Deeper Issues?

[b-turner]

Radio like everything else is different now that it was. It is much more challenging now. I realize I am a an exception of a station that beats out about 50 other stations on the dial. You'd swear it was 1975 or 1980 here when it comes to radio. Yes our listeners tell Alexis to play us or they pull us up on the app. They listen on those funny things called radios. The number of businesses that play us versus Sirius/XM is amazing. This is reflected in our revenue as well. Yes we lose lots of dollars to other media options but we sure aren't hurting. And we're voicetracked beyond morning drive.

If we listened to everybody that says radio is dead, we would have given up. No radio isn't what it was 50 years ago but we are doing just fine. Sure, it is harder to maintain than in the past but I can tell you it was just as difficult to break even back 50 years ago when you had to have a warm body in the studio every hour you were on the air and paid for dedicated phone line for the AP ticker and NWS ticker and maybe network news. You had a first class engineer on staff, usually had a person working all day to type the program log, etc.

 

[landtuna]

Yet he was getting 20 shares in NYC at one point, and that meant that he was getting the vast majority of the youth audience... and what was left spilled over to one of the other nearly identically programmed Top 40 stations. So what you are saying is that you have always been a contrarian. Radio does not program to contrarians.

When I lived in NYC I usually listened to WOR-FM and not the loud and in-your-face Cousin Brucie. Same music without the noise.

 

[Kelly A]

Actually? Yes.

Part of my post-radio career is to be analytical.

For someone who claims to be analytical, you sure refer to a lot of personal, solely anecdotal data.

I push the tech, and when something goes wrong I analyze where the problem occurred and confer with the engineers to make it better.

Really? So in your view, how would one improve the technology of radio that it could compete with smartphone media?

Granted, I'm working with specific systems and their behaviors, but analyzing potential weaknesses in any system isn't a bad idea.

And you don't think radio professionals haven't looked at ways of getting new listeners? iHeart, Townsquare and Audicy have diversified into streaming along with radio.

I used to do it all the time when I was in radio. What is it that we're doing wrong? Where did the breakdown occur? How can it be improved moving forward?

And then you eventually left the business, without anything more now than sideline observations..

Is it wrong for you to look at your meal ticket and seek potential faults? Is it wrong for you to be big enough to say "maybe we're doing it wrong" and look for a better path forward?

Or, did it ever occur to you that professionals in the business are doing it as well as it can be done over a period of time?

More important to the discussion at hand, is it wrong for you to acknowledge that mistakes were made in the past? My answers to these questions would be "no," but your mileage may vary.

As has already been mentioned, those companies that remained focused on just owning, programming, and selling advertising on radio stations now find themselves running well behind successful trends. But also as BigA and David have said; radio isn't just one thing, or just one owner. With over ten thousand radio stations in the U.S., their mileage may vary.

Yes, I believe young people are not interested in radio. I'm willing to bet that if I said the name "Audacy" among my younger co-workers they'd look at me the same way they do if I'd referenced the telegraph. I believe that for them, the thing in the center of their car's dash is not a "radio," but rather a device to connect their phone to so they can stream music.

There is already data that shows adults 18+ still listen to radio in their vehicles. They may not ONLY listen to radio like the old days, but they still do. If you actually bothered to obtain the data, you could seriously claim to be analytical on the subject.

 

[seatownmedia]

Look, these radio frequencies are not going away. As long as they exist there will be some programming on them. The question is will they still be important. In other words, content will drive success. But if the medium becomes secondary to most users then the game is over. I think right now it is a 50/50 proposition.

 

[davideduardo]

To be honest I don't hear much noise emanating from house or car these days. Just very loud and distorted hip-hop/rap (which doesn't seem to be sourced from an OTA radio station).

And there is one of OTA radio's issues: much of those genres has lyrics that can't be broadcast on radio. And if radio tries to sanitize the songs, the listeners see it as a weakness and reject it even more.

That is one of the issues radio has today in reaching teens and very young adults; the permissiveness of society is in conflict with the regulation of radio.

 

[Deus Ex Machiato]

There is already data that shows adults 18+ still listen to radio in their vehicles. They may not ONLY listen to radio like the old days, but they still do. If you actually bothered to obtain the data, you could seriously claim to be analytical on the subject.

What's the data on 18-24? Not which slice of that demo listens to your station vs others, but radio in general? Is it going up? Because simply claiming "adults 18+ still listen to radio in their vehicles" is like bragging that you've got the #1 station 6+.

 

[TheBigA]

What's the data on 18-24? Not which slice of that demo listens to your station vs others, but radio in general? Is it going up? Because simply claiming "adults 18+ still listen to radio in their vehicles" is like bragging that you've got the #1 station 6+.

According to Nielsen, 71 million 18-34 each month.

Radio Facts and Figures | News Generation | Broadcast Media Relations

Radio is the leading reach platform: 93% of us listen to AM/FM radio over the airwaves, which is higher than TV viewership (88%), PC use (50%), smartphone use (83%), and tablet use (37%). More than 243 million American adults listen to the radio each month.

newsgeneration.com

 

[Deus Ex Machiato]

Not the question I asked, and not an objective source. Again, another "radio is doing just fine! Everyone is listening!" post. Where's the revenue going? Up or down? Where are the ad dollars being spent? To hear you tell it, nothing is wrong. The industry is exactly as strong as it was when radio was the only game in town...perhaps even stronger!

 

[TheBigA]

Not the question I asked, and not an objective source.

What's "not objective" about Nielsen? Do you know anything at all about them other than they don't fit your narrative?

You want real data? Pay for it. Pay real sources since you don't like the free ones.

You asked a question, and I tried to be helpful. It was given to you without any comment from me, and then you spin it into some crap to fit your narrative. That's not at all nice. You can answer your own questions from now on.

 

[b-turner]

What a moronic statement was what I thought of my a friend that believes the business plan of research companies is to offer untrue information as a successful business plan. With all the trust placed on their research and the extensive checking by third parties for accuracy, it is crazy to think any company can offer unreliable information that advertisers across the nation utilize for their advertising decisions and still remain in business. To actually believe that, well, I already said, is moronic.

The quote was: What's the data on 18-24? Not which slice of that demo listens to your station vs others, but radio in general? Is it going up? Because simply claiming "adults 18+ still listen to radio in their vehicles" is like bragging that you've got the #1 station 6+.
And when answered, you changed the question to:
Not the question I asked, and not an objective source. Again, another "radio is doing just fine! Everyone is listening!" post. Where's the revenue going? Up or down? Where are the ad dollars being spent? To hear you tell it, nothing is wrong. The industry is exactly as strong as it was when radio was the only game in town...perhaps even stronger!

Sort of reminds me of my friend. Obviously you hate radio. Obviously you are not in the business. Obviously we are not providing the answers you want. Just go ahead and hate radio and we'll just continue to work the business. I doubt we can change your mind. You won't change ours. Why waste your time on a site that discusses something you don't care for? It seems counterproductive.

 

[Deus Ex Machiato]

What's "not objective" about Nielsen?

What are the 18-24 numbers?

The thing is, you and David and Kelly are pushing this narrative that since the 18+ or 18-34 numbers from an industry source are looking good, then 90% of 18 year olds can't wait to turn on the radio when they get in their car, and then once they get home they tune in to a radio.

I also noticed that you failed to lay out the case that revenues are not taking a hit. That advertisers are not abandoning radio. That there's a generation of young talent dreaming of becoming the next Bob and Tom or Cousin Brucie.

Nothing to see here, folks. Radio is as healthy as it ever was. Move along.

 

[TheBigA]

Since you already know all the answers, there's no point in me trying to help. You're on your own.

 

[davideduardo]

Since you already know all the answers, there's no point in me trying to help. You're on your own.

Agree.

We have detailed listening data. We have revenue data. We have our private internal research.

And then we have a kid with a cap gun shooting from the sidelines.

 

[TheBigA]

And then we have a kid with a cap gun shooting from the sidelines.

He prefers his anecdotal information because it supports his opinion. That's fine. The internet is filled with people who feel that way. Where he went off base is when he started telling me what *I* think and putting words in my mouth. That's when it's time to shut it down.

 

[boombox4]

What are the 18-24 numbers?

The thing is, you and David and Kelly are pushing this narrative that since the 18+ or 18-34 numbers from an industry source are looking good, then 90% of 18 year olds can't wait to turn on the radio when they get in their car, and then once they get home they tune in to a radio.

I also noticed that you failed to lay out the case that revenues are not taking a hit. That advertisers are not abandoning radio. That there's a generation of young talent dreaming of becoming the next Bob and Tom or Cousin Brucie.

Nothing to see here, folks. Radio is as healthy as it ever was. Move along.

I've been mostly on the sidelines here in this thread, but I still don't get your basic point.

We all know that radio revenues are down from earlier decades. And we all know that though the number of radio listeners is still high, they aren't listening as long as they used to. I think David has mentioned this in other threads.

The movers and shakers in the radio industry have to deal with those factors, as well as some others, and their answer appears to be consolidate where feasible, automate where feasible, and diversify further into streaming. It's the reality they live with.

What would you do different, which would have a better result?

 

[seatownmedia]

Radio, over the past couple decades has become an enigma. As in audiences are lower so stations cut back. If the content got better perhaps audiences will improve. Do I really believe that? No. The advance of alternate platforms forms my answer.

 

[TheBigA]

If the content got better perhaps audiences will improve. Do I really believe that? No. The advance of alternate platforms forms my answer.

Plus keep in mind that the programming on alternate platforms isn't necessarily better. It's just created by and for the user.

That option doesn't exist for broadcast radio.

 

[landtuna]

That is one of the issues radio has today in reaching teens and very young adults; the permissiveness of society is in conflict with the regulation of radio.

I don't think society is "permissive", rather it just tends to move on down the dial to get away from the language or it hits the off button. I'm no prude but that's one reason I stick to the Oldies.

 

[gr8oldies]

I don't think society is "permissive", rather it just tends to move on down the dial to get away from the language or it hits the off button. I'm no prude but that's one reason I stick to the Oldies.

We had plenty of double entendre and some pretty wild stuff for its day, but nothing where you had to bleep 3/4 of the song. "you're a bleep bleeep ho bleep bleep and I want to bleep bleeep"

 

[landtuna]

Plus keep in mind that the programming on alternate platforms isn't necessarily better. It's just created by and for the user.

That option doesn't exist for broadcast radio.

Radio has already done this to an extent. I remember the days where a single station would play both Country and MOR music and also have non-music features in between. Now every station seems to belong to a single genre and even uses that branding in its advertising.