15 year run. It was more than "fine under the circumstances," especially in the first five to seven years, when it competed on equal footing with 97 Rock and WHTT. A few sources familiar with the operation say that Jack-FM was diligently tended to by each of the three owners, even to the format's very end. To the best of their knowledge Jack-FM generated consistent revenue for the cluster. The Jack-FM format in Buffalo was targeted 45-64. Its strength was Men 40+, with a modest tag-along contingent of Women, but never a threat to female-based WJYE/Mix/Breeze or WYRK, certainly no threat to WBLK. The Jack-FM brand frequently turned up as "familiar" in market research, as even P3 listeners "knew of the station." And it's said that a majority of those surveyed were "familiar" with the brand and 'Playing What We Want.'"

As an aside, one wonders if Enterc... er, Audacy might give consideration to re-establishing Jack-FM on the 107.7 signal. Not likely, but this board is built on speculation. Even on 107.7's flacid signal, the Jack-FM format would arguably do better than what's on 107.7 these days. Then again, there will be those who justifiably maintain that the 107.7 signal suits but one format, that being Country.

 

[TheBigA]

As an aside, one wonders if Enterc... er, Audacy might give consideration to re-establishing Jack-FM on the 107.7 signal.

My take is that Audacy has passed the point where it feels the need to turn to an outside company for radio formats or content. That's why they're doing their own syndication, and using their own internal resources. It's not just to save money, but also the view that they own the resources, talent, programmers, and management that can create competitive content internally. iHeart has been doing that for years, so has Cumulus, and now Audacy and Townsquare are doing it as well. If you work at one of those companies, it's probably a very empowering feeling. "We don't need outside consultants or outside syndicators. We can do it ourselves."

The reason I said what I did was that you can look back to this board before the format change and read comments from a lot of posters including Buddy who would express shock at WBUF's ratings given the strength of its signal. Of course, now they've gone even lower, but that's because the new format is such a change from what had been there. But it fits better with what the company is doing in other markets, and also fits with the multi-platform marketing that is driving their overall company growth. So what that means that if they're going to do a format that relies on some kind of syndication, they will do it themselves and own it. What that means is that when Steve Harvey retires, his successor will come from within, not iHeart.

 

[tbolt909]

Jack-FM turned in some very impressive ratings in the early years of its 15 year run. It was more than "fine under the circumstances," especially in the first five to seven years, when it competed on equal footing with 97 Rock and WHTT. A few sources familiar with the operation say that Jack-FM was diligently tended to by each of the three owners, even to the format's very end. To the best of their knowledge Jack-FM generated consistent revenue for the cluster. The Jack-FM format in Buffalo was targeted 45-64. Its strength was Men 40+, with a modest tag-along contingent of Women, but never a threat to female-based WJYE/Mix/Breeze or WYRK, certainly no threat to WBLK. The Jack-FM brand frequently turned up as "familiar" in market research, as even P3 listeners "knew of the station." And it's said that a majority of those surveyed were "familiar" with the brand and 'Playing What We Want.'"

As an aside, one wonders if Enterc... er, Audacy might give consideration to re-establishing Jack-FM on the 107.7 signal. Not likely, but this board is built on speculation. Even on 107.7's flacid signal, the Jack-FM format would arguably do better than what's on 107.7 these days. Then again, there will be those who justifiably maintain that the 107.7 signal suits but one format, that being Country.

If JACK was still generating good revenue, then the format change is even more puzzling. It was cheap to operate. The local revenue & ratings must be insignificant or irrelevant in the big picture. Buffalo is just a road apple on the path to Digital Dominance. Corporate is never wrong about programming decisions. Remember the great WBEN FM simulcast?

Not sure how you determined that Country is the only format works on 107.7. That's simply not true and the ratings history shows that. It's moot now because Corporate and David Field are locked into the Alternative brand...

 

[MarkW]

As I've said, they are just a few months into this format. You've reached your conclusions based on that.

I bet zero local research was done as to the imported morning show, and the playlist screams "this station was built to shave a few shares away from 97Rock and provide a platform for our national content in our biggest market."

The Grand Rapids morning show bombed in Cincinnati, bombed in Toledo and is currently bombing in Albany, where it still airs. As an aside, Q105.7 in general is a total mess in Albany. A year from now, I suspect we'll also be able to say the show also bombed in Buffalo (but it'll probably still continue to air).

Putting suboptimal programming on the air for synergistic purposes is not good with regard to radio's long-term future. Eventually, more & more people will just tune out for good. As I've written in the past, I think some (not necessarily all) corporate radio execs would love to compartmentalize AQH listeners into as few signals as possible so as to justify the proliferation of bargain basement programming on the other signals. Fewer account executives would be needed under such an approach, too.

 

[tbolt909]

I bet zero local research was done as to the imported morning show, and the playlist screams "this station was built to shave a few shares away from 97Rock and provide a platform for our national content in our biggest market."

That sounds like the Corporate Talking Points in a Zoom meeting. It hasn't worked thus far. The ratings for WBUF have tanked lower than than the meager JACK ratings.

I agree with you. The evidence indicates that most people are apathetic about current Radio product. The 97 Rock morning debacle has had no impact. People who are still listening to that station are comatose and never noticed a change. WBUF offers nothing different and no one cares. It's another case of Corporate being in a Time Warp. The "New" WBUF format reeks of 1993. Old Hat...

 

[Rusty Bridges]

Q105.7 in general is a total mess in Albany

Sidebar: Two Questions.

First: What led to Q105.7's undoing? (Without turning this into the Albany board, which I notice has very little traffic these days.)

Second: Wondering if stations/owners that use the "Q" moniker are at all concerned with the ramifications of the letter as it relates to politics. No, this is not an attempt to take this thread into a political discussion. Buffalo has had two "Q" stations in the past, WGRQ (the Super Q Top 40, then QFM97 AOR prior to it becoming 97 Rock) and WMJQ (as a CHR then AC as Magic 102 point 5.) There is no longer a "Q" moniker in Buffalo. "Q" has been a powerful branding device, especially as a Top 40 brand going back to the days of Buzz Bennett and stations like KCBQ San Diego, 13Q Pittsburgh, KSLQ St. Louis and Q102 Cincinnati. The question then is, do listeners associate "Q" at all with politics, or is it still viable and "clean," just the name of a radio station. Do owners worry about their "Q" being misconstrued? Again, no politics. This is more about marketing (that may be influenced by politics.)

 

[TheBigA]

Putting suboptimal programming on the air for synergistic purposes is not good with regard to radio's long-term future. Eventually, more & more people will just tune out for good.

Huh? As if there aren't other choices on the FM band? What you're saying makes the case for a federal Minister Of Radio, who would approve all format changes that benefit the listeners rather than owners. We don't have that kind of system in this country.