890 WLS "clear channel" ??

[Dondd]

Given the weakness of WLS' signal and all the other AMs broadcasting on 890 in or close to its predicted path, I think it's fair to de-list WLS as a "clear channel."

I read thread after thread where DXers note the station's pathetic coverage.

I do recall it use to boom into places like Nebraska, Kansas and Texas at night.
Today, it's but a whimper.

Tonight, WLS' signal is a disgrace. You can barely hear it under Spanish programming. But one has to listen closely.
It's like that most nights. Though I must say I did get it the other night. And it was a little better than usual and seemed consistent. I didn't listen long, though. Kim Kommando, which is heard in almost every other market... Wall to wall syndication for a "city grade" signal like 890....

Not that the nighttime programming is of any interest. The nasally Mark Levin lecturing people on politics, but still....

 

[KeithE4]

If it still covers Cook, Dupage, Kane, and Will Counties in Illinois, and Lake and Porter Counties in Indiana with a decent signal, that's all that matters.

It never covered the north and northwest "money" suburbs all that well from Tinley Park, and had issues in parts of the city north of Irving Park Rd. When I lived in the NW 'burbs, I was easily able to null out WLS to get WCBS at night, but I was probably 40 miles from the transmitter. But it was good as long as I turned the radio to favor it.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

Given the weakness of WLS' signal and all the other AMs broadcasting on 890 in or close to its predicted path, I think it's fair to de-list WLS as a "clear channel."

I read thread after thread where DXers note the station's pathetic coverage.

I do recall it use to boom into places like Nebraska, Kansas and Texas at night.
Today, it's but a whimper.

Tonight, WLS' signal is a disgrace. You can barely hear it under Spanish programming. But one has to listen closely.
It's like that most nights. Though I must say I did get it the other night. And it was a little better than usual and seemed consistent. I didn't listen long, though. Kim Kommando, which is heard in almost every other market... Wall to wall syndication for a "city grade" signal like 890....

Not that the nighttime programming is of any interest. The nasally Mark Levin lecturing people on politics, but still....

gosh its a good thing DX'ers dont run radio stations.. youd al lgo broke in less than 6 months

A Chicago station doesnt need to be heard in freakin Nebraska, thanks to internet streaming

 

[Dondd]

Who said anyone wanted to run the station?
Fact is, it's a shadow of its former self, in its lackluster signal and mediocre nighttime programming.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

Who said anyone wanted to run the station?
Fact is, it's a shadow of its former self, in its lackluster signal and mediocre nighttime programming.

it obviously pays the bills!

 

[gr8oldies]

Who said anyone wanted to run the station?
Fact is, it's a shadow of its former self, in its lackluster signal and mediocre nighttime programming.

In the 60s and 70s, we didn't have Cuba blasting in on 890. I lived in the Lafayette IN area and WLS was the strongest of the traditional Chicago clears, with their transmitter on the southeastern part of the metro area. When the Cuban 890 signed on, it was stronger than now, and running Radio Taino with English language programming geared to American and Canadian tourists. WCBS had a traffic sounder every 10 minutes and it would splatter over.

I agree on the night-time programming, Levin screeching in a high pitch that "Donald Trump is as pure as the driven snow" isn't something I like hearing. I can remember WLS being live until as late as 2am (except for Rush).

Other than DXers, no one cares if 890 is a Clear Channel. Most of what has happened is beyond WLS's control, except for probably rusted out ground radials.

 

[ZantennaG1]

Given the weakness of WLS' signal and all the other AMs broadcasting on 890 in or close to its predicted path, I think it's fair to de-list WLS as a "clear channel."

I read thread after thread where DXers note the station's pathetic coverage.

I do recall it use to boom into places like Nebraska, Kansas and Texas at night.
Today, it's but a whimper.

Tonight, WLS' signal is a disgrace. You can barely hear it under Spanish programming. But one has to listen closely.
It's like that most nights. Though I must say I did get it the other night. And it was a little better than usual and seemed consistent. I didn't listen long, though. Kim Kommando, which is heard in almost every other market... Wall to wall syndication for a "city grade" signal like 890....

Not that the nighttime programming is of any interest. The nasally Mark Levin lecturing people on politics, but still....

WLS still makes it into Cheyenne, WY (890 miles) with a decent signal despite often being overwhelmed by splatter by KRVN (only 285 miles), but I think the main issue for WLS that there is a lot more interference nowadays; the Harris DX transmitter is top of it's class, but noise wins out every-time, and there wasn't all this RFI in 1989 when the "digital solid-state transmitter" rolled out. By the way, d***it, Cuba, you just had to block our WLS. WCBS receives some blame as well, but WLS infringes on WCBS as well.

 

[tvnut]

I live about 8 miles from the WLS transmitter. Once in the middle of farmland, it today has a couple of hotels on property next door to the west and a big community church next door to the east (can't imagine the shielding on the PA system inside it).
I do not know how much, if any, the groundwave or potential skywave signal has been affected by the development. (Similarly, there's been development the last 10 years around the WSCR/WBBM site, which has existed since the 1930s, and those signals still boom out there.)
I have heard 890 on sunrise skip in Augusta, Ga.
I have heard 890 at night in central Nebraska, with KRVN adjacent to it.
I can pick up 890 on various SDRs across North America.
As ZantennaG1 notes, the transmitter is in tip-top shape. FEMA has helped finance recent renovations to the building, as 890 is the EAS trigger station for the Chicago area.
Dondd, a clear channel station is a clear channel station, whether you like it or not. With rare exception, I have no use for its programming either, but if I had a chance to buy it, I'm all in.
And in your case in Texas, you have two stations (KTXV Mabank, Tex., 250 watts, and KJME Fountain, Colo., 580 watts), allowed on the air at night inside the WLS 0.1 mV/m circle, so don't expect the high-fidelity signal that existed as late as the mid-1980s. Blame the FCC for that, not the engineers in Tinley Park.

 

[KeithE4]

(Similarly, there's been development the last 10 years around the WSCR/WBBM site, which has existed since the 1930s, and those signals still boom out there.)

There has been development in that part of Bloomingdale, and Glendale Heights to the south, since the 1970s. I lived in a large apartment complex in GH, about one mile from the then-WMAQ transmitter site, in 1978-79. 670 overloaded every radio I owned other than my ham rig, which was better-engineered than the average cheap radio.

 

[davideduardo]

Given the weakness of WLS' signal and all the other AMs broadcasting on 890 in or close to its predicted path, I think it's fair to de-list WLS as a "clear channel."

Clear channel stations ceased to be relevant for out-of-local market coverage when TV killed network radio an the FCC began authorizing local stations in every village in the nation.

The FCC realized that 50 kw stations mostly offered good daytime coverage of individual markets and sky wave was seldom used. So they let additional station# one each 1-A clear to serve under-serviced areas.

Remember also that in the 30’s our politicians restricted the biggest AM stations to low and medium power, so no station was intended to cover very large areas.

And, as other nations built big signalled stations, the coverage of those 1-A stations was reduced. Besides, in each local market there were signals doing the same formats as the distant ones. And TV took away most radio night listening.

So, for example, KFI in LA wants 50 kw to overcome the noise from Metrorail lines in Pasadena, not to get listeners in Quartzite or St George or Bishop.

 

[crainbebo]

Not that it matters with this far of distance, but WLS has not been heard in *years* here in eastern Washington. WBBM and WGN are relatively common, yet 890 is just UT and BC most nights (and occasionally KYWN in Idaho stays on day power). Are they no longer putting out as much power westward?
Even when I could hear WLS, they were rare compared to 780-720, which are semi-common. 780 can often overpower KKOH when Reno is nulled out.

 

[QED]

Comes in good on the Atlantic in SE Ma. On a Boston not know for DX gave it a try someone named Valdes is in for Levin. Yes Cuba is an occasional factor (not tonight).

 

[radioman148]

As was mentioned clear channel stations don't exist anymore and with todays noise levels DXing is tougher.
However, in the 1960s through the mid 80s I received WLS at night in these places, among others: Mexico, Hawaii, Puerto Rico and all over the west coast and Canada. In fact WLS WAS the most reliable of Chicago's 50KW clears back in the day. Now the area surrounding where the tower is located is no longer farmland, which was mentioned. I'm sure that has degraded WLS' signal. Also the 890 in Cuba kills it in the south. Even with all that, WLS can still be heard on some European and the Arctic SDR in winter.
I continued to hear it well into Southern California until KDXU went 24 hours in the mid 80s. I also heard it on the Hawaii SDR a few years ago. It doesn't pack the punch it once did, but it still gets out.

 

[rfry]

Below is a post of mine from Sept 2017 on another board, responding to a comment there that the radial ground system at WLS might be degraded.

WLS first installed and used 120 x 1/2-wave buried radials. Then about 15 years ago they added another set of 120 x 1/2-wave radials buried slightly less deep, and bonded the common point of each set together at the the tower base. My information source: e-mails from the recently-retired C.E. of WLS, Warren Shulz (now SK).

WLS has accurately measured their groundwave field intensity 1 km from their tower base, and shown that it meets the theoretical value expected for that distance for their tower height, carrier power, frequency, and path conductivity.

So observations about them having a weaker signal now than in "the old days" likely are based on some combination of ...

• the increasing numbers of stations using 890 kHz, and adjacent channels
• the uncertainties of varying losses over long, groundwave propagation paths
• sunspot cycles for good/bad skywave reception
• spectrum trash from "HD/IBOC" stations
• increased local r-f noise levels
• receive systems with marginal performance, and
• human perception/judgment.

Richard Fry, CPBE

 

[boombox4]

It's not just "DXers" to which better distant reception would matter. If WLS were getting out to Nebraska, it might be a sign that it's getting out better in its target territory also, i.e. Chicagoland, which I'm sure is replete with switching power devices and other RFI, and probably every extra db is needed to overcome all that.

I haven't heard WLS in a few years, but then conditions took a bit of a dive in late 2016 when the solar cycle began to hit bottom, and I haven't heard KVNS Brownsville or Rebelde on 1180 in years, either. Perhaps in 3-4 years when the cycle rises back up to snuff the farther away DX will be more audible again.

 

[Dondd]

As was mentioned clear channel stations don't exist anymore and with todays noise levels DXing is tougher.
However, in the 1960s through the mid 80s I received WLS at night in these places, among others: Mexico, Hawaii, Puerto Rico and all over the west coast and Canada. In fact WLS WAS the most reliable of Chicago's 50KW clears back in the day. Now the area surrounding where the tower is located is no longer farmland, which was mentioned. I'm sure that has degraded WLS' signal. Also the 890 in Cuba kills it in the south. Even with all that, WLS can still be heard on some European and the Arctic SDR in winter.
I continued to hear it well into Southern California until KDXU went 24 hours in the mid 80s. I also heard it on the Hawaii SDR a few years ago. It doesn't pack the punch it once did, but it still gets out.

WBBM is the most reliable here, in central Texas, followed by WGN. 670 is almost non-existent, and can only be heard occasionally. Same with 890, which is mostly buried by south of the border stations.
WBBM comes in most nights with WGN usually weak.
I now better understand the problems afflicting WLS' disappointing signal, but not its unimpressive nighttime programming.

 

[DXBob]

Here in south Overland Park, Kansas, WLS booms in most every night and is consistently the strongest of the signals from the Chicago market. WBBM is second.

Bob

 

[radioman148]

Here in south Overland Park, Kansas, WLS booms in most every night and is consistently the strongest of the signals from the Chicago market. WBBM is second.

Bob

That's the way it was in the 1960s. WLS had the best night time skywave and WBBM was second of all the Chicago blowtorches. This was especially true to the south and west. I've mentioned before that I had cousins in New Orleans that had a button set on their car radios to WLS. It came in there just like a local at night during their Top 40 days. There was no interference from Cuba back then.

 

[ZantennaG1]

It's not just "DXers" to which better distant reception would matter. If WLS were getting out to Nebraska, it might be a sign that it's getting out better in its target territory also, i.e. Chicagoland, which I'm sure is replete with switching power devices and other RFI, and probably every extra db is needed to overcome all that.

I think as David has been telling me, you need at least 15 mV/m to overcome the most strenuous RFI devices (in my town, the worst offender has to be the all electric car-wash), so any extra strength can be helpful. I suspect that in order to cut through interference, the AM station has to be strong enough to penetrate a telephone or cause the fence to arc, as opposed to just being clear.

I haven't heard WLS in a few years, but then conditions took a bit of a dive in late 2016 when the solar cycle began to hit bottom, and I haven't heard KVNS Brownsville or Rebelde on 1180 in years, either. Perhaps in 3-4 years when the cycle rises back up to snuff the farther away DX will be more audible again.

That is also a solid point, @boombox4. The solar cycle is indirectly tied to how well skywave works. Although I always thought MW Skywave worked best at the bottom of the cycle while FM E-Skip worked best at the top of the cycle.

 

[Syfy]

Given the weakness of WLS' signal and all the other AMs broadcasting on 890 in or close to its predicted path, I think it's fair to de-list WLS as a "clear channel."

I read thread after thread where DXers note the station's pathetic coverage.

I do recall it use to boom into places like Nebraska, Kansas and Texas at night.
Today, it's but a whimper.

Tonight, WLS' signal is a disgrace. You can barely hear it under Spanish programming. But one has to listen closely.
It's like that most nights. Though I must say I did get it the other night. And it was a little better than usual and seemed consistent. I didn't listen long, though. Kim Kommando, which is heard in almost every other market... Wall to wall syndication for a "city grade" signal like 890....

Not that the nighttime programming is of any interest. The nasally Mark Levin lecturing people on politics, but still....

How far are you from their coverage area?