-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Kroq billing
- Thread starter 30james
- Start date
What would David's motivation be to lie to you about something like that?
Who said anything about lying? I didn't read that at all.
Exactly. I was merely questioning the accuracy / currency of the data, which he obviously obtained from a third party source. I believe there is zero chance he would intentionally misrepresent something of that nature. He has freely shared great info on this site on innumerable occasions, and I very much look forward to reading his insights!
I suspect real time data, accurately reported, would show KAMP to be a weaker biller. I could certainly be mistaken. If The Wave is indeed weaker, than either Audacy's sale force has no idea how to properly sell that format or a significant cohort of advertisers are bigoted.
I suspect real time data, accurately reported, would show KAMP to be a weaker biller. I could certainly be mistaken. If The Wave is indeed weaker, than either Audacy's sale force has no idea how to properly sell that format or a significant cohort of advertisers are bigoted.
Agree that it seems like The Wave should be higher, but I suspect that their audience skews relatively old. I recall David mentioning that a few months back that they had placed #12 in A25-54, despite being Top 5 6+ in that month. While eschewing formatic conventions makes for a fascinating listen and a smart reflection of LA's complex demographic mosaic, I suspect that a number of advertisers simply don't get it ("Urban AC, but with The Police and Christina Aguilera?") And as you suggest, there is also likely some (unfortunate) racial prejudice at work.
KROQ's brand and history likely still generate *some* residual revenue in excess of what their current ratings command. As for KNOU, CHR is an easier format than most to sell, and I imagine that their in-demo rankings aren't far off from The Wave's... but I concur that they really shouldn't be outbilling 94.7.
I have to imagine K-Earth is the top biller in that building, and one of the top in the market. If not, I have some serious questions.
KROQ's brand and history likely still generate *some* residual revenue in excess of what their current ratings command. As for KNOU, CHR is an easier format than most to sell, and I imagine that their in-demo rankings aren't far off from The Wave's... but I concur that they really shouldn't be outbilling 94.7.
I have to imagine K-Earth is the top biller in that building, and one of the top in the market. If not, I have some serious questions.
Last edited:
There's something you learn real fast about selling radio advertising: you talk about how the client benefits. I can't recall the ast time I ever mentioned the format or details on programming. It was all about we hit that demographic and here's what I think we can bring to your door. People selling radio that don't know how to sell are people that don't know the subject matter is always how the business will benefit. And you can that that to the bank!
Exactly. While I can not attribute the source, it is the industry standard.
Not everything today involves race. In the case of The Wave, the station is very broad in age appeal, but does not rank as well in specific targets such as 35-44 or 25-34. So when a narrow target buy comes up, they either don’t get on it or have to adjust the rate to get the desired CPP.
Billion dollar time-to-declare bankruptcy again big corporate radio question, BigA. Translation: all bull aside, the younger demos aren’t embracing radio and the older listeners that did are dying. Income is still obviously skewed to older listeners. Rock, Alt, even CHR are all in similar situations as you describe above. This is a real crossroad. Add to it an obvious economic change ahead and we’re possibly heading into those icebergs on the radio Titanic. Leadership is an absolute now. And it is somewhat uncharted territory with attacks from more fronts than ever.
As rock goes...it is pretty bewildering to think your financial success is better served playing the tried and true hits we’ve all heard a trillion times, 90 percent of which the artists are sadly no longer with us, than trying to find a listenable playlist that a decent sized audience will embrace of current songs up to a decade old. So, how would any rock style format tweak or change possibly win for any length to build strength in LA.
Last edited:
Wow, that's pretty cut & dried, Tibbs. No room for middle ground. Allow me to give you some: The younger demos aren't embracing radio the same way their parents did. Which follows that the older listeners, those who grew up in the 60s & 70s, didn't embrace the same kind of radio that their parents did. Radio drama died when the generation that grew up with it died. Are you with me so far?
Every generation brings its own take on culture and the media. That applies to radio, and it also applies to formats. So the rock radio format is struggling because the new musicians can't improve on what was done previously. I think we're seeing that in alternative as well, although they may have another few years before they fall off the deep end. Somewhere there's a 19 year old Jimi Hendrix who's playing music we've never heard of. But how will that music get embraced and publicized? On a reality TV show? On Spotify? On KROQ? That's the billion dollar question, because they're all trying.
The future won't look like the past.
From the younger demos I've observed a modicum of embracing of radio - specifically SiriusXM, and its niche channels. Rhapsody earlier this century, and Spotify now, have taught younger demos you can hear what you want; when you want. SXM's niche channels come closest to delivering on that promise - be it a particular genre, a particular artist, or a particular time period.
The futures so bright I gotta wear shades to quote some Tim buck three
Right. Radio has to deal with something it didn't have to in previous generations - competition. The inherent limitation of radio is what BigA talks about all the time - it is a common-denominator product, designed to have the widest cross-appeal possible, even within a given format. In the past, that was a problem for listeners but not for radio and for the same reason - the competitive options were very limited and most of the time, mirroring the original choice, thus listeners were stuck and radio liked it that way.
Now it is easy to either pick or program your own station that matches your own distinct preferences, or (like I do) pick the satelite option and, by Channelflipping often between well over a dozen stations and formats, create my own niche programming. SiriusXM doesn't care which of their formats I listen to so long as I pay the monthly fee. Radio DOES care what format or station I listen to, because if I tune out one station and go to another, I am probably leaving one company's property and going to another. Thus they still have to stay as mass appeal as ever, their limited selection of stations/choices is a direct result of their limited bandwith. Satelite has less of those issues and online even less than that, so they can cater to individual needs in a way traditional radio simply cannot.
Satellite radio launched thirty years ago and still has only 30-35 million subscribers. (I waffle because subscriptions are what the company reports, and those aren't all individual subscribers -- some are multiple subscriptions by the same person, others aren't people at all but rather activated radios in unsold vehicles on dealer lots, never listened to but still contributing to the company's bottom line.) SiriusXM is hardly a serious competitor yet and may never be.
You're assuming 1 subscription = 1 listener, or in certain instances, multiple subscriptions = 1 listener.
A fair number of those subscriptions are businesses. Others are Roku or Dish Network household users. Yet others are automobiles used by multiple family members.
I have a feeling exposure, in terms of number of persons, is substantially larger than the subscription count.
While Sirius XM may not be a serious threat to FM radio's survivability, its financial performance is relatively strong and it has endured the pandemic quite well (unlike terrestrial radio). Sirius XM generates nearly 2.5 times the revenue on an annualized basis that iHM generates. Of course, the pandemic has served to widen the disparity.
Good points. Of course, not all those listeners are listening to the music channels heavily, or in some cases at all. News, talk, sports and other spoken-word programming attract plenty of subscribers, even the TV simulcasts, as frustrating as some of them can be with their references to things the listener can't see. I wouldn't be surprised if there are millions of subscribers who never listen to the music channels.
The cars on dealer lots are not paying users. In fact, with the "free trial" period of up to a full year, there are quite a few million vehicles with "active" but not "paying" subscriptions. In fact, the entire car sales chain makes money from Sirius/XM. Manufacturers get a cut of the subscriptions in their cars, and some is (or was if that has changed) passed on to the dealer.
As mentioned, an in-car, in-home or workplace subscription may affect more people. However, if you look at drive time traffic in a major metro, most cars have a single person in them. And in most households that can afford a subscription, each member has their own car today.
- Status