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May '21 ratings

Nielsen is politically agnostic.
Not in Buddy's view. He pays for Nielsen and guaranteed a 5 share for WECK. It still isn't close to that, so he cries fraud.
Sound familiar? He thinks he's a victim of discrimination. Why? Because younger demos don't listen to Oldies?

No one is forced to subscribe to Nielsen. Stations are free to build relationships with clients on their own terms...
 
No one is forced to subscribe to Nielsen. Stations are free to build relationships with clients on their own terms...
But many "clients", both agencies and direct accounts with an ad department, buy based on metrics. No book, no sale.
 
This diary system is really outdated, and yes, that’s it, it’s all about who gets these diaries. Just as an example, based on raw quarter hours, WECK had a 3.4 and HTT had a 4.9 12 plus. But because of “ weighting” WECK had a 3.0. In quarter hours, WECK beat EDG, BUF, NED, LKK, and came about a half share from Star in quarter hours in May, 12 plus.
Weighting is done, but upwards and downwards, to adjust for cells (age, gender, ethnicity, income, education, location) that are under or over sampled. It's normal in all random probability samples because they are never completely, 100% proportional.
WKSE has a cume of 177,000. Does anyone really believe that? I don’t know a young person who even listens to the radio , yet Kiss was the top cume station. Seriously? Not only have young people abandoned radio, but they certainly would not take time to fill out a silly booklet and send it back within a week.
Actually, if you look in PPM markets, young people do not listen as much, but they listen. The youngest usable demo is 18-34 and much of that demo is made up of adults with jobs, families, responsibilities and less time than a teen for music exploration. They use radio as well as paid services that are pre-programmed because they are easier to use and less time consuming.
I will also tell you this, the folks at Nielson (sic) do not even know how to explain this outdated diary methodology. I ask them all the time. They have no detailed answers.
It's really easy to explain. You recruit a new sample for each week. As weeks progress, you adjust the recruit for more or less of certain cells. You get the books back and tabulate them.
And now the latest. If a station does not pay for Nielson (sic), they are nowhere in the book. Almost as they don’t exist. Not even for agencies. They simply do not exist to Neilson (sic). In Rochester I speak with Andre Langston, the owner of DKX, quite a bit. I am bewildered to why they did not appear.
Too many stations were borrowing data. Nielsen wishes to make a profit. However, they should enforce compliance, not produce a product with missing stations.
How is that a correct representation of the market? However, liberals get their way again….if a radio station is woman owned, or minority owned, and they DO NOT pay for Nielson (sic), those stations get in the book. Without paying. How the hell is that fair to someone like me, or other independent owners who are simply white men? I’m actually thinking about suing Neilson for discrimination against me.
Where is there evidence of this? Recent station listings in the online trades show them to again be listing all stations.

Let's not get partisan politics involved in radio ratings.
 
The 97 Rock incident happened in 2021. Not 1961. Shouldn't they have been on your "better road" by now? The humour you mention may have been mainstream or acceptable back then, but it was still wrong.
It was not perceived as wrong then, just as slavery prior to the most recent modern era was not perceived as wrong in most of the world.

As we, hopefully, progress, our standards improve and things that were acceptable and even encouraged "back then" are later rejected.

But people who grew up and were educated by our system and our parents in a different era don't have "on-off" switches we can marvelously and miraculously flip to the "off" position on some attitudes. Please refer to the saying, "you can't teach old dogs new tricks".
In this very thread, Buddy Shula is whining about being a "persecuted White Guy". What a bunch of crap. I do not wish to repost his comments, but it's right here above. He's crying because his Oldies format can't get to a 5 share and it's not fair...
Agreed. Ratings are not a sociological problem.
 
Nielsen is politically agnostic. BTW, does WUFO-AM still radiate from the WECK-AM tower on Genesee Street? Ol' Gordon Brown was quite astute back in the 50s when he applied for the construction permit for the studio-transmitter location, just a few blocks across the Buffalo city line ... although the airport literally "just down the road" mandated the stick's limited height.

Yes to WUFO.

As for their FM translator, it's on top of One Seneca Tower downtown; WBXZ-LD, a low-power TV station, also has its transmitter at One Seneca-as does WECK's 102.9 FM translator and the 93.3 translator for WZXV(from Rochester).
 
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Weighting is done, but upwards and downwards, to adjust for cells (age, gender, ethnicity, income, education, location) that are under or over sampled. It's normal in all random probability samples because they are never completely, 100% proportional.

Actually, if you look in PPM markets, young people do not listen as much, but they listen. The youngest usable demo is 18-34 and much of that demo is made up of adults with jobs, families, responsibilities and less time than a teen for music exploration. They use radio as well as paid services that are pre-programmed because they are easier to use and less time consuming.

It's really easy to explain. You recruit a new sample for each week. As weeks progress, you adjust the recruit for more or less of certain cells. You get the books back and tabulate them.

Too many stations were borrowing data. Nielsen wishes to make a profit. However, they should enforce compliance, not produce a product with missing stations.

Where is there evidence of this? Recent station listings in the online trades show them to again be listing all stations.

Let's not get partisan politics involved in radio ratings.
This has everything to do with politics. I spoke to Dave Donovan the other day and he agreed. Research or call Neilson and ask if I am right. Stations will be pulled out of ratings to everyone and agencies if we do not subscribe. Not included in the rule is minority, women, and public broadcasting. It’s a new Nielson law
 
Not included in the rule is minority, women, and public broadcasting. It’s a new Nielson law

And yet a number of public broadcasters were not included in the book a few months ago, including WABE in Atlanta. Seems to me WBFO was excluded a few months back.
 
And yet a number of public broadcasters were not included in the book a few months ago, including WABE in Atlanta. Seems to me WBFO was excluded a few months back.
I am not sure, but I spoke to Nielsen because I could not believe what I was hearing, and they confirmed it. If a radio station (Called "Subscriber-First) does NOT pay to subscribe to the ratings, not only will the station show up in the rankings, but it will show up nowhere, like ad agencies. However, if the station is owned by a female, or minority or public broadcasting, that rule does not apply.

Seems like a little discrimination to me.

Listen, I just know what they told me.

I literally added up the last three months quarter hours of listening and the addition resulted in WECK having a 3.0 share, while the EDGE had a 2.9 share.

Lo and behold, the book comes out and WECK has a 2.6 and Edge has a 3.3.

There is something messed up about this. 2 months ago WECK had a 70,000 weekly cume. This month it has a 57,000 cume.

Nothing has changed . We are doing the same thing we did 2 months ago, in fact, I have added more Television advertising.

Perhaps I just do not understand the methodology, and I need to learn it. The way these books wobble is like the stock market.

My Nielson agreement is up in Oct, so we'll see what happens.
 
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I am not sure, but I spoke to Nielsen because I could not believe what I was hearing, and they confirmed it. If a radio station (Called "Subscriber-First) does NOT pay to subscribe to the ratings, not only will the station show up in the rankings, but it will show up nowhere, like ad agencies. However, if the station is owned by a female, or minority or public broadcasting, that rule does not apply.

Seems like a little discrimination to me.
The bottom line is that non subscribers are not supposed to be using ratings in the selling process. Sales reps of a station that doesn't pay Nielsen probably violate that anyway. Does Nielsen police that? Why don't you just cancel your subscription? There's no advantage in just being listed in the (6+)or 12+ numbers. The majority of the stations you are complaining about likely have very low ratings. Public Broadcasting is a different business model anyway...
 
Seems like a little discrimination to me. Listen, I just know what they told me.

Why would "they" tell this only to you and no one else? You seem to be the only one saying this. There is nothing written about this policy. Nothing in Nielsen's rules. And no other owners are complaining. No other analysts, such as Charlie Sislin. Just you. I did a very intense search for confirmation of what you're writing, and I saw nothing. It seems suspect to me. Especially when I see exceptions.
 
Why would "they" tell this only to you and no one else? You seem to be the only one saying this. There is nothing written about this policy. Nothing in Nielsen's rules. And no other owners are complaining. No other analysts, such as Charlie Sislin. Just you. I did a very intense search for confirmation of what you're writing, and I saw nothing. It seems suspect to me. Especially when I see exceptions.
Perhaps because it is under "Alternative Facts"...
 
Why would "they" tell this only to you and no one else? You seem to be the only one saying this. There is nothing written about this policy. Nothing in Nielsen's rules. And no other owners are complaining. No other analysts, such as Charlie Sislin. Just you. I did a very intense search for confirmation of what you're writing, and I saw nothing. It seems suspect to me. Especially when I see exceptions.
I think this is referring to the so-called "Minority Exemption" of "Subscriber First"(??).
 
I see no such thing.
Not sure where you're looking... ... ...

Following the fifth paragraph here -> Non-Subscribers To Vanish From Ad Buying Systems Under New Nielsen Policy.

"Carve-Out For Minorities And Non-Comms

The company has made an exception to the policy for minority- and female-owned broadcasters and non-commercial broadcasters. Broadcast companies that are Black-, Hispanic-, Asian- or female-owned or are a 501-C3 will continue to show up in the data, regardless of subscriber status."


Another reference after the 16th paragraph here -> Nielsen ‘Subscriber First’ Effort Has Radio Talking | Radio & Television Business Report

Aaaaand, there's more -> Nielsen Makes Policy Change To Help Small Minority-Owned Broadcasters.

"Nielsen Makes Policy Change To Help Small Minority-Owned Broadcasters."

Still more -> Nielsen Bulletin Board | Research Director, Inc.

"Nielsen is making a couple exceptions and will, regardless of subscriber status, include any minority-owned station (Black, Hispanic, Asian, and Female) with annual revenue of less than $7 million (per market at the cluster level), as well as non-profit stations either publicly owned or holding 501(c)(3) tax status."



I admittedly did not do an "intense search," but those comments certainly seem to approximate what the claim is/was (see post #15 of this thread/topic).
 
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I admittedly did not do an "intense search," but those comments certainly seem to approximate what the claim is/was (see post #15 of this thread/topic).

You're right...I missed it. But the real exclusion is a bit more detailed than the one presented in post #15. It's not public radio, but all non-profit, which would include religious radio.
 
"""While non-subscribers won’t be included in Strata and the other major buying platforms – making them invisible to the majority of ad agencies – Nielsen says it will continue to include their numbers in respondent level data, the granular data that Nielsen says “almost all” of its broadcast customers subscribe to. That means subscribing stations will still have the ability to monitor how their non-subscribing competitors are performing.""" - Inside Radio, Re: Nielsen policy, published July 26, 2021


"""The company (Nielsen) has made an exception to the policy for minority- and female-owned broadcasters and non-commercial broadcasters. Broadcast companies that are Black-, Hispanic-, Asian- or female-owned or are a 501-C3 will continue to show up in the data, regardless of subscriber status."""
- Inside Radio, Re: Nielsen policy, published July 26, 2021


It appears there can be some argument as to the fairness of "minority-owned" businesses (radio stations) appearing in the data. But from my reading, the Nielsen policy will not include these free-riders (Nielsen's term) in Strata and the ad-buying platforms that are used by (agencies) advertisers to make their buys.

As such, the free-riders will be able to get a glimpse of how they've performed, but as has been the policy for years with Arbitron and Nielsen, non-subscribing stations will not be able to use the (raw) data to influence (potential) clients. The "secret sauce," data that is compiled and provided to advertisers, agencies and radio stations to influence, guide and base advertising buys, will not be provided to free-riders.

In other words: "No soup for you!"

To me, Nielsen's position appears not so much discriminatory as it appears lacking in fairness and to some degree, because subscribing stations pay a considerable sum for Nielsen's services and information, lacking in faithfulness to those stations and owners who pay for Nielsen's services.

As has been the case, recourse lies with Nielsen taking these free riders to court. In past instances, courts have ruled in favor of Arbitron and Nielsen, and the penalties have been substantial, usually a mandate for free riders to pay up/sign up and pay court fees and a nominal penalty to Arbitron/Nielsen.

That duly noted, it most certainly does not appear to be "political."

And as a literary observation, it's amusing to some degree that the Nielsen spokesman used the term "free riders," when in fact, the actual colloquial or idiomatic expression known to every person over the age of seven is actually "free loaders."
 
You're right...I missed it. But the real exclusion is a bit more detailed than the one presented in post #15. It's not public radio, but all non-profit, which would include religious radio.
For clarity sake... That wasn't intended to be a snarky shot (though as I read it back... gulp... it could be taken that way). Just pointing out that I'm hardly an expert in ratings nonsense and the inner workings of how they are perceived... and hadn't done any research beyond some superficial "Googling".

My casual thought is that - by definition - an "exclusion" is discriminatory... though it might be deemed the lesser of the evils. Surely, it creates - again, by definition - an uneven playing field and a selective entry barrier.
 
My casual thought is that - by definition - an "exclusion" is discriminatory... though it might be deemed the lesser of the evils. Surely, it creates - again, by definition - an uneven playing field and a selective entry barrier.

Isn't that what the FCC is trying to do with its various minority ownership rules and programs? Going back 30 years?

Or what Congress did to increase diversity in media ownership?


The fact that this policy excludes all nonprofits brings the issue of why is there such a thing as a non-profit?

If you get a senior citizen's discount at the Taco Bell, is that discriminatory or just being nice?

We can go on for days about this.
 
Not in Buddy's view. He pays for Nielsen and guaranteed a 5 share for WECK. It still isn't close to that, so he cries fraud.
Sound familiar? He thinks he's a victim of discrimination. Why? Because younger demos don't listen to Oldies?

No one is forced to subscribe to Nielsen. Stations are free to build relationships with clients on their own terms...
3.8 share is pretty close to a 5 . When your done with your shift at Walmart , talk to me.. You may learn something
 
3.8 share is pretty close to a 5 . When your done with your shift at Walmart , talk to me.. You may learn something
Notwithstanding 'margins-of-error' ('cuz they can go either + or -) is - in the radio ratings game/environment - ~75% of the commitment/expectation generally considered "pretty close"?
 
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