Thanks. Seems odd, though, that the sellers would agree to a sale without the TX site.
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Good Karma buys WMVP (1000)
- Thread starter tvnut
- Start date
The site is worth more than all of the stations combined.
Wonder if Big Karma is thinking of moving forward with just streaming ESPN Chicago, using 100.3 HD 2 as a supplemental over the air signal and just ditching the AM signal all together.
If cost of land is the main issue, buy cheap land on the west side of Chicago, probably run 25kW during the day and 5kW at night with one tower. Cheapest way out.
If cost of land is the main issue, buy cheap land on the west side of Chicago, probably run 25kW during the day and 5kW at night with one tower. Cheapest way out.
There's no way they could get anywhere near 5 kW Night with one tower nondirectional. 25 kW with a relatively inefficient quarter wave tower, possible. You'd be lucky to get 1 kW even with two towers. The signal over the area would go from excellent to anemic.
And putting the tower as far South as Joliet/Lockport/Mokena would have even worse signal than WLS on the Northern areas of the Chicago Area, even at 50 kW, if that were even possible nondirectional.
And putting the tower as far South as Joliet/Lockport/Mokena would have even worse signal than WLS on the Northern areas of the Chicago Area, even at 50 kW, if that were even possible nondirectional.
In the end, why agree to purchase a radio station without the necessary facility to produce a good signal for people to listen to. It's a self inflicted problem created by the seller (Disney) who knows very well how difficult it is to find an alternate transmitter site. They stated as such when the filed documentation back in 2005 for the site rebuild.
The following is from the Engineering Analysis from Glen Clark & Associates back in 2005 regarding looking for an alternative transmitter site before the tower rebuild of 2006:
"As with many urban areas with high density development, there are few contiguous land parcels which have not already been converted to strip malls or residential developments. The present site exists as a contiguous parcel only because the radio station has owned the property for more than 60 years. The aerial photograph shows the concentration of development on all sides. An extensive search was made for other land parcels which could be used for WMVP and which could comply with the ratchet clause. Sites as far away as Joliet were considered. No suitable sites were found which could comply with both FCC and FAA requirements".
The following is from the Engineering Analysis from Glen Clark & Associates back in 2005 regarding looking for an alternative transmitter site before the tower rebuild of 2006:
"As with many urban areas with high density development, there are few contiguous land parcels which have not already been converted to strip malls or residential developments. The present site exists as a contiguous parcel only because the radio station has owned the property for more than 60 years. The aerial photograph shows the concentration of development on all sides. An extensive search was made for other land parcels which could be used for WMVP and which could comply with the ratchet clause. Sites as far away as Joliet were considered. No suitable sites were found which could comply with both FCC and FAA requirements".
I talked to Glen Clark about many of these same issues shortly before he sadly passed away.
I didn't know the depth to which he had been involved in Chicago Radio until my last phone conversation and correspondence by email. His involvement with WLS goes back to before 1975, and he was a staff engineer at WLS and CE of WLS-FM. He was there when WLS and WCFL were neck and neck programming and audio wise, but unfortunately, WCFL never really got consistently decent ratings as the "second" Chicago Top 40 AM. Most second Top 40 AMs in other markets lasted 8-10 years. By the time some of those went AC, their audience had grown into those slightly older demographics. As I said before, he was involved in trying to find a new location further North for WLS (Addison was the best one considered). They actually tested and ran radials on another frequency (seems like it was 1200 kHz, which was vacant at the time) with a short vertical antenna from what I heard.
I didn't know the depth to which he had been involved in Chicago Radio until my last phone conversation and correspondence by email. His involvement with WLS goes back to before 1975, and he was a staff engineer at WLS and CE of WLS-FM. He was there when WLS and WCFL were neck and neck programming and audio wise, but unfortunately, WCFL never really got consistently decent ratings as the "second" Chicago Top 40 AM. Most second Top 40 AMs in other markets lasted 8-10 years. By the time some of those went AC, their audience had grown into those slightly older demographics. As I said before, he was involved in trying to find a new location further North for WLS (Addison was the best one considered). They actually tested and ran radials on another frequency (seems like it was 1200 kHz, which was vacant at the time) with a short vertical antenna from what I heard.
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With current day reasoning that land in worth more than the radio station antenna farm, I was assuming that WLS (Citadel) would sell the Tinley Park site and diplex off of the center tower of WMVP in Downers Grove as WLS (ABC) was eying a move to Addison during the mid 70s. That would make more sense than the reverse situation that seems to be presented now.
Super 'CFL lasted about 11 years, between 1965 and 1976.
I lived in Addison in 1976-78. WMBI was (still is?) there. Looking back as much as my fading memory will allow, I don't know where WLS could have put their transmitter in that area. I remember a decade later, when the White Sox tried to move there, and environmental concerns shut it down. I would think that a radio tower would generate the same concerns.
Glen also upgraded WWJ to 50 kW DA-2 from 5 kW DA-N, WXYT to 50 kW DA-2 from 5 kW DA-N, and WFDF to 50/25 kW DA-2 from 5/1 DA-1. They weren't unqualified successes, partly due to certain arcane/esoteric FCC regulations. They do have marvelous near 20:1 D/U skywave signals with usable service over 250 miles away in the major lobes though.
The APP for WLS was for a location near Grace and Fullerton.
The APP for WLS was for a location near Grace and Fullerton.
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The discussion here so far is pretty much speculation that since the transmitter site was not included in the ESPN 1000 sale that Disney is going to sell the land off as quick as possible for profit.
It might be the case that Good Karma will lease the site from Disney until market forces determine that streaming audio is more popular than keeping an AM broadcast signal on the air.
We may be at that point already or maybe 5 to 10 years down the road. I'm not sure as of today's date if streaming (a lot of phones) or 100.2 HD2 (limited receiver availability) is more popular than tuning into AM 1000. Either way, Disney makes money from the leasing agreement and makes a larger profit when the site is eventually sold years down the road. The assumption is that AM radio as we know will be dead sometime in the next 10 to 15 years. Maybe only the 50 Kw non directional signals will be the only survivors.
If I were Good Karma, I can't see plowing a ton of money into an alternate antenna farm site that may only be used for the next 10 years before it's sold and plowed over as well.
It might be the case that Good Karma will lease the site from Disney until market forces determine that streaming audio is more popular than keeping an AM broadcast signal on the air.
We may be at that point already or maybe 5 to 10 years down the road. I'm not sure as of today's date if streaming (a lot of phones) or 100.2 HD2 (limited receiver availability) is more popular than tuning into AM 1000. Either way, Disney makes money from the leasing agreement and makes a larger profit when the site is eventually sold years down the road. The assumption is that AM radio as we know will be dead sometime in the next 10 to 15 years. Maybe only the 50 Kw non directional signals will be the only survivors.
If I were Good Karma, I can't see plowing a ton of money into an alternate antenna farm site that may only be used for the next 10 years before it's sold and plowed over as well.
However, diplexing or sharing costs on a large piece of land that can accommodate another facility may be.
The transmitter site is in the middle of a residential area in Downers Grove. It'll be a lot of money in Disney's pocket if they sell. The site is small (2 x 1 city blocks) when compared to the old WBBM site, but probably 50 or so houses can fit in that space.
50 kW blowtorches are not immune from having their land sold out from under them and shutting down. It's already happened in Indianapolis, and likely will happen in Chicago. Neither WMVP, WLS, or WGN are safe. Their land is too valuable, with WGN's site in Elk Grove being the most expensive.
The sales agreement explicitly says that GKB will need to relocate the transmitter site. It does not say by what date, but the fact that it is mentioned in the sales agreement, instead of, say a 5 year lease, suggests it is a near term concern.
It already happened in Chicago too, with WSCR and WBBM setting up a diplex.
Yes, but WBBM didn't go dark. WMVP, WLS, and especially WGN may face that possibility. Where could any of them set up a new transmitter site and keep their current power?
Considering that WCBS and WFAN, and WBBM and WSCR, share towers and are both close to 50 kW, I wonder about the feasibility of the WGN site being used and cost shared to put up additional towers for diplexing a DA for WMVP and or WLS, which would apparently need a DA tower Days to protect WDLS 900 which has a translator so is still valuable in that area, according to what Glen Clark and I talked about, sadly right before he passed away. The WGN site looks like swampy land that would be ideal for conductivity, but difficult to use for other purposes, as it would require much filling of the the swampy areas. A radio facility would largely preserve the wetland. WGN's radials go out 800 feet, and there is a self supporting AUX tower toward the SE corner of the property, looks like maybe 250 or 300 feet tall. The footprint of the DA towers would probably fit on the property, given the 984 foot wavelength of WMVP, 492 feet for the tower array like the old WCFL/WMVP tower footprint plus the radials. Look at the satellite map for the property.
Complicated, but the three stations are all Class As which should be preserved. Massive project. Lots of opportunities.
Complicated, but the three stations are all Class As which should be preserved. Massive project. Lots of opportunities.
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Only because WBBM had a relatively easy task to diplex on a co-owned tower with no directional concerns. It's not difficult to imagine WBBM being taken off the air if WSCR does not exist - WBBM probably has an audience of dozens, with WCFS getting essentially all the listening.
And the Indianapolis ratings (at least the 12+ beauty pageant) are showing that “107.5 The Fan” actually had a ratings increase after 1070 was shut down.
They're developing the old WBBM site, so I can't understand why they couldn't do the same with WGN. They're about a mile and a half apart, so the ground should be similar.
Ancient Modulation stations are to the 2020s as evening newspapers were to the 1960s: Almost totally obsolete.
I would think that Class A blowtorches nationwide would be worth preserving, but apparently that is not the case with a lot of stations. We'll find out soon enough, now that KNX Los Angeles is now on FM. That will be a harbinger of things to come if 1070's listeners abandon it for 97.1.
I would think that the lower power, high dial position AMs would be sacrificed before the <=1 MHz Class As.
Otherwise, with a net loss of facilities, they need an expanded FM Band to accommodate powerful FM replacements, not 250 watt translators. Those work in small to medium sized towns, not Chicago.
Otherwise, with a net loss of facilities, they need an expanded FM Band to accommodate powerful FM replacements, not 250 watt translators. Those work in small to medium sized towns, not Chicago.
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