• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

February '22 trends

As per AllAccess.com and **************** . 12+ only. Top 5 stations in Buffalo and Rochester only, plus notes as needed. Buffalo goes first...

1. WBLK/93.7 8.8(up .4)
2. WYRK/106.5 8.5(up 1.1)
3. WBEN/930 8.2(down .4)
4. WGRF/96.9 6.8(down .3)
5. WTSS/102.5 6.3(down .1)

Now, Rochester's top 5....

1. WDKX/103.9 8.4(down .1)
2. WBEE/92.5 8.2(down .2)
3. WHAM/1180 7.2(down .4)
4. WCMF/96.5 5.8(down .2)
5. WAIO/95.1 4.4(up .8)

General notes:

-WBFO and WECK were tied with a 3.3 , tied for 11th in 12+
-WEDG/103.3 has recovered nicely from that 2.4 trend in November; they had a 3.7 in this trend.
-WBUF/92.9 & WLKK/107.7 are STILL underachieving; they each notched a 1.5 .
 
Aside from WYRK stepping up a full share, and WGR taking a wobble down, most everything else looks relatively flat given this is Persons 12+. In the event readers want to graze and grouse, the report can be found at February 2022 Trends 12+ Mon-Sun, 6a-12mid
 
Last edited:
As per AllAccess.com and **************** . 12+ only. Top 5 stations in Buffalo and Rochester only, plus notes as needed. Buffalo goes first...

1. WBLK/93.7 8.8(up .4)
2. WYRK/106.5 8.5(up 1.1)
3. WBEN/930 8.2(down .4)
4. WGRF/96.9 6.8(down .3)
5. WTSS/102.5 6.3(down .1)

Now, Rochester's top 5....

1. WDKX/103.9 8.4(down .1)
2. WBEE/92.5 8.2(down .2)
3. WHAM/1180 7.2(down .4)
4. WCMF/96.5 5.8(down .2)
5. WAIO/95.1 4.4(up .8)

General notes:

-WBFO and WECK were tied with a 3.3 , tied for 11th in 12+
-WEDG/103.3 has recovered nicely from that 2.4 trend in November; they had a 3.7 in this trend.
-WBUF/92.9 & WLKK/107.7 are STILL underachieving; they each notched a 1.5 .
Tied for 10th 12 plus. Check again
 
-WBUF/92.9 & WLKK/107.7 are STILL underachieving; they each notched a 1.5 .
According to the experts here, they are performing as "Cluster Strategy". Cluster**** is more like it. The gulf between WYRK and The Wolf is Grand Canyon size. Wasn't The Wolf supposed to take 2 or 3 shares away from WYRK? Meanwhile, WBUF spirals into oblivion. Not sure what "added value" a moribund Classic Rock mess brings to the cluster...
 
The voodoo math continues......WECK has a 3.3 tied for 10th....in my calculations in raw quarter hours, WECK was a solid #8 with a 3.9, beating all of these other stations. We got weighted down almost an entire share because our listeners happen to respond more to these silly books than a 20 year old who does not even know what radio is.

I noticed that WECK beating WMSX (11th rank) was not in the notes, and you got the rank wrong....we are tied for #10 with WBFO (tax free company)- these are the stations who should be ashamed of themselves :

WLKK
WBUF
WMSX

They are letting a 1KW AM clean their clocks. Remember too, I have to pay for Nielsen, while Nielsen practices their discriminatory practices regarding white male business owners about who has to pay and who does not: The following do not pay:

WXRL
WUFO
WBFO/WNED Government grants, no taxes, listener contributions. Walk in their studios and try to picture why they would need state and federal support. It's state of the art

Glad Nielsen was sold. Now maybe I can cancel my contract
 
According to the experts here, they are performing as "Cluster Strategy". Cluster**** is more like it. The gulf between WYRK and The Wolf is Grand Canyon size. Wasn't The Wolf supposed to take 2 or 3 shares away from WYRK? Meanwhile, WBUF spirals into oblivion. Not sure what "added value" a moribund Classic Rock mess brings to the cluster...
Go back to earlier posts. I predicted the wolf would do nothing as they play the exact thing YRK plays. The may make a little more money, but there done in ratings.
 
Go back to earlier posts. I predicted the wolf would do nothing as they play the exact thing YRK plays. The may make a little more money, but there done in ratings.
I doubt that The Wolf is making more money than the previous Alternative format. It was a lateral format move. You certainly didn't mean to say they are making more money than WYRK.

Your comments about Public Radio are misleading and not correct. You still haven't learned about "weighting" for ratings. You just want what you want. WECK is not being punished by Nielsen for being "Too White"...
 
Apparently, Buddy hasn’t learned his lesson by being temporarily banned from this board. Rather than celebrating what he has achieved with WECK, he continues to wallow in grievances. Nielsen is unfair. Others get a free ride while I have to pay. All I can do is shake my head. Perhaps a permanent ban is needed. He contributes nothing to the discussion here. And I have to laugh at his criticism of public broadcasting. He must find some value in it because he purchased underwriting announcements on WBFO to advertise WECK. Some advise, Buddy. You’re an owner who has achieved success with your station. Perhaps it would be best if you do what every other station owner/manager/programmer in our market does when it comes to this board. Step away! You’re only embaarrassing yourself!
 
Last edited:
I noticed that WECK beating WMSX (11th rank) was not in the notes, and you got the rank wrong....we are tied for #10 with WBFO (tax free company)-

Keep in mind that you too could be a tax free company if you were willing to operate as a non-profit and not sell commercials.

They have nice facilities because federal law requires every dollar that comes in must be spent on their operation.

Glad Nielsen was sold. Now maybe I can cancel my contract

You can cancel any time. My expectation is they will soon raise their rates.
 
Reading select posts in this thread reminds one of lyrics from a great Four Tops oldie, "It's the same old song..."
 
Keep in mind that you too could be a tax free company if you were willing to operate as a non-profit and not sell commercials.

They have nice facilities because federal law requires every dollar that comes in must be spent on their operation.

You can cancel any time. My expectation is they will soon raise their rates.
Buddy accusing Nielsen of "discrimination" is absurd. He should look in the mirror. His on air line up is "All White Men". I don't know about his sales or office personnel, but his past comments don't indicate that he believes in diversity. An Oldies format main appeal is to Old(er) White folks. Nothing wrong with that, but you will not get Nielsen to say 20-40 year olds of different ethnic backgrounds are sending in diaries with WECK on them...
 
According to the experts here, they are performing as "Cluster Strategy". Cluster**** is more like it. The gulf between WYRK and The Wolf is Grand Canyon size. Wasn't The Wolf supposed to take 2 or 3 shares away from WYRK? Meanwhile, WBUF spirals into oblivion. Not sure what "added value" a moribund Classic Rock mess brings to the cluster...
The Wolf (107.7) was, is and will always be a Wyoming County station. It’s not in the Metro. It has never really had much success with the multiple formats its had over the many years. How does a station that essentially plays the same music as the leader (WYRK) break through? What is the unique reason to listen to a station with a bad signal in the metro that does zero in visibility and plays the same music as WYRK? WYRK will win based more on the fact it’s still, in a way, the only game in town.

WBUF was only successful in the 80s and the various formats have been fads. It has a great signal but hasn’t done much but switch the songs in the jukebox every couple of years.

It is probably also getting harder when you make a format change radio, because people just don’t care anymore.
 
How does a station that essentially plays the same music as the leader (WYRK) break through?

Somehow this is not a problem in other markets, including many that are smaller than Buffalo. Playing the "same music" doesn't matter, as long as it's the music a large audience wants to hear. The music isn't the only reason people listen to WYRK. But as I've said before, you folks are basing success for this station on the published numbers you see, and the people running the station are aiming at different goalposts. Audacy appears to be building a national platform for the format, similar to what iHeart has. They just opened a Nashville studio/office, and they will be creating some unique content & promotions that will separate them from WYRK.

See below article:


She will be relocating to Nashville at the end of May and leading Audacy’s Hard Rock studio and performance space development there while working directly with Fitzsimmons and Country Format VP Tim Roberts on developing Country projects and platforms.
 
Last edited:
Buddy accusing Nielsen of "discrimination" is absurd. He should look in the mirror. His on air line up is "All White Men". I don't know about his sales or office personnel, but his past comments don't indicate that he believes in diversity. An Oldies format main appeal is to Old(er) White folks. Nothing wrong with that, but you will not get Nielsen to say 20-40 year olds of different ethnic backgrounds are sending in diaries with WECK on them...
Your comments are understandable and I don’t disagree. However, I think Mr. Shula is complaining about the fact that diaries are weighed-up amongst certain demos. For example fewer and fewer people in the 20 to 40 year old range are listening to the radio at all, however Nielsen tries to wear them up to match the population of the market. I believe what he is saying is that if there aren’t as many people in that age group even listening to the radio, how can they waive them up to the overall metro population in the demo. I don’t think he is saying that 20-40 year olds should be writing down WECK. If I’m hearing him correctly, I think he means that they shouldn’t make it look like there are more people in that age group listening to radio in the first place, and then to act like there are hurts other stations. I don’t know how he is doing his math and don’t understand it, but in concept he has a point.

Here in Canada, we have a similar way to measure audience, however it is done electronically, and it is much more transparent in terms of how they get about the number.
 
Somehow this is not a problem in other markets, including many that are smaller than Buffalo. Playing the "same music" doesn't matter, as long as it's the music a large audience wants to hear. The music isn't the only reason people listen to WYRK. But as I've said before, you folks are basing success for this station on the published numbers you see, and the people running the station are aiming at different goalposts. Audacy appears to be building a national platform for the format, similar to what iHeart has. They just opened a Nashville studio/office, and they will be creating some unique content & promotions that will separate them from WYRK.
And, even if the station just takes a point or so from the leading country station, it reduces that competitor's "hook" on business. As a cluster strategy, that may be more valuable than it would be for a single stand-alone station.
 
Somehow this is not a problem in other markets, including many that are smaller than Buffalo. Playing the "same music" doesn't matter, as long as it's the music a large audience wants to hear. The music isn't the only reason people listen to WYRK. But as I've said before, you folks are basing success for this station on the published numbers you see, and the people running the station are aiming at different goalposts. Audacy appears to be building a national platform for the format, similar to what iHeart has. They just opened a Nashville studio/office, and they will be creating some unique content & promotions that will separate them from WYRK.
Respectfully, we are talking about radio in Buffalo. You can have a great format and program, but if someone else has a good signal and you don’t, your shares will suffer. Equally, WYRK might also do better because it has local programming. Audacy appears to be creating a national format that isn’t local. It may well work in other markets where they do have a good signal.

There will be no reason to have radio station transmitters much longer, because why try to pick up a scratchy signal from Wyoming county when you can just hear it on a smart speaker or in your car on an entertainment system stream.
 
Your comments are understandable and I don’t disagree. However, I think Mr. Shula is complaining about the fact that diaries are weighed-up amongst certain demos.

On the other hand WECK is ALSO weighted among certain demos. He's completely ignoring everyone under 50. Then he complains about how he gets treated. You get the demographic you target. That's how it works. Nielsen has to see the big picture. They have to put numbers IN CONTEXT with everyone, not just people over 50. It doesn't matter what stereotypes you may have people young or old people. None of that matters when you're doing statistics. They are 12+ numbers for a reason, while WECK is focused on 50+.

There will be no reason to have radio station transmitters much longer, because why try to pick up a scratchy signal from Wyoming county when you can just hear it on a smart speaker or in your car on an entertainment system stream.

Exactly, and since Audacy owns its own streaming platform, they're aiming at that larger national audience. Buffalo is simply a local sales office for them. While everyone is looking at the 1.5 share the station gets, the company is looking at pooling Buffalo in with other Audacy country stations for their national format platform.
 
Last edited:
And, even if the station just takes a point or so from the leading country station, it reduces that competitor's "hook" on business. As a cluster strategy, that may be more valuable than it would be for a single stand-alone station.
This is true. A station can be used as a spoiler, however anyone thinking that 107.7 will ever be a real player in this market is mistaken. The station was able to take a share as a sports station and as a rock station and previously as a country station. That makes sense, perhaps for Audacy, but I never understood it when it was privately owned. The strategy wouldn’t have been to take a share away from another station at the top. It presumably would’ve been to actually make money versus defend other stations. It was a stand alone as I recall.
 
Your comments are understandable and I don’t disagree. However, I think Mr. Shula is complaining about the fact that diaries are weighed-up amongst certain demos. For example fewer and fewer people in the 20 to 40 year old range are listening to the radio at all, however Nielsen tries to wear them up to match the population of the market.
That is not how it works.

The radio survey measures people's behaviour and includes those who listen a lot, a little and not at all. Nielsen does not sample "radio listeners". It samples people. It tries to get a sample as close to matching the population on a whole bunch of metrics, but when the match is not perfect, they achieve balance by weighting.

So, if the 18-24 population is 7.6% of the market, then 7.6% of the diaries go to persons who are in that age group, irrespective of whether each person with a diary listens or not.

Nielsen has to try to match the population on age, gender, ethnicity, geography, income and education. When they don't get an exact match, they weigh individual respondents up or down in the category they are tabulating.

In Buddy's case, older people are better at filling in diaries and returning them, so often 55 and over gets weighted down while tough demos like 18-24 may be weighted up. Since Nielsen does not know how each weak has done, they do weighting "after the fact" when diaries come back in the mail.
I believe what he is saying is that if there aren’t as many people in that age group even listening to the radio, how can they waive them up to the overall metro population in the demo.
That is not the case as "listening to the radio" is not part of the recruit specification for ratings.
I don’t think he is saying that 20-40 year olds should be writing down WECK. If I’m hearing him correctly, I think he means that they shouldn’t make it look like there are more people in that age group listening to radio in the first place, and then to act like there are hurts other stations. I don’t know how he is doing his math and don’t understand it, but in concept he has a point.
That's not the case. In any event, among adults over age 18, there is not a lot of variation between weekly radio usage of 18-34, 18-49, 25-54 and so on. Where there is variation is the amount of listening, and that is most prevalent among 18-24's, which is not a common "buy" demo anyway.
Here in Canada, we have a similar way to measure audience, however it is done electronically, and it is much more transparent in terms of how they get about the number.
The larger markets license the PPM technology, and it licences it from Nielsen. The smaller ones use a method very similar to the Nielsen diary.

 
This is true. A station can be used as a spoiler, however anyone thinking that 107.7 will ever be a real player in this market is mistaken. The station was able to take a share as a sports station and as a rock station and previously as a country station. That makes sense, perhaps for Audacy, but I never understood it when it was privately owned. The strategy wouldn’t have been to take a share away from another station at the top. It presumably would’ve been to actually make money versus defend other stations. It was a stand alone as I recall.
There are several caveats here.

First, remember that over half of all US radio stations don't make a profit. Small ones may give a salary to the owner and a car trade, and bigger ones bounce from owner to owner or are kept "just in case" by big groups that neither want to sell to a competitor nor want to hurt their other stations. 1520 in Buffalo is a good example of one of these cases.

Second, one does not have to be #1 to make money. This is not the World Series or a boxing match. There can be 10, 20, 30 winners in a market. Looking at LA, I believe there are perhaps 50 profitable stations out of the 68 commercial stations in the market, and some of the "other" 18 are perhaps marginal but fit in a group or serve a purpose. Example: KLAA, the AM that is owned by the Angels team operator; the station may not make money directly but it is part of the team's promotional activities and is of value.

So in at least half of the cases in many markets, ratings don't matter. And being a success can come in many different ways.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom