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Alt 105.3 Flips to Adult Hits "105.3 Dave FM"

[email protected] hasn't been about alternative for many years. It's a middle-of-the-road A/C station now, and would spin the new Adele single 50 times before giving airplay to anything Alternative.
Yes I remember when Infinity ran the station in the late 1990's and early 2000's they were Modern AC/Alternative at the time. But given Alice/Audacy San Francisco current management they had to change the playlists that reflect the current demos in the Bay Area.


If San Francisco wants an Alternative station today it will be via streaming of KKDO Sacramento the Valleys Alternative station. Note KKDO's signal can reach parts of Solano County on OTA signal. However if you are in the Santa Rosa area you can get alternative on OTA via KSXY-FM 100.9 but the listening area would be in Sonoma County only.


KKDO-FM Radio Station Coverage Map


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KKDO


 
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If San Francisco wants an Alternative station today it will be via streaming of KKDO Sacramento the Valleys Alternative station.
That would be really insignificant. If people have to stream their music they're more likely to just move to Spotify, Amazon, Apple Music, YouTube Music, etc., not stream an out-of-market FM station.

Either someone else in the market will flip to Alternative or this will end up being another nail in the coffin of FM radio as the format disappears forcing more people to abandon it.

It seems like every broadcaster just wants those 45-year-old passive listeners who are satisfied hearing stuff they grew up with on the radio 20-30 years ago. Trouble is they don't want to invest in formats that build future audiences, they just want the instant gratification of making money now with the most lucrative middle-aged money demo. Well 10-15 years from now those listeners will age out of the money demo and the broadcasters will find themselves unable to attract new listeners because all those people they're ignoring today will have no interest in FM radio whatsoever, they're growing up in an era where streaming services provide a much better alternative. By that measure, streaming services *are* the modern "Alternative".
 
None. That is becoming a very fragmented "format of formats" with distinctive and conflicting subgroups that don't like each other's music.
Audacy made a mistake flipping WDZH in Detroit
That would be really insignificant. If people have to stream their music they're more likely to just move to Spotify, Amazon, Apple Music, YouTube Music, etc., not stream an out-of-market FM station.

Either someone else in the market will flip to Alternative or this will end up being another nail in the coffin of FM radio as the format disappears forcing more people to abandon it.

It seems like every broadcaster just wants those 45-year-old passive listeners who are satisfied hearing stuff they grew up with on the radio 20-30 years ago. Trouble is they don't want to invest in formats that build future audiences, they just want the instant gratification of making money now with the most lucrative middle-aged money demo. Well 10-15 years from now those listeners will age out of the money demo and the broadcasters will find themselves unable to attract new listeners because all those people they're ignoring today will have no interest in FM radio whatsoever, they're growing up in an era where streaming services provide a much better alternative. By that measure, streaming services *are* the modern "Alternative".
I guess young people are listening to radio in their cars
 
Either someone else in the market will flip to Alternative or this will end up being another nail in the coffin of FM radio as the format disappears forcing more people to abandon it.
Alternative is so split into subsets it is not a radio format any longer as there is nearly no consensus music except for songs that are, in some cases, decades old.
It seems like every broadcaster just wants those 45-year-old passive listeners who are satisfied hearing stuff they grew up with on the radio 20-30 years ago.
Current music is very fragmented. We have CHR, Churban, Urban, Contemporary Country, Regional Mexican, Reggaetón, Hot AC all appealing primarily to 18-34 and 25-44.

There is, simply, no truly viable rock format that has appeal to 18-34 or even 18-44 the way the ones I have named do. The downwards trend of rock in younger demos was demonstrated over 20 years ago in the decennial Edison Research music trend report, and reinforced in the 2010 study.

Not having an alternative rock station in a market is hardly a disaster any longer; it is getting to the point that it is like not having a true oldies station, a big band station, a beautiful music station or, even, a polka station.

"Young adults" and "rock" are not synonymous.
 
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Did 103.7 possibly make a mistake by not devoting more music slots to post-80's material? Seems to me that might've closed the door for an Adult Hits upstart to emerge.
 
Audacy made a mistake flipping WDZH in Detroit
When they flipped from Soft AC, also a hard sell due to older age, they lost well over half of their billing. That is terrible, even taking into account the arrival of the pandemic. The mistake Oddity made was flipping to Alt; they could have remained in the Soft AC arena and modified the format the way WFEZ did in Miami but they seem to have the old "Not Invented Here Syndrome" mentality of not seeing trends and adapting to them.

"When William Orton, President of the Western Union Telegraph Company, was offered the patent to the newly invented telephone by Alexander Graham Bell for a mere $100,000, the mogul dismissed the outsider’s invention as nothing more than a “toy”"

 
Shame the alternative format is no longer in the Bay Area. This definitely shows the core audience for the format has shifted off to streaming platforms and other alternatives (no pun intended).

I do think there's a good opportunity for a non-commercial alternative/AAA station to pop up in town, much like KEXP in Seattle or KCMP in Minneapolis/St. Paul.
 
Shame the alternative format is no longer in the Bay Area. This definitely shows the core audience for the format has shifted off to streaming platforms and other alternatives (no pun intended).
It's not as much that the audience has shifted as it is two very real things:

First, Alternative Rock has fragmented into pieces too small to justify a format. So a broad Alt format is either limited to very few consensus songs or has to play a bunch of songs they know that a big part of the audience won't like.

Second, the younger demos have switched to non-rock and mostly rhythmic kinds of contemporary music. This decline was first noted and studied by Edison Research in the 90's, well before even the iPod and widely used streaming.

This is not a radio issue... it is one of changing musical tastes and, perhaps, lack of support by the music industry.
I do think there's a good opportunity for a non-commercial alternative/AAA station to pop up in town, much like KEXP in Seattle or KCMP in Minneapolis/St. Paul.
AAA is a 55 and older format, and that is why so few of those exist commercially and the ones in markets like Portland and Denver are now so old leaning that sales are declining despite "good" 12+ numbers.

Alt is an 18-34 and 18-49 format for the most part. And those demos have been moving over the last 25 years towards more rhythmic music.

And, not often mentioned, Alt rock is very narrowly accepted outside the US and Canada and, maybe, the UK and Australia. Other forms of rock, going back to the later 60's, have been wildly successful in much of the rest of the world. For example, in the 80's, out of 21 FMs in Lima, Perú, played English language music, and ten of them were "rock" and not AC or Top 40.

This kind of word rejection of Alt has a very great impact on the mostly foreign owned record industry. They are far less prone to deal with music that can't be internationalized.

This is more than Audacy's ineptitude in selecting and programming formats.
 
They did evolve WDZH prior to the flip, David. Station was mostly playing 80s, 90s and some early 00s material and was sounding GOOD. Texturally, it sounded much more contemporary than when it first launched.

I generally am not a Soft AC fan at all, but I found myself tuning into 98.7 The Breeze regularly.

You are completely correct that abandoning that format, especially for Alt, was a major blunder. Thanks for providing some info regarding the drop in billing; not surprised it fell off a cliff!
 
Not having an alternative rock station in a market is hardly a disaster any longer; it is getting to the point that it is like not having a true oldies station, a big band station, a beautiful music station or, even, a polka station.

"Young adults" and "rock" are not synonymous.
I think you're channeling a lot of the dismissive denialism I see in the business when anyone brings this topics up. Sure it's easy to say oh, we don't need rock or alternative radio stations because young adults don't care (many do), but what's your solution? Where's the investment in radio's future listeners?

CHR? OK that gets some younger females but it's not what a lot of guys like. Besides, even some of the nation's biggest CHR stations pull their best numbers 25-54. Those stations have aging morning show jocks and are still targeting the money demo jackpot, not the 18 year-olds.

Hip Hop? Yeah some of the white suburban kids think it's cool but they're not listening to it on the radio where the lyrics are censored, and that's not the future.

So sure, put some more Jack stations on the air and count your money. Just keep your eye on the exit and head that way before the middle age house of cards crashes down.
 
They did evolve WDZH prior to the flip, David. Station was mostly playing 80s, 90s and some early 00s material and was sounding GOOD. Texturally, it sounded much more contemporary than when it first launched.
As I said, the only Alt music that has some consensus appeal is older. But that limits the format to mostly people in their later 40's and 50's. But the elephant in the room is the gradual but constant decline of rock in general to the broader general public.
You are completely correct that abandoning that format, especially for Alt, was a major blunder. Thanks for providing some info regarding the drop in billing; not surprised it fell off a cliff!
Obviously, a radical new format will zap billings. Going from older AC to Alt is a guarantee of starting over at zero billings. It takes the better part of a year for billings to get back to "normal" if the format is successful. And it obviously was not.
 
I think you're channeling a lot of the dismissive denialism I see in the business when anyone brings this topics up. Sure it's easy to say oh, we don't need rock or alternative radio stations because young adults don't care (many do), but what's your solution? Where's the investment in radio's future listeners?
Going for a format that is fragmented in the 18-34 age group would truly mean doing two or three different Alt blends. Otherwise, you get a very low ranked station with a format that is less appealing to advertisers.

In Europe, many broadcasters in nations like France, Germany and Italy have done streamed variants when there is fragmentation, keeping the most mainstream on the FM network (they are all networked in Europe). They'll have an avant garde variant, an older variant, a classic variant, a more international one, etc. One of my favorite French stations has eight different variants of classic hits on its streams.
CHR? OK that gets some younger females but it's not what a lot of guys like. Besides, even some of the nation's biggest CHR stations pull their best numbers 25-54. Those stations have aging morning show jocks and are still targeting the money demo jackpot, not the 18 year-olds.
CHR gets 18-34 and 25-44 women, but does OK in men... just not as well. But CHR / Pop is not the mainstream any more. In most markets it is Churban, Urban, Reggaetón, Regional Mexican, even current Country and Hot AC. All are going after the same demos and have much more audience than CHR.

Most general market broad buys are 25-54, not 18-34. And 18-24 is a very narrow buy seldom coming up.
Hip Hop? Yeah some of the white suburban kids think it's cool but they're not listening to it on the radio where the lyrics are censored, and that's not the future.
Yet the two stations in LA playing it have combined shares that beat CHR... as do the two Reggaetón stations.
So sure, put some more Jack stations on the air and count your money. Just keep your eye on the exit and head that way before the middle age house of cards crashes down.
The idea that nobody in the younger demos listens to radio is vastly exaggerated. All radio's total TSL is down, but that is because there are so many alternatives. Radio TSL started declining in the early 90's; the reason was video games and portable entertainment. The more sources, the more fragmentation. This is not about just streaming; it is about technology giving us more alternatives.
 
Sure it's easy to say oh, we don't need rock or alternative radio stations because young adults don't care (many do), but what's your solution? Where's the investment in radio's future listeners?

Complicated question. Radio can't necessarily invest in music. That's the music industry's job. So radio is dependent on the music industry to develop music that appeals to a broader range of people, and that doesn't seem to be happening.

Let's look at the top formats in San Francisco for 18-34: The obvious #1 is KMEL (tied with KYLD). So CHR is obviously tops for young adults.

But what's next? KISQ! The Breeze! How can that be? #4 is KSAN. Classic rock. More old music from the 70s & 80s.

So other than CHR, the most listened-to stations by young adults in San Francisco are stations that play music that is older than the demo. How does that make sense? Because these are songs that were written and produced back at a time when the music industry made music that was successful in targeting young adults. In a way, a lot of what has followed has been derivative from the music of that time. I was at a music conference this wknd, and some of the attendees were under 30. I was surprised how knowledgeable they were about the music of the 70s and 80s. So is this a radio problem or a music problem?

To be honest, I starting to think the investment in radio's future listeners should be aimed at non-music content.
 
To be honest, I starting to think the investment in radio's future listeners should be aimed at non-music content.
Considering that WINS, WTOP, Z100, Hot 97, KIIS, KCRW, Power 106, BBC Radio 1, KEXP, etc. are distinctive radio brands, with some of them having a following outside their coverage area… Having compelling personalities or some local patina really helps, even during an era of on-demand streaming.
 
Having compelling personalities or some local patina really helps, even during an era of on-demand streaming.

In some places, such as Boston, the #1 station 18-34 is the sports talk station. So young people will listen to the radio if it gives them a chance to participate in a conversation that interests them.

We also seeing NPR stations rate well among 18-34 in certain urban markets. So the personalities and the content don't necessarily have to be local in order to attract 18-34. Just compelling, and once again, presenting relevant topics.

But yes, radio needs to focus on the content it creates and delivers, because if it only depends on music, the results can be iffy. Only certain music stations are attracting younger audiences, and only under certain circumstances.
 
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When this format started as “Rock of the 80s”, primarily on KROQ in Los Angeles, the mix was split between hard and soft stuff- you had pop like Spandau Ballet, Erasure, Culture Club, Pet Shop Boys and stuff like that mixed with the Ramones, Social Distortion and Sex Pistols. When Nirvana broke through and became the next big thing, the format shifted far more towards that and left the softer stuff in the dust. I always liked both but much preferred synth-pop. The harder stuff that took its place sounded mostly the same, and was overplayed on top of that. I bought “Nevermind” by Nirvana on CD back then, there was no reason to keep hearing songs from it on the radio for the next 30 years. Meanwhile there’s been some great synth-based music that’s been ignored; Pet Shop Boys continue to put out brilliant material but it gets zero airplay. It’s likely the whole “demographics” thing decreed that these types of music couldn’t co-exist any longer, which is a shame.

Rap kind of did the same thing to top 40 radio- before that came along, you had pop, rock, soul and even some country all together. I still hated the format because they only played songs released as singles and wouldn’t play any album tracks, but the variety was still far better than what you get today. KSFM in Sacramento was the big hit music station in the 80s but when rap got hot they played the hell out of that and now that’s about all you hear there.
 
Meanwhile there’s been some great synth-based music that’s been ignored; Pet Shop Boys continue to put out brilliant material but it gets zero airplay. It’s likely the whole “demographics” thing decreed that these types of music couldn’t co-exist any longer, which is a shame.

The main thing I see is that its very rare for an artist who had its first hits in the 80s continue to get regular hit airplay with its new music 40 years later. Regardless of how good that newer music may be. The consensus music by those artists are their earlier hits. It takes something special to make something new work.
 
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Iheart does a good job programing KOST, KBIG and KIIS in Los Angeles. They must all bill well too
They are the #1, 2 and 4 billers. #3 is KFI, also owned by that "horrible demon" iHeart.
 
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