Boston Radio Ratings November 2021

[MarkW]

Beasley is leaving potential share on the table as far as Rock 92.9 is concerned.

I agree with the earlier proposal for the station to adopt a sound that respects the legacy of WBCN, albeit updated for the year 2021.

The playlist is just a trainwreck. "Intergalactic" by Beastie Boys into "Mama Kin" by Aerosmith??? You can definitely play both songs on the station, but those songs should never be played next to each other!

The station should be playing 90's, 00's and a select number of currents & recurrents predominantly. The mish mash of one song from the 80's - followed by an alt hit from the 90's - followed by another song from the 80's - followed by an alt hit from the 90's just doesn't sound good.

 

[Least]

The WBCN license is the WWBX license. Same FCC facility ID number. The calls changed from WBCN to WBMX and then to WWBX.

The WBMX 98.5 license is the WBZ-FM license. Same facility ID number. The calls changed from WBMX to WBZ-FM.

Without reading the sale contract for WBZ-FM in full, there is no way for any of us to say what was or was not included as intellectual property. I am not a lawyer but I think it's a stretch to think that the sale would have conveyed any of the IP assets of the old WBCN, since that license stayed with CBS as WBMX 104.1.

If CBS retained all of that as you and Big A state, that makes sense. I'm going off the fore mentioned use of some of the IP on Beasley owned stations and programs and that (for lack of a professional explanation) Mix moved to 104.1 and the WBCN license, while The Rock of Boston format moved to 98.5 HD-2. That format was discontinued when Beasley assumed ownership, which I theorize wasn't due to ownership issues, but rather redundancy with Beasley running WBOS. Had Audacy traded WEEI-FM instead, I theorize that The Rock of Boston would still go away because of the redundancy with WAAF.

 

[Methuselah]

I have summoned all the self contol the Nuns rammed into me 50 years ago in order to resist posting the plethora of incredibly ridiculious statements CK made over the last two weeks.

On the other hand, Kuhner did shine in his unscripted, impromptu interview with Lin Wood when Wood called unannounced into Kuhner's show a couple weeks ago. (Despite what one may think of Lin Wood is irrelevant, how Kuhner was able to engage in a 30+ minute interview with no prep is a testament to his true abilities, which we see too little of in exchange for the low-brow stuff).

Regardless of Kuhner's drama queen antics, funny voices and low-brow commentary (all of which I think detract from his show to cater to a lowest-common-denominator), its aspects of his show, like that (the Wood interview and subsequent analysis/commentary), which make me a regular listener. I've often stated Kuhner's political analysis and commentary is quite good (other than the constant calls to IMPEACH! IMPEACH! for every slightest thing, which is nothing more than his equivalent of throwing red meat to his local listener base), its the antics/etc which I think he does to cater to local audience which hold him back from "going national, baaaay-beee"

 

[Deleted User]

I am going to be 63 next week, so I remember what I consider the glory days of WBCN

IMHO we can all wax nostalgic about the WBCN of the 70's and early 80's (or pick your favorite era) but the reality is the BCN of old doesn't work in today's radio environment.

WBCN is like the hot girl in high school you wanted... she was smoking hot and you have fond memories of her in her glory days, but she showed up at the HS Reunion looking like Kathy Griffin.

Some things do not age as well as we think they will.

I can say the same thing about WRKO back in it's Big 68 days, I love listening to the airchecks but it would not translate well into today's listener expectations.... the same reason I could not stand Cousin Brucie when he was on SXM... the act does not age well

 

[TheBigA]

If they moved said property to a new frequency and license, then sold or traded said license to a new owner, yes you would inherent that intellectual property.

Only if it's in the contract. When Entercom bought CBS Radio, the contract was clear about what intellectual property was included. It did NOT include call letters that were duplicated by CBS TV stations. So at some point, WCBS-AM & FM may have to change those call letters or may have to renew the marketing agreement that gives them access. When Disney sold ABC Radio to Citadel, there was a time limit on how long they could use the ABC name with the radio network. When that time ran out, the ABC Radio Network became Cumulus Media, and Disney re-launched the ABC Radio Network using SkyView.

 

[Wimmmex]

If they moved said property to a new frequency and license, then sold or traded said license to a new owner, yes you would inherent that intellectual property. That's this situation. S

Depends what part of the business they are buying. A license purchase doesn't come automatically with any "intellectual property", nor real estate, nor equipment, etc. Unless someone know what was in the purchase and sale agreement, no one knows for sure what was included.

 

[Least]

Only if it's in the contract. When Entercom bought CBS Radio, the contract was clear about what intellectual property was included. It did NOT include call letters that were duplicated by CBS TV stations. So at some point, WCBS-AM & FM may have to change those call letters or may have to renew the marketing agreement that gives them access. When Disney sold ABC Radio to Citadel, there was a time limit on how long they could use the ABC name with the radio network. When that time ran out, the ABC Radio Network became Cumulus Media, and Disney re-launched the ABC Radio Network using SkyView.

I think it is sometime in the 2030s that names like WCBS, KCBS, WBZ etc has to change calls. If WBCN isn't included, which I don't think it (as CBS traded 1660 WBCN-AM before the merger), I can see the Sports Hub taking WBOS and 92.9 taking a new name (perhaps WBCN), or 92.9 staying with WBOS and The Sports Hub taking a new set of calls.

 

[TheBigA]

I think it is sometime in the 2030s that names like WCBS, KCBS, WBZ etc has to change calls. If WBCN isn't included,

Neither is WEEI. Here's an article that spells out the terms in the contract:

WCBS and KCBS Calls Will Stay Put at Entercom.

Legendary call letters, including WCBS and KCBS, will continue to fly high as the branding, domain names and call signs for the radio stations they’re synonymous with – long after

www.insideradio.com

But you talk about "intellectual property," and this is an aspect of that.

 

[Least]

Depends what part of the business they are buying. A license purchase doesn't come automatically with any "intellectual property", nor real estate, nor equipment, etc. Unless someone know what was in the purchase and sale agreement, no one knows for sure what was included.

To that I agree, and my statement wasn't ever about the license to 104.1. Beasley did take ownership of The Sports Hub and the 98.5 license. As Big A pointed out CBS retains ownership of the WBZ calls because of WBZ-TV. It was about the items produced when WWBX was WBCN. My understanding is those items transferred to the WBZ-FM license. If CBS didn't specifically retain ownership, I didn't see anywhere in the trade between (then) Entercom and Beasley where (now) Audacy retained ownership. As Beasley controls the calls through their Florida AM, that they could return them to Boston, and we have shows on Beasley stations already paying some homage to WBCN. The same as Greater Media revised the WROR calls on 105.7 or the way that the WKTU calls were revised on 103.5 in New York.

Now, Big A could be accurate and CBS could have donated said items, which would explain how T&R and Hardy are using the WBCN produced content. I just come with the deduction that if Audacy owned the items produced on WBCN, those productions couldn't be played on Beasley owned stations.

 

[Least]

Neither is WEEI. Here's an article that spells out the terms in the contract:

WCBS and KCBS Calls Will Stay Put at Entercom.

Legendary call letters, including WCBS and KCBS, will continue to fly high as the branding, domain names and call signs for the radio stations they’re synonymous with – long after

www.insideradio.com

But you talk about "intellectual property," and this is an aspect of that.

This is the article that I remember reading, but it states specifically stations under CBS's ownership that shares calls with CBS owned TV stations. There isn't a WBCN-TV. Would this fall under that? Again, CBS traded the station in Charlotte where the calls were parked, long before the merger with Entercom. I don't think that falls under that. This is one of the more unique aftermaths of the CBS-Entercom merger.

 

[Least]

I am going to be 63 next week, so I remember what I consider the glory days of WBCN

IMHO we can all wax nostalgic about the WBCN of the 70's and early 80's (or pick your favorite era) but the reality is the BCN of old doesn't work in today's radio environment.

WBCN is like the hot girl in high school you wanted... she was smoking hot and you have fond memories of her in her glory days, but she showed up at the HS Reunion looking like Kathy Griffin.

Some things do not age as well as we think they will.

I can say the same thing about WRKO back in it's Big 68 days, I love listening to the airchecks but it would not translate well into today's listener expectations.... the same reason I could not stand Cousin Brucie when he was on SXM... the act does not age well

I stated that in my earlier posts back in the thread. The discussion originated when one of two separate suggestions was to flip WBOS to active rock in the same manner as one of Beasley's other two heritage rock stations. My reply was that although foolish, the only way that could possibly work was to revive the WBCN calls and identity, as Beasley controls them. The reasoning was that the only rock stations currently working are heritage stations, and WBOS isn't a heritage rock station. It's heritage calls, but has flipped to many formats over the years. Yet, in Boston, WBCN is historically a heratige rock station. With that, I did state that it would be foolish to do so, and I don't think it would work in the long run. I suggested to either foolishly change the identity to "WBCN" or to more logically to lean on WBCN's legacy for nostalgia, making WBOS a successor to it. That's because they currently have two of WBCN's DJs on the same dayparts that were respectively hosting on WBCN. This would be the same as The Pike is using Mike Hsu and Mistress Carrie to make it a spiritual successor to WAAF; or as Boston.com hired the WFNX DJs to make (then) RadioBDC a spiritual successor to WFNX. The only difference is that RadioBDC and The Pike did so much sooner to WFNX's and WAAF's flips than WBOS could to WBCN if they chose to go down that road. I actually was more interested in Retro's second suggestion of a 90s hits station, just with the tweak of being 90s and beyond.

The debate then shifted to who actually controls the intellectual property of WBCN (for the lack of a better term), to which I observe Beasley to do so based on the fore mentioned evidence.

 

[QED]

They like football in Chicago and Atlanta too but neither have a sports station that does anything close to WBZ/FM ratings. The drive time shows must have outstanding numbers. No wonder Fred doesn't hate the Patriots as much as last season.

 

[nowradioguy]

Only if it's in the contract. When Entercom bought CBS Radio, the contract was clear about what intellectual property was included. It did NOT include call letters that were duplicated by CBS TV stations. So at some point, WCBS-AM & FM may have to change those call letters or may have to renew the marketing agreement that gives them access. When Disney sold ABC Radio to Citadel, there was a time limit on how long they could use the ABC name with the radio network. When that time ran out, the ABC Radio Network became Cumulus Media, and Disney re-launched the ABC Radio Network using SkyView.

I copied this from the official document
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/813828/000119312517029329/d337391dex22.htm
for the CBS-Entercom transfer:

10​	Term and Termination ​

10.1 Term. Except as otherwise set forth in Section 10.2, this Agreement shall begin on the Effective Date and be in effect:

(a) (x) until 20 years after the Effective Date with respect to the license to use the WCBS and KCBS Licensed Property for all uses including as and to the extent used as Trademarks and in the Radio Station Call Letters, Radio Station Branding and Domain Names; and perpetually with respect to the license to use the KDKA, WBBM, KYW, WBZ, WCCO, WJZ and WWJ Licensed Property for all uses including as and to the extent used as Trademarks and in the Radio Station Call Letters, Radio Station Branding and Domain Names (the applicable term that applies with respect to each such license set forth in this clause (a), the “Term”); and

(b) in its entirety upon the expiration of the Terms of all of the Licensed Properties (the “Full Term”).

I'm no attorney, but it looks to me that stations such as WBZ and the other former CBS O&O RADIO properties for which the letters "CBS" are not part of the call sign can keep their call letters "perpetually".

​

 

[MassMusicMan]

Beasley should put WBOS out of it's misery.

They were top ten with adult men. I thought you were one of the smart people in this forum.

 

[MassMusicMan]

Also, what if they dumped Dave and Chuck for a local morning show

They do exceedingly well with their target, and they engender tremendous fan passion.

 

[Least]

They do exceedingly well with their target, and they engender tremendous fan passion.

What is their target and the numbers? We don't get that info from the public Nielson numbers. Also, can you describe "well" in relation to their competition in the Boston market specifically? I heard they perform well in their home market (Detroit), but don't know much about the Boston ratings.

 

[bostonradio]

Beasley is leaving potential share on the table as far as Rock 92.9 is concerned.

I agree with the earlier proposal for the station to adopt a sound that respects the legacy of WBCN, albeit updated for the year 2021.

The playlist is just a trainwreck. "Intergalactic" by Beastie Boys into "Mama Kin" by Aerosmith??? You can definitely play both songs on the station, but those songs should never be played next to each other!

The station should be playing 90's, 00's and a select number of currents & recurrents predominantly. The mish mash of one song from the 80's - followed by an alt hit from the 90's - followed by another song from the 80's - followed by an alt hit from the 90's just doesn't sound good.

in the November book they were 6th station in a 6-station group that targets 25-54 male listeners in Boston(98.5, 100.7, 93.7, 105.7, 680) although their morning show(syndicated) does really well(2nd behind T&R). kind of reminds of wbcn days when listeners from other station's formats flocked for howard and no one really cared about the rest of the broadcast day......

 

[Least]

in the November book they were 6th station in a 6-station group that targets 25-54 male listeners in Boston(98.5, 100.7, 93.7, 105.7, 680) although their morning show(syndicated) does really well(2nd behind T&R). kind of reminds of wbcn days when listeners from other station's formats flocked for howard and no one really cared about the rest of the broadcast day......

That answers my above question. With that number, would make sense to use an imported morning show and not have to pay for a full second local show. I assume some money is saved importing Dave and Chuck.

I was listening to a podcast called "Who Are These Podcasts," which is a podcast that repeats the same format of what Opie and Anthony did with their "Jocktober" bit. This particular episode featured Dave and Chuck The Freak, and included Drew from the WRIF morning show that Dave and Chuck replaced. Although the people on the podcast took turns speaking poorly of Dave and Chuck's show, including Drew, Drew was open about how his show was the dominant show in Detroit while Dave and Chuck grew as competition on 89X. He was also candid that Dave and Chuck perform well in Detroit, regardless of his personal observation of their show. That's what it is in the end.

Where I share your observation about people going to WBCN to listen to Stern, keep in mind that something with WBCN was working for CBS to keep it with the active rock format when Howard left. Many of the CBS owned rock stations flipped to talk under the Free FM format. WBCN remained as a rock station through that failed Free FM run. And only by months, it did outlast WFNY being flipped back to active rock as WXRK then flip over to Top 40 as 92.3 Now. So, I wouldn't have observed WBCN in the Stern years to be as poorly performing outside the morning show as the numbers you report WBOS to be doing.

 

[MarkW]

Thanks for the ratings info, bostonradio.

Clearly, the music selections on 92.9 are suboptimal.

 

[TheBigA]

Clearly, the music selections on 92.9 are suboptimal.

As I said in another thread, when you compare the playlists of WBOS with WZLX, it's obvious which station has more listeners.