Ethnic radio: how do listeners define themselves.

[davideduardo]

An interesting poll from Gallup shows (among other things) that only 4% of Hispanics use "Latinx".

No Preferred Racial Term Among Most Black, Hispanic Adults

Most Black and Hispanic Americans do not have a preference when asked which term they would rather people use to describe their racial group.

news.gallup.com

As radio strives to use the proper terms, it is interesting to see how members of the two largest ethnic groups in the US define themselves.

 

[kevtronics]

I find it odd how the term "Latinx" seems to be quickly gaining in popularity in English media, despite being ungrammatical and unpronounceable, and rarely being used by actual Latino/Latina people. Are any other Spanish words getting the gender-neutral "-x" ending?

 

[Marcos_C]

Are any other Spanish words getting the gender-neutral "-x" ending?

There's Filipinx, a gender-neutral version of the word Filipino.

For the record, I am a Latino who opposes the use of gender-neutral denonyms that end with the letter X.

 

[kevtronics]

Also it's interesting how Black and African American are equally split in the poll, even though almost the entire mainstream media very quickly switched to exclusively using the term Black, with a capital B, in the past year.

 

[TheBigA]

It would be interesting to see if the responses differed based on the age of the respondent.

Otherwise, the poll mirrors my anecdotal experience.

 

[davideduardo]

It would be interesting to see if the responses differed based on the age of the respondent.

Otherwise, the poll mirrors my anecdotal experience.

And among Hispanics, I have not found anyone who uses "Latinx" conversationally. Those few I have heard, read or seen using the term are non-Hispanics who are perhaps overly self-conscious about being 100% woke in everything they say.

 

[davideduardo]

I find it odd how the term "Latinx" seems to be quickly gaining in popularity in English media, despite being ungrammatical and unpronounceable, and rarely being used by actual Latino/Latina people. Are any other Spanish words getting the gender-neutral "-x" ending?

Not in my experience. And, outside the US, that terminology is seen as a topic of ridicule. People who are proud of their language seem to reject it rather vocally as a "gringo construct" that is being imposed on them.

 

[Kelly A]

And among Hispanics, I have not found anyone who uses "Latinx" conversationally.

I have where I work. Among our English language network, we have a large Spanish language network. It seems like you consider yourself an expert on all things Spanish-language, but trust me, this group mainly made up of Millennial's, is really touchy about how people of their heritage are presented. They've made it clear in meetings, that Latinx is the proper identification.

Those few I have heard, read or seen using the term are non-Hispanics who are perhaps overly self-conscious about being 100% woke in everything they say.

Maybe you need to spend more time with a different age bracket, other than your immediate family. I suspect things have changed. Part of the interest in Latinx, is the melding of LGBTIQ members in the mix.

 

[TheBigA]

Part of the interest in Latinx, is the melding of LGBTIQ members in the mix.

I agree...the ones who use the "x" were the ones who previously used "Latina" or Latino." Which was (for me) a small group.

 

[TheBigA]

Just saw this on a local board. LatinX is also a radio format:

José Villafañe Brings ‘Latinx’ Vision To North Boston | Radio & Television Business Report

He's been a President at Entravision Communications, where he had a hand in launching the company's national radio arm. He's also spent time at the now-defunct Radio Unica and at Univision. Today, José Villafañe is both the CEO of Hispanic media rep firm MNA Sales, and national Hispanic radio...

www.rbr.com

 

[macattack]

I have where I work. Among our English language network, we have a large Spanish language network. It seems like you consider yourself an expert on all things Spanish-language, but trust me, this group mainly made up of Millennial's, is really touchy about how people of their heritage are presented. They've made it clear in meetings, that Latinx is the proper identification.

Maybe you need to spend more time with a different age bracket, other than your immediate family. I suspect things have changed. Part of the interest in Latinx, is the melding of LGBTIQ members in the mix.

Nothing like a woke white woman to tell a Hispanic man who speaks fluent Spanish and programmed Spanish-language radio stations the right way to describe himself.

 

[Kelly A]

Nothing like a woke white woman

Are you talking about me? How do you know I'm a white woman? Looks like you could use some social sensitivity training 'Mr; Woke'.

to tell a Hispanic man who speaks fluent Spanish and programmed Spanish-language radio stations the right way to describe himself.

How do you know David is a "Hispanic" man?
Clearly you don't know the right way to describe either of us.

 

[davideduardo]

I have where I work. Among our English language network, we have a large Spanish language network. It seems like you consider yourself an expert on all things Spanish-language, but trust me, this group mainly made up of Millennial's, is really touchy about how people of their heritage are presented. They've made it clear in meetings, that Latinx is the proper identification.

I'm making an assumption that the group is in a highly politicized location in the DC area. That attitude there does not surprise me. There, it is likely a badge of wokeness. And the kind of wokeness that occurs mostly with English dominant Hispanics, I suppose. I admit to not dealing with many Hispanics who don't speak, predominantly, Spanish.

I have Millennial grandkids. They find "Latinx" laughable. I'm sure there are pockets of highly assimilated Hispanics that prefer the term... on the other hand, you can't even say it in Spanish. Same goes for Millennials with whom I work or friends of my grandchildren. As a researcher going back nearly 60 years I love to ask that kind of question and know how to phrase such inquiries appropriately.

Maybe you need to spend more time with a different age bracket, other than your immediate family. I suspect things have changed. Part of the interest in Latinx, is the melding of LGBTIQ members in the mix.

The survey, done in the last few weeks, which I referenced shows an enormously small percentage of Hispanics in the US like and prefer "LatinX". That sample had proportionality both geographically and by age groups and gender.

Among Spanish dominants of any age, Latinx is almost totally rejected and is considered hateful or ridiculous by those over 30 or so.

True bilinguals get it, but don't like it. Only among later generation Hispanics that are not bilingual or in any way Spanish proficient is the term acceptable.

Outside the US, there is pretty significant rejection. Of course, part of that comes from the fact that outside the US you find few English dominant Hispanics and the term is nearly non-pronounceable in Spanish.

Nearly every person I am in contact with is Latino (technically there are no "Hispanics" outside the US as the term is a government construct only here) and they are of all ages. I asked a couple of friends who are reggaetón artists (with names you'd see on any BDS list of that genre) and they considered the term ridiculous but "you have to respect those who do employ it".

 

[davideduardo]

How do you know David is a "Hispanic" man?

He doesn't. While I am considered "Hispanic" by the US Census based on two decennial census personal interviews, neither of my parents is Hispanic. But since the term is based on being part of or descendant of a culture, and among friends, family and work associates I speak mostly or all Spanish and have trouble associating at a friendship level with others, that's a distinction I can't make on my own.

As one of our program directors said years ago, "you are the only Gringo Mexicano that I know..."

Clearly you don't know the right way to describe either of us.

Showing, of course, the danger in trying to overly classify or analyze people.

 

[Kelly A]

I'm making an assumption that the group is in a highly politicized location in the DC area. That attitude there does not surprise me. There, it is likely a badge of wokeness

Gawd, I'm so sick of the cliche', overused-term 'woke'. Right up there with calling people 'snowflakes'.
As mentioned, I suspect who used to be okay with the term Latino and Latina, have discovered their own title that doesn't involve gender. Honestly, I could care less if they wanted me to call them 'Boaty MacBoatster' and Ms. Potato Head. Everyone has their thing, including you.

I have Millennial grandkids. They find "Latinx" laughable.

Did it occur that they may say that in front of you because you've poo-pooed the term in prior conversations? Sometimes it's better to let 'Abuelo' have his rants.

I'm sure there are pockets of highly assimilated Hispanics that prefer the term...

You mean like; 'The Borg'?

Among Spanish dominants of any age, Latinx is almost totally rejected and is considered hateful or ridiculous by those over 30 or so.

Anecdotal data point. It may seem that way in your circle, just like people on this radio discussion board believes their programming philosophies are the way.

True bilinguals get it, but don't like it. Only among later generation Hispanics that are not bilingual or in any way Spanish proficient is the term acceptable.

Again, anecdotal data.

Outside the US, there is pretty significant rejection. Of course, part of that comes from the fact that outside the US you find few English dominant Hispanics and the term is nearly non-pronounceable in Spanish.

LGTBQ people don't come out as often or as easily outside of the U.S either. Especially true if you don't want the crap beaten out of you, or worse.

"you have to respect those who do employ it".

Yep, and that's what I do.

 

[davideduardo]

It would be interesting to see if the responses differed based on the age of the respondent.

I understand that the "deep dive" results are available for purchase, but not available to all.

Otherwise, the poll mirrors my anecdotal experience.

And mine as well.

 

[macattack]

Are you talking about me? How do you know I'm a white woman? Looks like you could use some social sensitivity training 'Mr; Woke'.

How do you know David is a "Hispanic" man?
Clearly you don't know the right way to describe either of us.

I have never met a "Kelly" who isn't whiter than a sheet of paper. The only non-white Kelly I've even heard about is Kelly Marie Tran and that's because she was in a Star Wars movie. If I assumed your race wrongly I apologize but I go by my lived experience.

I work in a job with many Latino kids and also have been working with a bunch of young Latinos on a creative project - nobody in either area has an ounce of respect for "Latinx". I never prompted them on the question, they discussed it on their own, sometimes unaware that I'm listening. Perhaps I am overstepping my boundaries but through conversing with them they've convinced me that the best thing for the wider community to do is to not impose labels on them that they don't want.

As for the term "woke" I have no better term to describe that section of the left, just like the "Christian Right" was the best way to describe those on the right-wing who were similarly imposing of their beliefs in the 2000's, even though some of the individuals were not Christian (and obviously there's also the similar and more secular MAGA movement during the 2010's). It exists, it is a mainstream term, just like MAGA, even if you or others don't like it.

I am aware that I only can provide anecdotal experience and no true "deep dive", but that's all any of us are providing anyway, and it's no more or less valid than the rest of ours.

I would appreciate no assumption of my politics either; I have no interest in left-wing/right-wing discourse on this board, and the only reason why I'm chiming in is because I agree with the Latino population's universal exasperation over the "Latinx" term that I have experienced first-hand.

 

[davideduardo]

Gawd, I'm so sick of the cliche', overused-term 'woke'. Right up there with calling people 'snowflakes'.
As mentioned, I suspect who used to be okay with the term Latino and Latina, have discovered their own title that doesn't involve gender. Honestly, I could care less if they wanted me to call them 'Boaty MacBoatster' and Ms. Potato Head. Everyone has their thing, including you.

Actually, the English generalization term preferred in the US (but definitely not outside the US) is "Hispanic". For first generation residents, the actual heritage identifier such as "Boricua" or "Puerto Rican" or "Chapín" or "Catracho" or "Mexican" or "Chilango" or whatever is the choice.

In certain areas, terms for later-generation Latinos may be Chicanos, Pochos, Tejanos, Newyoricans, Dominicanyork, etc.

As to gender, native Spanish speakers grew up using and today continue to use a language that is gender-based. There is no linguistic gender discrimination or segregation in the language.

Did it occur that they may say that in front of you because you've poo-pooed the term in prior conversations? Sometimes it's better to let 'Abuelo' have his rants.

I don't object to the term, and since it is a very hard pronunciation in Spanish, I don't use it. In general, among Spanish speakers we don't make references to the broader Hispanic/Latino/Latinx but will often make references to national origin or heritage, as that determines tastes and interests.

You mean like; 'The Borg'?

No, like "peer group fear".

Anecdotal data point. It may seem that way in your circle, just like people on this radio discussion board believes their programming philosophies are the way.

No, proven by the stratified version of the Gallup survey I mentioned.

Again, anecdotal data.

No, based on both the public release data as well as internal research by media companies that live by serving the Hispanic consumer.

LGTBQ people don't come out as often or as easily outside of the U.S either. Especially true if you don't want the crap beaten out of you, or worse.

That is an ancient stereotype. Really ancient.

And, gee, the absolute and total idol of Mexico was... and still is... Juan Gabriel. In Puerto Rico and much of the US, for the last 50 years, it was Walter Mercado.

And then there is ultramegasuperstar Ricky Martin. Or the director Pedro Almodóvar. And many more whose names you would not know.

You likely have not lived for long periods outside the US in Latin America or worked in the media there.

Yep, and that's what I do.

As all of us should. However, the dimensions of the term's usage, and the survey showed, are very, very limited. I'm not arguing the validity of the term... just the extent of its actual use.

We just don't find a significant number of Spanish speaking Hispanics asking "what's your pronoun?"

 

[Kelly A]

I have never met a "Kelly" who isn't whiter than a sheet of paper. The only non-white Kelly I've even heard about is Kelly Marie Tran and that's because she was in a Star Wars movie.

The fact you make assumptions about people based on Star Wars movies, speaks volumes about your "lived experience".

If I assumed your race wrongly I apologize but I go by my lived experience.

Race or maybe gender too?

I work in a job with many Latino kids and also have been working with a bunch of young Latinos on a creative project

Let me guess; they're digging, moving heavy materials, or doing yard work? Again, just a guess..

- nobody in either area has an ounce of respect for "Latinx". I never prompted them on the question, they discussed it on their own, sometimes unaware that I'm listening. Perhaps I am overstepping my boundaries but through conversing with them they've convinced me that the best thing for the wider community to do is to not impose labels on them that they don't want.

News Flash: Just like other cultures, people who speak Spanish have different opinions and values. I worked with folks from the Middle East and North Africa for over ten years. Most spoke classic Arabic, but they had greatly differing values and opinions of how they should be addressed. Many time those opinions differed depending on what part of the region they came from.

As for the term "woke" I have no better term to describe that section of the left, just like the "Christian Right" was the best way to describe those on the right-wing who were similarly imposing of their beliefs in the 2000's, even though some of the individuals were not Christian (and obviously there's also the similar and more secular MAGA movement during the 2010's). It exists, it is a mainstream term, just like MAGA, even if you or others don't like it.

With the exception of idiots who get their news and health guidance from Facebook, I'm not a big fan of assigning labels to people. Not only do you diminish any hope of presenting an intelligent, or convincing argument by parroting terms used from political radio talk, or cable TV hosts, it reveals the limited scope of information you're bringing to the table. When it comes to a debate; it's like bringing a water balloon to a knife fight.

I would appreciate no assumption of my politics either; I have no interest in left-wing/right-wing discourse on this board, and the only reason why I'm chiming in is because I agree with the Latino population's universal exasperation over the "Latinx" term that I have experienced first-hand.

No, you went after me first, by making an incorrect assumptions of my race and gender. Then, you made another incorrect assumption about David. As David mentioned; he could be considered entirely-immersed in Hispanic/Latin American culture, but not born as one.
If you don't want people to make assumptions about your politics, then best not start out of the gate by making assumptions regarding their race or gender. As you may have (hopefully) realized by now, it's impossible to make such assumptions in a textual environment, or run the risk of looking foolish.

 

[boombox4]

For what it's worth, Hispanics I've interacted with (and there are a lot of them in the part of town where I work) don't go by Hispanic, Latino, or Latinx. They usually refer to themselves as either Mexican, Mexicano, Mexican-American, or Salvadoran. If they're a citizen they'll sometimes also insist on being called an American. Overall, they seem to generally refer to themselves by the appellation that applies to their native country.

When I've heard them refer to Spanish speaking immigrants as a whole, they use the word Latino, usually in the plural.

But that's just anecdotal, like most of the other opinions in this part of the thread.