The "Oldie" Debate

[TheBigA]

In radio, the term "oldie" usually applies to music from the 50s & 60s. But not everyone sees things that way. Users of Tik-Tok created a stir when the music made by the grunge band Nirvana was referred to as "oldies." If you're currently a teenager, 30 year old music might seem old. That debate is reported in this article:

Is Nirvana an 'oldie' band? A social media debate erupts

Commenters went ballistic after a TikTok user called Nirvana's 1991 song "Something in the Way" an "oldie."

www.nbcnews.com

 

[landtuna]

As I have opined before the term "Oldies" refers to a brand of music and not a chronological definition - just as "Standards" are a type of music and not limited to 1930ish-1955.

I consider "Oldies" to mean popular music roughly between the years 1956-1984 with exceptions. Sub-groups within this period could include Bebop, Protest Rock, Folk Rock, Disco (god help me), hair band rock and the like.

I do not include Grunge, Hip-Hop, Rap, Metal, Country or Jazz in any "Oldies" category. Anything past 1984 (with certain exceptions such as New Age) I consider junk and most often not even music. The Grammies and RnRHOF are illusions and, yes, have their fans. I am not one of them. The "Mistake on the Lake" hosts the ultimate musical joke.

It matters not to me what radio, record labels or its publications and surveys call music genres. The industry might need these definitions. Most people don't.

 

[TheBigA]

I do not include Grunge, Hip-Hop, Rap, Metal, Country or Jazz in any "Oldies" category.

But then again, you're not 21. If you were, perhaps you'd see it differently.

It matters not to me what radio, record labels or its publications and surveys call music genres. The industry might need these definitions. Most people don't.

This is not an industry discussion. This discussion is happening among people on Tik Tok.

 

[ZantennaG1]

It is, sadly, a byproduct of time marching forwards. Because of that, the definition of "oldies" is very subjective. Personally, I still like to think of "goldie" oldies as 1940's, 50's, and early 60's whilst music between 1965 and 1990 are Classic Hits (or regular "oldies") to me. However, some of these retro stations are starting to dive into the 1990's and even 2000's. It just disturbs me to no end. A weird thing to realize that 2022 is as far way from 1985 as 1948 is (37 years). 1948 had a much different style than 1985 did, and 2022 is radically different from 1985.

 

[Kelly A]

I consider "Oldies" to mean popular music roughly between the years 1956-1984 with exceptions. Sub-groups within this period could include Bebop, Protest Rock, Folk Rock, Disco (god help me), hair band rock and the like.

Due to the numbers of years elapsed, those era's could now be considered 'Standards'.

I do not include Grunge, Hip-Hop, Rap, Metal, Country or Jazz in any "Oldies" category. Anything past 1984 (with certain exceptions such as New Age) I consider junk and most often not even music. The Grammies and RnRHOF are illusions and, yes, have their fans. I am not one of them. The "Mistake on the Lake" hosts the ultimate musical joke.

Chances are your parents said the same about doo wop and music from names like Chuck Berry and Diana Ross. Now you are your parents.

 

[b-turner]

What I have found interesting is what might have been a bit too rocking for an Adult Contemporary in the 1970s is today considered easy listening. Almost as amusing was my Dad and I in the car perhaps 15 years ago. He's listening to his favorite station and is shocked I know all the songs. I explain to him this was the stuff I was playing when I started in radio...the very top 40 hits he complained made him nervous. About that time Night Moves by Bob Seger comes on. He remarks he really likes Bob Seger but that Night Moves is a rather sad song.

 

[michael hagerty]

We had this conversation about ten years ago. Landtuna has his opinion, but the fact is the word “oldie” to describe something from the past goes back to the 1870s (not a typo) and it’s been used fairly continuously in reference to music since the 1940s.

Art Laboe didn’t invent the term when he started playing a heavier mix of past hits on his KPOP show in 1957—-he just gave a common phrase, “It’s an oldie, but it’s a goodie”, a more concise label—“Oldies But Goodies”, which in his case, meant post -World War II “race records” up to and including records that had been on the chart a year before.

Before Bill Drake popularized the term “golden” for past hits (whether they’d gone gold or not), radio deejays and stations called any record no longer on the chart an “oldie”. In some cases, those records were only six months past their chart peak.

In the same way that “Top 40” and “Adult Contemporary” are not types of music, but descriptors of a format in which the music evolves over time, “Oldies” just isn’t a type of music.

In 1972, when the big oldies format boom began with WCBS-FM and K-EARTH, some guys born in 1900 could have said “Nope! Oldies are from the 30s and 40s”, denying Boomers the right to use the label. They’d have been wrong. It meant their music once. It meant our music once. Now it means our children and grandchildrens’.

 

[michael hagerty]

Due to the numbers of years elapsed, those era's could now be considered 'Standards'.

Minor point: “Standards”, while it became a format description, originally denoted songs that were so popular they transcended the performer—-“Night and Day”, “Stardust”, “Always”.

It was only tied to an era in that the majority of those songs were written in the 1920s, 30s and 40s, but later songs—“Moon River”, “Yesterday”—-fit the definition.

It really is an anachronism today, since most music is deeply identified with the artist that made it popular, and most of the people who’d be happy hearing a cover of, say, “Michelle” by an artist other than the Beatles are no longer with us.

 

[vchimpanzee]

Anything past 1984 (with certain exceptions such as New Age) I consider junk and most often not even music

I wouldn't even make an exception for New Age. And most music from 1979 through 1984 had a sound that shouldn't qualify as oldies because it doesn't fit with the older songs.

Some smooth jazz from the era is good.

Country started sounding good again after 1984, although it sounded good for the most part even before that. Then it went downhill when Garth came along, though some of his songs were good. Alan Jackson was one of the exceptions.

Also, Michael Buble, Harry Connick Jr. and Linda Ronstadt started recording standards after 1984.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I do not include Grunge, Hip-Hop, Rap, Metal, Country or Jazz in any "Oldies" category.

Country and jazz could qualify. Crossover country. Not pure jazz.

 

[vchimpanzee]

It is, sadly, a byproduct of time marching forwards. Because of that, the definition of "oldies" is very subjective. Personally, I still like to think of "goldie" oldies as 1940's, 50's, and early 60's whilst music between 1965 and 1990 are Classic Hits (or regular "oldies") to me.

That first group is standards, but there is a station in the Charlotte NC area which plays the late 50s and early 60s and calls it oldies, though a few of their songs are really standards.

 

[landtuna]

But then again, you're not 21. If you were, perhaps you'd see it differently.



This is not an industry discussion. This discussion is happening among people on Tik Tok.

If I was 21 I would likely be completely ignorant of pop music before 5 years ago. Thankfully, I grew up in a much more productive and inventive time.

And, I was not addressing the music industry. Merely making a comment that the definitions they created do not matter to most people.

 

[landtuna]

Country and jazz could qualify. Crossover country. Not pure jazz.

There were a few records that were members of Country and Jazz but got played on T-40 radio because people liked and wanted to hear them. Technically though they don't qualify as "Oldies" because they don't fit the framework, i.e., they don't sound anything like other Oldies of their time.

 

[TheBigA]

If I was 21 I would likely be completely ignorant of pop music before 5 years ago.

That's what this discussion is about. If you read the linked article, you'll understand.

Technically though they don't qualify as "Oldies" because they don't fit the framework

Because in the 70s those genres moved to their own formats. Same with some of the harder R&B music of the time.

So now you'll hear 60s country on classic country AMs, and the jazz from that era gets played on some public stations.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

If you ask most people today, regardless of age, they think of Oldies as music from the 50's and 60's. That's the oldest type of music of the modern era, since rock & roll music first became popular with the like of Chubby Checker, Elvis, etc..

Classics are newer than Oldies, so you have Classic Hits, Classic Rock, and Classic Alternative which is defined by the the pop-alternative bands of the '80s.

After that came Grunge which is not just the category that Nirvana fits into, but the one they helped define.

Language is funny, words can have more than one meaning. Nirvana can be both an 'oldie' in the sense that it's 30 years old, and not an Oldie in the way the musical genre is defined.

 

[michael hagerty]

If you ask most people today

...of a certain age. As the original post demonstrates, younger people are adopting the word.

As of last year, the largest generation by population in the U.S. was Millennials, who are now between 26 and 41 years old, at 73.2 million.

Next are Baby Boomers, 58-76 years old, at 70.4 million (and declining---roughly five thousand of us die every day).

Then comes Gen Z, ages 10-25, at 67.8 million.

Combined, there are almost twice as many people between the ages of 10 and 41 as there are Baby Boomers in the U.S. today.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

No, I don't think people in the millennial age category and below normally think of 90's music as Oldies genre. The article focuses on the incorrect usage of the term by one tik tok user and includes examples of the pushback it received from other tik tok users. Flawed as the article may be, it even concludes that Nirvana is not Oldies.

 

[Kelly A]

Some smooth jazz from the era is good.

It was neither smooth, nor jazz. What it was originally called was 'soft rock'. That label didn't play well either, because in surveys, people who liked rock, didn't like slow tempo or ballads. Those who liked slow tempo and ballads, didn't like it to be called rock.

 

[michael hagerty]

No, I don't think people in the millennial age category and below normally think of 90's music as Oldies genre. The article focuses on the incorrect usage of the term by one tik tok user and includes examples of the pushback it received from other tik tok users. Flawed as the article may be, it even concludes that Nirvana is not Oldies.

People in the millennial age category and below are unlikely to know there was an "oldies genre". That's tied to a radio format that pretty much was replaced by "classic hits" 17 years ago. The word is, quite naturally, returning to its historical roots for younger generations to use as it applies to them.

 

[davideduardo]

It was neither smooth, nor jazz. What it was originally called was 'soft rock'. That label didn't play well either, because in surveys, people who liked rock, didn't like slow tempo or ballads. Those who liked slow tempo and ballads, didn't like it to be called rock.

The format later called Smooth Jazz began as a new age format at The Wave in LA. As people tired of a Yanni cuts seemingly every 45 minutes along with tunes that included "wind chimes" in the credits, it moved to light jazz in the Kenny G and Dave Koz style.

Those of us who spent years playing Coleman and Coltrane and Dizzy and Brubeck did not see it as pure jazz, but it certainly had some roots... if any... in lighter "Sunday Brunch" jazz styles.