I think that only applies in the four biggest markets though, not really in the rest of the country. There are however, advantages southern rimshots, especially 102.9 have, over full Seattle signals. We were up at Camano Island a couple years ago, back when 102.9 was still Now. My aunt and uncle's cabin is right on the water, on the west side of the island. Seattle signals are terrible there, the only reason we rarely change the car radio is because they don't start really going until you drop down the hill less than a mile away. Anyway, I walked into the cabin one time and caught a Now 102.9 ID on the radio. They thought it was a Canadian signal, I of course set them straight. Still though, at nearly 90 miles, that signal is easily listenable, though difficult to get in stereo on the G8 which I also had with me that day.
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Technical Changes Coming to KZTM
- Thread starter fordranger797
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But just being over Seattle-proper isn't enough. 'Hot zip' areas like; Kent, Auburn, Maple Valley, and Bellevue are more valuable to reach than West Seattle, Queen Anne, Capital Hill, Ballard or SODO.
Your analysis doesn't matter from a business standpoint. Just because the signal to an unpopulated area was better than the full market signal means nothing. That, and you're a DX'er. Few people look for signals the way you do.
I'm sure they were fascinated too.
Outside of the market. Doesn't matter.
It applies to a lot of markets where the geography is large. The first that comes to mind is Traverse City, MI. There are several population centers, such as the namesake town, Cheboygan and Petoskey that have stations that don't cover the entire market.
Some operators use multiple stations, other just sell part of the market.
There are quite a few smaller markets that are really areas where most stations only cover portions. Key West, FL, and the now unrated Prescott/Flagstaff market are other examples.
It does work in Vancouver BC - Praise 106.5 gets a sizable audience in the Lower Mainland. But not as many as the locals in Vancouver itself.
I'm sure KXXO did as well, but with the WFH population going up, the audience has likely simmered down in south King County and Tacoma. I still miss when they were on Rooster Rock. Best transmitter site bar none on the western side of the state. But a struggle to travel up in snowy winters.
On topic, KDDS has the booster signals, including a kilowatt booster in Kent (16% Hispanic population) and another one serving Seattle. 102.9 does not. And 99.3 carries highly-rated shows like Erazno y la Chokolata.
I'm sure KXXO did as well, but with the WFH population going up, the audience has likely simmered down in south King County and Tacoma. I still miss when they were on Rooster Rock. Best transmitter site bar none on the western side of the state. But a struggle to travel up in snowy winters.
On topic, KDDS has the booster signals, including a kilowatt booster in Kent (16% Hispanic population) and another one serving Seattle. 102.9 does not. And 99.3 carries highly-rated shows like Erazno y la Chokolata.
All points quite true, I wouldn't know quite how much of an advantage any of those factors actually are. I would be curious whether those living in places like downtown Edmonds or other waterfront areas where Seattle signals are not that usable still listen to them or go to the more distant but also more usable signals. David, are there any studies about this?
That makes total sense! Even in the example of "rimshot" radio stations in Western Washington, it makes no sense for a regional business in Thurston or Pierce County to pay for advertising on a top rated Seattle radio station when they could target their customers decently on a station located closer to their target audience at a much cheaper rate. Would advertising on a top rated Seattle station help? Probably. But the cost differential would be huge.
102.9 is a very impressive signal, but they also are throwing out quite a bit of power too. With that being said, you might have a chance at hearing some of the other south sound signals if not for co-channels located on each of the other frequencies. The fact that there are full class C stations located on the same frequencies drastically reduces their northern coverage. Your experience on Camano Island makes sense, considering that the Seattle FMs were shielded by land, and you had a decently clear shot to the South South for one signal to come through.
Rooster Rock was impressive, but it also had significant pitfalls (beyond snowfall). That site was capable of reaching listeners in Portland, OR and all of the way up to BC when it was active (and without a co-channel on 96.1). Unfortunately, that site also cursed with an underground power line issue that could not be resolved. When the site became too challenging, they moved to an auxiliary site for a while with a drastically smaller footprint. You could be driving along the Tacoma waterfront and hear CHKG when that site was active.
I think KIRO-FM could be good example of Seattle being less important. As we already know, they tend to lean to the right, depending on what show is airing. I’d argue that most of their listeners are suburban. It’s the opposite for KUOW, which leans more to the left. I’d say that they perform better in Seattle proper than they would in Everett or Tacoma. Therefore, it makes sense to keep their transmitter in the middle of the city.
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Keep in mind that there are two kinds of advertising buyers.
First are those, mostly agencies and larger multi-location retailers, who use ratings. They look at the total market, not bits and pieces. If one station misses part of the market, buy buying several stations deep, they get a good percentage of the market anyway.
Second are the local retail accounts. They buy based on Revenue, Results and Relationships. They don't buy from stations that don't serve them well. They buy stations they get sales from, and stations that build traffic. They don't look at coverage maps or ratings... their measure is the cash register.
So it does not matter if a station misses the waterfront at Edmonds. What matters is whether it either, in case A, has nice ratings in the target audience group or, in case B, gets people into the store.
Hmm interesting, but not quite what I was asking. There may not be data on this, and if that's the case then just say so. The question I was asking actually has to do with the thread I started about a year ago. When I first moved down here, I asked whether it was worth spending the money on lots of power when where I am just a bit more power to the translators would meet my needs and probably the needs of a good percentage of the market. In that thread, it was either you or one of the others on this board who would know that pointed out that we know that like 95% of listening is done within the 60 DBU of a station's contours. I'm curious whether there has been research as to whether that holds with a station like 102.9, which while a rimshot, has a much better signal in certain areas of the market than the full signals. In other words, are there stations that do well in certain zip codes even though those signals shouldn't reach them on paper because in reality they are quite useable while the locals that seem like they should are actually shielded by terrain?
The Olympia market is pretty small, and it seems like it would be difficult to make a run at another station targeting the market. The big players are KYYO, KXXO, KGY-FM (not really "KGY," but branding itself as such on 95.3) and KRXY. There are many other smaller players as well, with translator signals on 100.3, 92.9, among other frequencies. Now that 105.7 is moving in, it seems difficult to cut slices of that pie any smaller.
That's because certain areas have more consistent PPM participation than others, and why Kent, Auburn, Bellevue, and other communities are known as "hot zipcode" areas (aka Hot Zips)
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Sure, that's what Thurston County needs, more radio stations to slice a small advertising pie slice, that much thinner. Everyone loses
The only way I could see a 92.1 signing on in Thurston County is if one of the existing operators decides they'd rather have a full powered signal rather than an existing translator. Interestingly, it's quite rare that a translator is completely turned off, even when a format is moved to another signal.
Fair enough... I hadn't heard the 'hot zip' term before.
So in certain metros (like Seattle, for example) the higher income areas (like West Seattle, Capitol Hill) might not factor into the ratings as much as relatively lower income areas that have better participation?
Over the years since the adoption of PPM, I don't believe there's ever been data to back up that income particularly effects levels of participation. Anecdotally, one might assume that people with higher or multiple incomes per household, may consider themselves simply too busy to participate. David might have more nationwide information on economics vs willingness to participate, but pretty much in every market I've seen, there are communities who seem willing to participate in surveys more than others. That goes for TV or radio.
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