Kroq billing

[TheBigA]

Sorry BigA, the logic is flawed.

The minute the new owner took control of KLOS, it broadened the format beyond classic rock. Why would they do that if not to improve the profitability of its newest acquisition?

To put my comment back in context, one possible reason why KROQ didn't go to classic rock (as the poster suggested) was it was already being done at KLOS and that was not the direction Audacy wanted to go.

 

[davideduardo]

David, you make this point frequently, and the weakness in this take is that most formats have disparate cores: Rock has metal and classic rock; classical has symphonic and opera; AC has soft and hot; country has legacy and modern; CHR has pop and rhythmic; just as Alternative has various groupings too (as has been discussed in this and other threads). A station's P1s learn to tolerate the "others" because they know their preferences are in the station's mix too.

But in most diverse genres, the audience like the diversity and perceives it as variety. In Alt, each group dislikes a large portion of the music one of the other groups loves. You satisfy one group, you piss off one of the others and bore to death yet another.

Polarization, not variety.

 

[MVB13]

And it didn't hurt that alt 98.7 stole kroq's pd Lisa and that alts former pd Mike the show killer aka Mike Kaplan went to NYC to program alt 92.3

Every since the show killer left alt 98.7 they have had consistently better numbers and since he has also been programming Kroq they have done worse.

Coincidence maybe but just saying...

Kaplan has ruined Alt 92.3 in NYC. ☹

 

[MarkW]

Classic rock was not useful for Audacy, and wasn't profitable for Cumulus, which is why KLOS was sold.

Did I specifically say Classic Rock? Nope.

KLOS as straight-up classic rock underbilled in large part because of who owned it. It's no secret Cumulus' sales results were a trainwreck with the Dickeys at the helm. Look at Washington, D.C. as an additional example - Mix 107.3 greatly underbilled relative to what it should had been billing for a format with those Female 25-54 numbers.

In the case of KLOS, being a standalone Cumulus FM didn't help matters with regard to pursuit of advertising dollars (790 KABC - especially back then - had such dismal numbers that it is unworthy of consideration).

What I had in mind in my earlier post was building gold rotations that included more spins devoted to artists that were successful at Active Rock and/or Modern Rock radio in the 90's & 00's, slipping in a few very high testing rock staples (such as Guns 'N Roses) and fewer spins devoted to indie/pop artists. I would go relatively deep (but not too deep), track wise, for Nirvana, Pearl Jam, RHCP and other iconic artists.

The other option for KROQ is the one Kaplan pursued - dump too-old Kevin & Bean for a morning show that (in theory) is more compatible with the audience for the music dayparts. He has made missteps along the way certainly, but my general point is keeping KROQ as-is with no substantive changes was not a viable option.

 

[johndavis]

David, you make this point frequently, and the weakness in this take is that most formats have disparate cores: Rock has metal and classic rock; classical has symphonic and opera; AC has soft and hot; country has legacy and modern; CHR has pop and rhythmic; just as Alternative has various groupings too (as has been discussed in this and other threads). A station's P1s learn to tolerate the "others" because they know their preferences are in the station's mix too.

That would be true if rock radio played both active and classic on the same station, AC radio played both soft and hot on the same station, country played both legacy and modern on the same station, or CHR played both pop and rhythmic on the same station.

They don't, because the P1s don't sit through songs they don't like.

Maybe they did when there were only 7 FMs in a market, but now with more FM choices and the infinite dial of online, they don't have to. We don't live in the 1960s anymore.

Of your example, only classical tries to be all things to all people, but that's not a commercially viable format.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Classic rock was not useful for Audacy, and wasn't profitable for Cumulus, which is why KLOS was sold.

Cumulus specializes in running unprofitable radio stations. They are among the worst owners of radio stations ever.

Take a look at their stock performance for any 5 year span, especially for the last 15 years (NASDAQ: CMLS). They are stain on the radio industry. If you invest in them, they are deadly to your portfolio.

 

[TheBigA]

Did I specifically say Classic Rock? Nope.

You said they should go in a rock direction, and the gold would be a better fit. What does that add up to?

KLOS as straight-up classic rock underbilled in large part because of who owned it. It's no secret Cumulus' sales results were a trainwreck with the Dickeys at the helm.

It may be news to you, but the Dickeys were gone as of 2015. The thing that hurt KLOS is it was a stand-alone FM in a major market. Emmis had basically the same problem for the same reason.

I would go relatively deep (but not too deep), track wise, for Nirvana, Pearl Jam, RHCP and other iconic artists.

Seems to me they did that already, and all it did was age the demo and anger the P1s.

 

[TheBigA]

Take a look at their stock performance for any 5 year span,

If stock performance is your basis for radio companies, then you're in trouble.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

If stock performance is your basis for radio companies, then you're in trouble.

You can try and convince me what radio geniuses they are if you like. I'll wait.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

It may be news to you, but the Dickeys were gone as of 2015. The thing that hurt KLOS is it was a stand-alone FM in a major market. Emmis had basically the same problem for the same reason.

Has Cumulus' operations really improved since 2015? I never thought I would say this, but maybe the Dickey's weren't the problem? Or perhaps more likely, they made such a mess that clean-up was impossible?

 

[TheBigA]

Has Cumulus' operations really improved since 2015? I never thought I would say this, but maybe the Dickey's weren't the problem? Or perhaps more likely, they made such a mess that clean-up was impossible?

Keep in mind that all radio profits were down because of covid. So it's unfair to single out one radio company when they all got socked pretty hard during the past two years. This thread is about Audacy and KROQ.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Keep in mind that all radio profits were down because of covid. So it's unfair to single out one radio company when they all got socked pretty hard during the past two years.

How does COVID explain Cumulus' lousy performance during the period of 2015-2019? This would be after the Dickey's departure and before COVID.

 

[TheBigA]

How does COVID explain Cumulus' lousy performance during the period of 2015-2019? This would be after the Dickey's departure and before COVID.

The company was stuck with over $2 billion in debt, mainly from the acquisition of Citadel & ABC Radio. They really never were able to get that under control. That's about the same amount of debt Audacy has right now. Wall Street doesn't like debt.

 

[michael hagerty]

A good portion of the KNX audience is already familiar with the term "KNX-FM" and it doesn't refer to news on the FM Dial.

Nothing stays the same and radio (sadly) often doesn't respect its own heritage, so it's not like that can't change. But for a lot of people in my age group, a "new" KNX-FM would mean the return of Grover Washington Jr., Poco, Boz Scaggs, the Alan Parsons Project and Joni Mitchell.

ChannelFlipper: It's back. They've been online for a few years now---a core group of people who were involved in the station in one way or another, back in the glory days:

https://www.knxfm93.com/

 

[TomásEstefan]

What I wanted to say earlier about the idea of KNX FM is that "KNX-FM" would be used only for legal I.D. purposes. Such as "KNX and KNX FM Newsradio 106.7 and AM 1070 Los Angeles". There would be no confusion about the original 70s and 80s
station that we all remember.

 

[michael hagerty]

What I wanted to say earlier about the idea of KNX FM is that "KNX-FM" would be used only for legal I.D. purposes. Such as "KNX and KNX FM Newsradio 106.7 and AM 1070 Los Angeles". There would be no confusion about the original 70s and 80s
station that we all remember.

I think David’s right about an FM simulcast being unlikely for the demographic reasons he gave.

But even if Audacy did a KNX simulcast, they wouldn’t necessarily change the FM call letters. In San Francisco, KCBS began simulcasting 13 years ago. The FM is still KFRC. The station is branded on air as “All News 106.9 FM and 740 AM, KCBS.”

The actual calls are only mentioned once an hour in the legal ID: “KCBS-AM. KFRC-FM and HD-1, San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose.”

Speculation is that CBS, and later Entercom/Audacy, didn’t want to risk letting the KFRC calls get into a competitor’s hands. The same logic could be applied to KROQ, although I think we’re well past the point that either set of call letters——or any set of call letters—-really matter enough to be considered an asset.

 

[TomásEstefan]

I think David’s right about an FM simulcast being unlikely for the demographic reasons he gave.

But even if Audacy did a KNX simulcast, they wouldn’t necessarily change the FM call letters. In San Francisco, KCBS began simulcasting 13 years ago. The FM is still KFRC. The station is branded on air as “All News 106.9 FM and 740 AM, KCBS.”

The actual calls are only mentioned once an hour in the legal ID: “KCBS-AM. KFRC-FM and HD-1, San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose.”

Speculation is that CBS, and later Entercom/Audacy, didn’t want to risk letting the KFRC calls get into a competitor’s hands. The same logic could be applied to KROQ, although I think we’re well past the point that either set of call letters——or any set of call letters—-really matter enough to be considered an asset.

KCBS can't, of course use KCBS-FM because they're already in use in LA.

 

[davideduardo]

KCBS can't, of course use KCBS-FM because they're already in use in LA.

Of course, they could look for a sound-alike, such as KCBF or KBBS...

 

[michael hagerty]

KCBS can't, of course use KCBS-FM because they're already in use in LA.

If they wanted to, all they’d have to do is change the L.A. FM calls. The station is known as “Jack”—no connection to the calls, and it wouldn’t suffer if tomorrow it became, for example, KJCK—-or reverted to KNX-FM.

CBS pulled the SF calls down to L.A. for FM thinking that branding the then-oldies station as “CBS-FM” would mean something.

 

[davideduardo]

If they wanted to, all they’d have to do is change the L.A. FM calls. The station is known as “Jack”—no connection to the calls, and it wouldn’t suffer if tomorrow it became, for example, KJCK—-or reverted to KNX-FM.

CBS pulled the SF calls down to L.A. for FM thinking that branding the then-oldies station as “CBS-FM” would mean something.

Even better. They could put a sound-alike in LA instead of KCBS_FM and take the matching calls to SF. It's likely not considered to be worth the cost and effort.