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KNWN audio question

T

Treehouse SWL

Wondering if anybody else has noticed this: When I'm driving around and clicking between preset stations on AM, the audio on KNWN 1000 seems noticeably quieter than on other local AM stations. For example, when I have the volume on at a normal setting for KVI, KIRO-AM, KTTH, KRKO, etc., I need to turn it up to comfortably hear KNWN.

This is most noticeable in my car, but it seems true with my Eton radio here at home as well. This doesn't seem to be a signal strength issue, as KTTH and KVI aren't always great as I drive through central Snohomish County in the morning hours, but the volume on their programming is fine.
 
Treehouse SWL said:
Wondering if anybody else has noticed this: When I'm driving around and clicking between preset stations on AM, the audio on KNWN 1000 seems noticeably quieter than on other local AM stations. For example, when I have the volume on at a normal setting for KVI, KIRO-AM, KTTH, KRKO, etc., I need to turn it up to comfortably hear KNWN.
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That's why they put that volume control on your vehicle entertainment center. (Otherwise known in the old days as a radio).
 
On AM modulation equals power. That is the reason AM music stations were always over compressed so they could be as close to 100% as possible. When a talk format is not as loud (lower modulation) as it should be, it is costing them power. Electrical interference will be more noticable and the fringe areas may lose a listenable signal.
 
notalent said:
You meant to say +125% but maybe you aren't an enginner
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Not every AM station employs or wants 125% positive peaks. Some transmitters of the hollow state kind can't even do that. And 125% on negative peaks causes carrier suppression, which means you loose the signal the modulation "sits on".
 
I was referring to the modern day status quo in the market (topic at hand) where most if not all of the AM transmitters are equipped with modern silicon filled amplification devices and do push the positive peaks as far as legally possible. Which was the case at AM 1000 but due to new ownership/engineers may no longer be true. Your point may have been true in the heyday of top40 on medium wave but still this is how the border blasters did it with hollow devices in the day... Asymmetrical modulation.
 
notalent said:
I was referring to the modern day status quo in the market (topic at hand) where most if not all of the AM transmitters are equipped with modern silicon filled amplification devices and do push the positive peaks as far as legally possible. Which was the case at AM 1000 but due to new ownership/engineers may no longer be true.
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1000kHz has a modern Nautel solid state transmitter that is easily capable of 100% negative, and 125% positive peaks if they choose to do so. Given KOMO is 50kW day and night, not doing a total of 60dB of compression and limiting may be a conscience effort to reduce needless listener audio fatigue caused by excessive audio processing.
 
They are also in the middle of getting new studios and changing STL paths, this could possibly effect the overall gain structure.

Could be they are using a backup path during the transition.
 
notalent said:
They are also in the middle of getting new studios and changing STL paths, this could possibly effect the overall gain structure.

Could be they are using a backup path during the transition.
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Sure, could be. In the meantime, end user intervention using the radio volume control is a sure shot solution.
 
The original creator of this thread hasn't appeared since, are they still noticing this? I had the station on last night and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. What I noticed last week was that during the TV news at 11, the audio was quieter during programming than commercials. They were having issues getting audio sources last night, as ABC kicked in at 11:00 as would be expected at every other hour, despite usually going to KOMO-TV. I'm guessing someone noticed and hit a button, as that cut off and went into the expected audio a couple minutes later, but no noticeable difference in volume last night. The signal was even halfway decent.
 
I was away from the thread for a couple days because I truly was interested in whether there might be a technical explanation, rather than a snarky comment about the volume knob.

But, yes, I too have noticed the audio level's been closer in recent days to other stations on the dial. Because of the way the memory buttons on my radio are set up, I often compare it most to KIRO-AM and KVI, and it's nearly at the same level now as KVI. KIRO-AM always seems louder than others, but I think that's because the sports guys tend to yell more.
 
Treehouse SWL said:
I was away from the thread for a couple days because I truly was interested in whether there might be a technical explanation, rather than a snarky comment about the volume knob.
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Wasn't the suggestion accurate?
Treehouse SWL said:
But, yes, I too have noticed the audio level's been closer in recent days to other stations on the dial. Because of the way the memory buttons on my radio are set up, I often compare it most to KIRO-AM and KVI, and it's nearly at the same level now as KVI. KIRO-AM always seems louder than others, but I think that's because the sports guys tend to yell more.
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Really? You place stations in a certain order of preset to compare relative loudness? Interesting hobby!
 
DavidEduardo said:
Not every AM station employs or wants 125% positive peaks. Some transmitters of the hollow state kind can't even do that. And 125% on negative peaks causes carrier suppression, which means you loose the signal the modulation "sits on".
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Of course there's no such thing as 125% negative. Carrier cutoff at negative 100% is as low as it gets. Used to be no limit on positive peaks, until about 50 years ago. The Frese Audio Pilot (until he modified it to meet the new regs) took advantage of that, a station could sound real loud except for the short life of the modulation transformer... it actually sounded good on voice, since voices are somewhat asymmetrical.
 
We now have KWLE 1340. Now the Quietest Station Anywhere. Almost Dead Carrier (you can hear some Punjabi talk, but not at anything close to KRPA 1110 modulation), It's been like this for a while.....
 
Bongwater said:
We now have KWLE 1340. Now the Quietest Station Anywhere. Almost Dead Carrier (you can hear some Punjabi talk, but not at anything close to KRPA 1110 modulation), It's been like this for a while.....
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Thank you for providing the link, KiwiSDR is simply awesome for how many controls it has, and how sensitive some of them can be.
 
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