KGGI 99.1 a slow death?

[30james]

In the latest shares KGGI is now at a 2.1 it's been sinking slowly but surely in the shares. What can be done to salvage the "heritage" station? I remember that KGGI used to always be in the top 3 for 18-34 women and 18 to 49. Years ago What happened?

 

[davideduardo]

In the latest shares KGGI is now at a 2.1 it's been sinking slowly but surely in the shares. What can be done to salvage the "heritage" station? I remember that KGGI used to always be in the top 3 for 18-34 women and 18 to 49. Years ago What happened?

It's 4th in 18-34 in a very fragmented market at a time when most CHRs are down considerably,.

 

[radio128]

They need to bring back Bob West. He'll know what to do to bring the ratings back up.

 

[30james]

They need to bring back Bob West. He'll know what to do to bring the ratings back up.

David said its 4th in the key demo 18 to 34. I wonder how the 25 to 49 age group is doing?

 

[Todd]

It's probably too Rhythmic for the market. The heritage of that station (even in it's heyday) was somewhere in between a Mainstream and a Rhythmic station. More Dua Lipa, Ed Sheeran, Adele... basically all the Mainstream stuff that doesn't sound too alternative or Tik-Tokey would totally work. Less Capella Grey, Meek Mill, Wale and the really urban sounding stuff. Needs to sound more like an adult female station again.

 

[MarkW]

The young audience on which Rhythmic CHR has traditionally thrived is either abandoning or spending much less time with FM radio. The overall listening pie is becoming more heavily weighted toward older demos.

Urban, alternative and some CHR stations are facing similar effects.

 

[davideduardo]

It's probably too Rhythmic for the market.

It's problem is signal. While it does cover 90% of the market with a 60 dbu, it's 65 dbu and 70 dbu signals are much more limited and miss much of the market.

And the whole market is predominantly rhythmic, with 18-34 and 25-44 being nearly 70% Hispanic and Black. They don't want to hear alternative rock crossovers. The don't want to hear the songs that get great response in Fargo and Knoxville.

The heritage of that station (even in it's heyday) was somewhere in between a Mainstream and a Rhythmic station. More Dua Lipa, Ed Sheeran, Adele... basically all the Mainstream stuff that doesn't sound too alternative or Tik-Tokey would totally work.

Should be even less mainstream.

Less Capella Grey, Meek Mill, Wale and the really urban sounding stuff. Needs to sound more like an adult female station again.

The urban stuff is fine.

 

[henry]

Saw a reddit thread this week (granted, that crowd is probably 25-34) complaining how stale hip-hop is right now. Aren't rhythmic CHRs going through a rough patch nationally?

I've been listening to 99.1 less and less... but I suspect that has more to do with me aging and less to do with 99.1. (I'm aging into KDAY pretty nicely).

 

[Phil Harmonic]

Westicals, that's who they need... Bob West! Station needs some vibe, remove the negatives....

 

[MarkW]

Since when does KGGI have a signal problem in the Inland Empire?

This station used to grab a 4 share in the beauty pageant numbers effortlessly.

 

[victorres43]

Kind of surprising that KIIS-FM is beating KGGI as of late in Riverside, considering that KIIS-FM barely acknowledges listeners from the Inland Empire. Even KBIG is beating them, and KBIG isn't necessarily a rhythmic-leaning Hot AC like WKTU.

 

[davideduardo]

Since when does KGGI have a signal problem in the Inland Empire?

It has what I would call a signal deficiency. The 60 dbu covers about 80% of the market, but it has the issue of too little power in a reduction done to get better height. When stations have actual RF under perhaps 4 to 5 kw, you end up with a relatively weak signal over a broader area.

I've seen many of these... 600 watts on the ESB in NYC where just a mile from the site you could not hear it inside buildings. Or about 700 watts at a major foothill location in LA... almost no ratings but when moved to 6 kw at 100 meters in the community, oit started getting over a 2 share in the LA book.

KGGI was between a rock and a mountain place. Located lower the terrain was rough enough to obstruct in many populated areas and to overcome the terrain, they had to go "too" high.

This station used to grab a 4 share in the beauty pageant numbers effortlessly.

Same coverage, greater fragmentation. And the big reason for the decline is the general ebb in listening for all CHRs, whether rhythmic, traditional or Churban. Some of that is due to the high percentage of hip hop songs that can't be played on the radio due to lyric content.

 

[davideduardo]

Kind of surprising that KIIS-FM is beating KGGI as of late in Riverside, considering that KIIS-FM barely acknowledges listeners from the Inland Empire. Even KBIG is beating them, and KBIG isn't necessarily a rhythmic-leaning Hot AC like WKTU.

And KIIS itself is way off in listening. Seacreast's former sidekick is beating him quite amply, and overall KIIS is suffering the CHR lull that has affected nearly every market.

I went back as far as September of 2020 on 18-49, and find that KGGI has been between a 4.4 and last month's 3.1 with no stability. The 4.4 in last year's Holiday book was followed by a 3.5 in January. They then went to a 4.1, and down to a 3.7, with the rest of 2021 being in the lower 3's. KIIS has moved from the high 2's late last year and early in 2021 to its range around a high 3 or even it's 4.0 in November.

So some if this looks like KIIS is the better CHR choice, but some of it has to do with where the meters were placed; more meters in the western part of them market and we have more commuters who work in LA or Orange counties and likely will listen to a stronger LA station.

 

[TomásEstefan]

Westicals, that's who they need... Bob West! Station needs some vibe, remove the negatives....

If I'm not mistaken, 20 years ago, Bob West was the actor wearing the Barney outfit!

 

[TomásEstefan]

It has what I would call a signal deficiency. The 60 dbu covers about 80% of the market, but it has the issue of too little power in a reduction done to get better height. When stations have actual RF under perhaps 4 to 5 kw, you end up with a relatively weak signal over a broader area.

I've seen many of these... 600 watts on the ESB in NYC where just a mile from the site you could not hear it inside buildings. Or about 700 watts at a major foothill location in LA... almost no ratings but when moved to 6 kw at 100 meters in the community, oit started getting over a 2 share in the LA book.

KGGI was between a rock and a mountain place. Located lower the terrain was rough enough to obstruct in many populated areas and to overcome the terrain, they had to go "too" high.

Same coverage, greater fragmentation. And the big reason for the decline is the general ebb in listening for all CHRs, whether rhythmic, traditional or Churban. Some of that is due to the high percentage of hip hop songs that can't be played on the radio due to lyric content.

We saw this same technical situation back in the 1970's when Gene Autry wanted to buy KUTE 102 (101.9). At the time KUTE was grandfathered in for years as a "Superpower Class B station" with 82 kW from Flint Peak at about 1180 ft HAAT. Coverage was at least as good or better that 98.7's signal from above Beverly Hills, but Mr Autry's condition of sale was that it be a Mt Wilson station. So an application was filed to move the station to Mt Wilson with equivalent power based on Wilson's 3000 ft HAAT. The app was rejected - the FCC said to operate from Mt Wilson power could be no more than standard class B max power which from Wilson would be about 640 Watts. Gene Autry paid 1 million dollars for the station anyway! Coverage was horrible as compared to the original 82 Kw. But down the road the FCC eventually changed their tune and let them increase power to about 5 kW. (Even though the 102.1 station in Oceanside freaked out, the FCC dismissed their objection.) It's interesting that KPCC the NPR station does so well in that they are the weakest signal on Mt Wilson with only 600 Watts, but they do have a couple of booster stations.

 

[K.M. Richards]

We saw this same technical situation back in the 1970's when Gene Autry wanted to buy KUTE 102 (101.9). At the time KUTE was grandfathered in for years as a "Superpower Class B station" with 82 kW from Flint Peak at about 1180 ft HAAT. Coverage was at least as good or better that 98.7's signal from above Beverly Hills, but Mr Autry's condition of sale was that it be a Mt Wilson station. So an application was filed to move the station to Mt Wilson with equivalent power based on Wilson's 3000 ft HAAT. The app was rejected - the FCC said to operate from Mt Wilson power could be no more than standard class B max power which from Wilson would be about 640 Watts. Gene Autry paid 1 million dollars for the station anyway! Coverage was horrible as compared to the original 82 Kw. But down the road the FCC eventually changed their tune and let them increase power to about 5 kW. (Even though the 102.1 station in Oceanside freaked out, the FCC dismissed their objection.) It's interesting that KPCC the NPR station does so well in that they are the weakest signal on Mt Wilson with only 600 Watts, but they do have a couple of booster stations.

This mangled and inaccurate timeline bothered me so much that I requested reactivation of my account with Frank and David in order to post a correction to this and other such posts where the poster appears to have relied on their memory, rather than (as I do) using the resources of David's excellent World Radio History website to find accurate information in Broadcasting's tracking of FCC actions over the years.

Here is the actual history of 101.9, from its beginning to the point where Autry sold it:

March 22, 1952 (this appears to be the most accurate date, although there were other mentions of "1951" without a specific date): Signed on with 11.6kw from Flint Peak. Upgrade to 82kw, without transmitter site change, approved six years later and while I cannot find a specific date of that being implemented, I can prove it was in place by 1961, because that was the power listed in that year's Broadcasting Yearbook.

The original licensee, Robert P. Adams, moved KUTE to Mt. Wilson with 640w in 1969 ... long before Autry came into the picture. Adams sold to Tracy Broadcasting in 1972. Tracy sold it (along with KGFJ/1230, which had the KKTT calls at the time, briefly) in 1979 ... not to Autry, but to Inner City Broadcasting. Tracy had filed for an increase to 10kw, remaining on Wilson, which was still pending when Inner City took ownership; in 1985, the FCC finally rejected that application and Inner City filed for 2.36kw and that was rejected within a few months.

Autry bought KUTE in 1987 (long after "the 70s" claimed above) from Inner City and filed to move to the Verdugo Hills with 4.4kw, but then superceded that application with one to stay at Wilson with 2.36kw. That was approved in 1989 (by which time the calls had changed to KMPC-FM, then KEDG, and KLIT), and Autry only got that by somehow proving the increase was necessary to improve coverage over the Glendale city of license.

So Autry (a) did not buy the station when the OP "remembers" he did; (b) was not responsible for it moving to Wilson, so that was not a factor in his decision to buy it; and (c) any "horrible" signal compared to the original had been in place for almost 20 years before Autry.

It took two further attempts before he got 4.8kw at Wilson ... in 1996, before he sold out the following year.

Tomás, I would strongly suggest that you undertake a little research effort before trying to reconstruct a timeline from memory.

 

[Joey1986]

This mangled and inaccurate timeline bothered me so much that I requested reactivation of my account with Frank and David in order to post a correction to this and other such posts where the poster appears to have relied on their memory, rather than (as I do) using the resources of David's excellent World Radio History website to find accurate information in Broadcasting's tracking of FCC actions over the years.

Here is the actual history of 101.9, from its beginning to the point where Autry sold it:

March 22, 1952 (this appears to be the most accurate date, although there were other mentions of "1951" without a specific date): Signed on with 11.6kw from Flint Peak. Upgrade to 82kw, without transmitter site change, approved six years later and while I cannot find a specific date of that being implemented, I can prove it was in place by 1961, because that was the power listed in that year's Broadcasting Yearbook.

The original licensee, Robert P. Adams, moved KUTE to Mt. Wilson with 640w in 1969 ... long before Autry came into the picture. Adams sold to Tracy Broadcasting in 1972. Tracy sold it (along with KGFJ/1230, which had the KKTT calls at the time, briefly) in 1979 ... not to Autry, but to Inner City Broadcasting. Tracy had filed for an increase to 10kw, remaining on Wilson, which was still pending when Inner City took ownership; in 1985, the FCC finally rejected that application and Inner City filed for 2.36kw and that was rejected within a few months.

Autry bought KUTE in 1987 (long after "the 70s" claimed above) from Inner City and filed to move to the Verdugo Hills with 4.4kw, but then superceded that application with one to stay at Wilson with 2.36kw. That was approved in 1989 (by which time the calls had changed to KMPC-FM, then KEDG, and KLIT), and Autry only got that by somehow proving the increase was necessary to improve coverage over the Glendale city of license.

So Autry (a) did not buy the station when the OP "remembers" he did; (b) was not responsible for it moving to Wilson, so that was not a factor in his decision to buy it; and (c) any "horrible" signal compared to the original had been in place for almost 20 years before Autry.

It took two further attempts before he got 4.8kw at Wilson ... in 1996, before he sold out the following year.

Tomás, I would strongly suggest that you undertake a little research effort before trying to reconstruct a timeline from memory.

In defense of Tomás, we’re all human. We all make mistakes.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

This mangled and inaccurate timeline bothered me so much that I requested reactivation of my account with Frank and David in order to post a correction to this and other such posts where the poster appears to have relied on their memory, rather than (as I do) using the resources of David's excellent World Radio History website to find accurate information in Broadcasting's tracking of FCC actions over the years.

Here is the actual history of 101.9, from its beginning to the point where Autry sold it:

March 22, 1952 (this appears to be the most accurate date, although there were other mentions of "1951" without a specific date): Signed on with 11.6kw from Flint Peak. Upgrade to 82kw, without transmitter site change, approved six years later and while I cannot find a specific date of that being implemented, I can prove it was in place by 1961, because that was the power listed in that year's Broadcasting Yearbook.

The original licensee, Robert P. Adams, moved KUTE to Mt. Wilson with 640w in 1969 ... long before Autry came into the picture. Adams sold to Tracy Broadcasting in 1972. Tracy sold it (along with KGFJ/1230, which had the KKTT calls at the time, briefly) in 1979 ... not to Autry, but to Inner City Broadcasting. Tracy had filed for an increase to 10kw, remaining on Wilson, which was still pending when Inner City took ownership; in 1985, the FCC finally rejected that application and Inner City filed for 2.36kw and that was rejected within a few months.

Autry bought KUTE in 1987 (long after "the 70s" claimed above) from Inner City and filed to move to the Verdugo Hills with 4.4kw, but then superceded that application with one to stay at Wilson with 2.36kw. That was approved in 1989 (by which time the calls had changed to KMPC-FM, then KEDG, and KLIT), and Autry only got that by somehow proving the increase was necessary to improve coverage over the Glendale city of license.

So Autry (a) did not buy the station when the OP "remembers" he did; (b) was not responsible for it moving to Wilson, so that was not a factor in his decision to buy it; and (c) any "horrible" signal compared to the original had been in place for almost 20 years before Autry.

It took two further attempts before he got 4.8kw at Wilson ... in 1996, before he sold out the following year.

Tomás, I would strongly suggest that you undertake a little research effort before trying to reconstruct a timeline from memory.

KMR, it has been a long time. Welcome back.

But I would also defend Tomas. As has been explained before, this is a radio discussion site, not an authoritative source for radio history.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Discussion is one thing. Posting misstatements of fact is another. I do follow your logic, but too many people read posts worded as fact on a discussion site and think that's the real story. I'm just going to try to prevent that happening where I can.

I'm motivated by the fact that I debunked a lot of "common knowledge" myths in my writings at the UHF History site, including the infamous WJMY Detroit station ID slide and KCST in San Diego being forced off the air by a fire. In neither case were the commonly accepted facts correct, and to be honest until David's archives and the newspaper archive sites were created (relatively recently, in the whole scheme of things) there was no good way to find and correct those errors. I'm also of the opinion that discussions are improved by access to fact-checked information rather than relying on what someone remembers. I don't always remember things 100% accurately either, so I appreciate having the resources to check where my memory is faulty.

So I intend to remain in lurk mode until and unless something needs correcting. Nothing more.

But thanks for the WB, Flipper.

 

[davideduardo]

KMR, it has been a long time. Welcome back.

But I would also defend Tomas. As has been explained before, this is a radio discussion site, not an authoritative source for radio history.

Unfortunately, inaccurate information easily converts into "urban legend" and then "fact".

One of the reasons I started www.worldradiohistory.com was to make available data that is accurate as there is so much erroneous material wandering around the Internet.

By my estimate, 75% of radio station history Wikipedia listings have at least one significant errror.