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HD sidebands broadcasting DX signal

C

CurtisNEPA

Today, I put on a local HD sideband signal located on 98.5 WKRZ here in Wilkes-Barre and what was amazing is that when I put in the HD-3, instead of listening to the religious station that originates from that side channel to the translator located on 92.5, I was hearing a staticky rock station broadcasting out of Binghamton, NY that is owned by that "monster" IHeartMedia. That rock station I am talking about broadcasts on the same frequency as our local translator WKRZ's analog signal(and HD-1) is owned by Audacy. At the time, we were under a severe thunderstorm warning and as a result, our local 92.5 translator(which rebroadcasts that 98.5 HD-3 signal) was believed to be knocked off the air, thus allowing me to listen to such a distant station from 80 miles away on that HD-3 signal! This has been the strangest phenomenon where you get to listen to an out-of-market signal whenever a FM translator which usually broadcasts from one of the HD sidebands of the main signal gets knocked off the air.

Here is the footage of a distant signal on an HD channel that was captured using my iPad:


Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon?
 
So, umm, that is weird, and completely backwards from what it should be if I am understanding you correctly. The HD3 is the originator of the programming you hear on your local translator, not the other way around. If the translator is taken off the air by lighting, power issues, etc, that should not affect the HD3 channel in the slightest.

What this seems to indicate is that your 92.5 translator is originating a signal that the "main" station is picking up over the air and retransmitting on 98.5 HD3. When the 92.5 translator went down, whatever receiver they have to feed the HD3 went looking for audio on 92.5 and found it 80 miles away. Which is not surprising since undoubtedly the receiver is up high at the transmitter shack for your local 98.5.

Technically not legal but hardly shocking, no?
 
How is that possible? W223CC 92.5 in Wilkes-Barre is supposed to be getting its programming fed to it by WKRZ-HD3, not the other way around. Translators aren't allowed to originate programming but it sounds as though W223CC is doing exactly that if WKRZ-HD3 is set up to receive an air feed from 92.5 and rebroadcast it. Is someone in Wilkes-Barre is trying to pull a fast one with that setup?
 
Fill-in translators can be fed by any method, as long as they broadcast the same programming as the HD subchannel. So the HD3 being fed by the translator is legal. If the translator and the HD3 are broadcasting different content, that's not legal.
 
From the Lord's pain and wellness center studio?
So, the Lord gives pain and wellness from the center?
 
I am so confused. I thought that a translator could not originate programming. But what this sounds like is that if a translator is feeding an HD channel, that translator can be the one generating the content? Because if so, and the HD channel goes down, you would have to turn off the translator too, right? Otherwise K272BD or whatever is basically just a standalone FM station, and that cannot be legal. Can it?
 
The New Chico said:
Because if so, and the HD channel goes down, you would have to turn off the translator too, right?
Click to expand...
My interpretation is: not necessarily. If the HD channel went down due to technical issues and they are in the process of resolution there is a gray area whereby it can be assumed that the FCC does not want a total loss of service.

For example, if an HD2 is off because the station it is on lost its main transmitter due to a lightening strike, the AUX rig does not have HD capability, and the repairs are taking up to several weeks due to COVID delays, it's assumed that the translator can stay on.

Let's take a translator with an HD that is the only Vietnamese service in the market... it is not reasonable to deprive the users of that station of service due to a technical issue.

OTOH, if the lease of the HD channel expired and the translator just keeps on running, that is not legal.

This fits in the same category where there are no specific rules such as when AM stations that are low power directional at night stay on the day facility 24/7 during a hurricane.
 
That's what happened recently to my local K-LOVE translator on 88.5. It receives KYKV over the air from 103.1 and relays it to Ellensburg at 88.5. Well, KYKV was off the air completely twice this summer, and both times the translator retransmitted '103.1 the Outlaw', K276GF Pendleton OR! It's // KTIX-1240 AM, classic country. Very noisy signal, but the 88.5 signal strength was still the same as if it was still rebroadcasting K-LOVE.
 
I know of at least one other station doing this, WSYR 106.9 in Syracuse, NY has Air 1 on its HD3 which is fed from 101.3 W267AL. One day 101.3 was off the air and WSYR HD3 was playing static.
 
spunker88 said:
I know of at least one other station doing this, WSYR 106.9 in Syracuse, NY has Air 1 on its HD3 which is fed from 101.3 W267AL. One day 101.3 was off the air and WSYR HD3 was playing static.
Click to expand...
Something probably failed that was feeding the HD3 input. Doubt anyone would do that on purpose.
 
Audio finds a way sometimes. Worked at an AM/FM combo where when the audio from the "bird" would drop out the FM audio chain would find the AM audio and relay it up to the FM transmitter. Sounded like crap of course, but it still got out over the air.
 
Ai4i said:
What kind of static?
Can you describe it?
Click to expand...
It would have sounded exactly like an FM radio tuned to 101.3 in the absence of a local signal, because that's what it was.

The 101.3 translator is licensed as a fill-in translator of WSYR-FM, and thus can be fed by any method, in this case directly via satellite from EMF headquarters (with a local file playback system to insert an hourly ID and any other local content.)

The only requirement is that the translator carry the same audio content as WSYR-FM (or in this case, WSYR-FM-HD3), and that's met by receiving the 101.3 signal off-air at either the iHeart studios in Syracuse (a couple of blocks away from the 101.3 transmitter site) or at the WSYR-FM transmitter (a few miles to the southeast).

It may not be exactly what the FCC had in mind, but it complies with the letter of the law as long as all the signals are working.
 
bigic said:
Fill-in translators can be fed by any method, as long as they broadcast the same programming as the HD subchannel. So the HD3 being fed by the translator is legal. If the translator and the HD3 are broadcasting different content, that's not legal.
Click to expand...
I'm having similar problems picking up KPRC 950 on KTBZ-FM HD-3. The HD-1 and HD-2 channels are easily received by my current model Insignia. But HD-3 seems to be on another shorter, lower (HAAT and ERP) antenna (like a translator) because it decodes if I manipulate the pigtail antenna around. But even decoded and antenna kept in position, the signal is not reliable with the notable dropouts/audio pixelation.

Talk about legal: iHeart seems to be pulling off PSIP on HD Radio! Meanwhile the local NPR station broadcasts 4 subchannels without a glitch.
 
KTN Corp said:
Talk about legal: iHeart seems to be pulling off PSIP on HD Radio! Meanwhile the local NPR station broadcasts 4 subchannels without a glitch.
Click to expand...
PSIP? You mean PAD data? That's nothing new. How do you think you get artist, title, and album cover art on the radio display?
 
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