April Ratings

[victorres43]

I think if a classic hits station does come to atlanta it will be very much like WRBQ and WXGL in tampa both identify as classic hits but there is a diffrence in playlist. One being pop leaning the other being rock leaning

Remember, Atlanta did not have a Mainstream CHR from 1992 to 1999. And when Z93 went in a Rhythmic direction for a brief time in the late 1980s, it was unsuccessful. And Star 94 and Q100 dominated the "mainstream hit music" market, the latter shifting towards Hot AC given that Jan Jeffries was fearful of the former's success. (95.5 The Beat, which was a regular Rhythmic CHR, marketed themselves as a hip hop station instead of a station playing "hit music" or the "hottest music". Despite The Beat doing well in the ratings, Q100 has barely kept them in mind during the late 2000s.)

So, it's not a stretch to say that Atlanta listeners aged 35-54 are less receptive towards rhythmic-oriented music, hence why The River is successful by not playing any pop or rhythmic-oriented music. It doesn't hurt The River that Atlanta, for the longest time, lacked a classic rock station. Atlanta is definitely different from New York and Miami, even though it's increasingly a transient town. In New York, WCBS-FM and WLTW (and sometimes WKTU) have beaten WAXQ in key demos. In Miami, WBGG is not on par with WFEZ, WLYF, maybe not even WMXJ.

 

[davideduardo]

. Adult Hits is essentially AC without the currents/recurrents, but mixed with Classic Rock and Alternative gold from the 1990s and 2000s.

Adult hits can lean more rock or less so depending on the market. The stations with consulting (rather than the program service) can be more rhythmic in some markets and more rock in others. But in all cases, the concept is "a mile wide and an inch deep" across several decades.

If you did a proper adult hits in Miami, you'd have more Donna Summer and less Fleetwood Mac. And, of course, K.C. and the Sunshine Band.

 

[davideduardo]

Well, after seeing so many of these stinking labels and badges, can one of you young pups explain the differenence between Adult Hits and Classic Hits ? Maybe give me a few artists and years to situate me better?

Adult hists is broader in the era... classic hits is CHR stuff from very late 70's to very early 90's in most cases. Jack and imitations will cover at least 3 decades if not more, and cover more genres or styles depending on the market. A classic hits station has a smaller library and faster rotations, while a Jack or Jack-off imitation will be deeper and have much slower rotations.

 

[CassChopper96]

Besides WCBS-FM and KEARTH are there really any classic hits stations that do that well in 25-54 and 18-49 and don't have a overwelmingly old audience. I think many classic hits stations are going through what WOGL in philadelphia is facing

 

[davideduardo]

Besides WCBS-FM and KEARTH are there really any classic hits stations that do that well in 25-54 and 18-49 and don't have a overwelmingly old audience. I think many classic hits stations are going through what WOGL in philadelphia is facing

There are plenty.

WWSW in Pittsburgh has an an average of over a 12 share in 25-54.

Others in large markets with big shares in 25-54:
KBPA Austin
WGRR Cincy
WJJK Indy
WJGL Jacksonville,
KCMO Ks City
KONO San Antonio
KOLA Riverside
KXKL Denver
WMMO IOrlando
WMJI Cleveland
WROR Boston
WARH St Louis
WOMC Detroit
KODJ Salt Lake

And those are just the ones with over a 6 share that self-identify as classic hits.

And this list does not even include CBS-FM and KRTH, becasue they are in vvery competitive markets and only have around a 5 share in that demo.

 

[CassChopper96]

There are plenty.

WWSW in Pittsburgh has an an average of over a 12 share in 25-54.

Others in large markets with big shares in 25-54:
KBPA Austin
WGRR Cincy
WJJK Indy
WJGL Jacksonville,
KCMO Ks City
KONO San Antonio
KOLA Riverside
KXKL Denver
WMMO IOrlando
WMJI Cleveland
WROR Boston
WARH St Louis
WOMC Detroit
KODJ Salt Lake

And those are just the ones with over a 6 share that self-identify as classic hits.

And this list does not even include CBS-FM and KRTH, becasue they are in vvery competitive markets and only have around a 5 share in that demo.

KLOU is the classic hits station in St.louis WARH is adult hits. But i get your point.

 

[davideduardo]

KLOU is the classic hits station in St.louis WARH is adult hits. But i get your point.

However, they have registered as Classic Hits with Nielsen. That is my source.

 

[101tm]

If they get one, it will sound just like the River, with lots of classic rock.

Because that's what a lot of classic hits stations are becoming.

There's a reason why The River does what it does.

You’re right - honestly, The River and its sister station 96.9 The Eagle in Jacksonville aren’t that different than some of the classic hits stations owned by Audacy at all. Sure, there isn’t the occasional Prince or Michael Jackson song, but The River was ahead of its time. More stations are sounding like it.

The River plays a lot more music from the 70s than the other classic hits stations. Many of those have moved well in to the 90s.

 

[CTListener]

However, they have registered as Classic Hits with Nielsen. That is my source.

Noon hour on WARH:
How Will I Know -- Whitney Houston
Come As You Are -- Nirvana
Man in the Mirror -- Michael Jackson
Party in the USA -- Miley Cyrus
That's All -- Genesis
Blinded by the Light -- Manfred Mann's Earth Band
1999 -- Prince
She Talks to Angels -- Black Crowes
Take It on the Run -- REO Speedwagon
Firework -- Katy Perry
You Might Think -- Cars
Learn to Fly -- Foo Fighters

That sure looks like a typical "mile wide, inch deep" adult hits playlist to me, no matter what WARH wants to tell Nielsen it is.

 

[victorres43]

You’re right - honestly, The River and its sister station 96.9 The Eagle in Jacksonville aren’t that different than some of the classic hits stations owned by Audacy at all. Sure, there isn’t the occasional Prince or Michael Jackson song, but The River was ahead of its time. More stations are sounding like it.

The River plays a lot more music from the 70s than the other classic hits stations. Many of those have moved well in to the 90s.

Didn't many "Classic Hits" stations in the 90s/00s lean toward classic rock anyway, before the 80s were the core on many former oldies stations? Think the Arrow stations (KCBS-FM/Los Angeles, KKRW/Houston) and the like.

And many classic rock stations such as WAXQ and WBIG sound just like WSRV. WAXQ is playing tracks such as (Don't You) Forget About Me and You Can Call Me Al.

 

[101tm]

Didn't many "Classic Hits" stations in the 90s/00s lean toward classic rock anyway, before the 80s were the core on many former oldies stations? Think the Arrow stations (KCBS-FM/Los Angeles, KKRW/Houston) and the like.

And many classic rock stations such as WAXQ and WBIG sound just like WSRV. WAXQ is playing tracks such as (Don't You) Forget About Me and You Can Call Me Al.

Yeah, “classic hits” emerged mostly in the early 2000s and became more popular for, at the time, Cox’s River/Eagle stations, WROR/Boston, etc. After the 2005 purge of so many 60s based “oldies” stations that couldn’t evolve properly and went away in so markets, when the former started coming back post-PPM launch the format changed to “classic hits” - essentially The River, but with a focus on late 60s-early 80s pop and rock and it just became the industry term for what was once the oldies format. Some stations just gradually evolved successfully and went from oldies to classic hits. But yes the original format The River had was what was initially classic hits, an AOR presentation that omitted a lot of “hard” 70s and 80s rock.

I’ve noticed (Don’t You) Forget About Me on classic rock a lot recently. Perhaps they’re moving in to more new wave?

 

[davideduardo]

Yeah, “classic hits” emerged mostly in the early 2000s

The term "classic hits" was adopted by stations that played newer oldies when it became evident that traditional oldies format that were 60's based no longer delivered the 25-54 audiences that agencies looked for. So stations that eliminated, gradually or dramatically, the 60's and early 70's felt they had to put a new label on their approach so they would not be tainted by agency buyer beliefs that "oldies" meant "seniors".

Arbitron had a process for adding a new format name for their service, and it involves a certain number of stations and a certain number of owners and markets that all agree on a suggested new term. I spearheaded the adoption of "Spanish Adult Hits" around 2005 and we got agreement by several other ownership groups and had enough stations in the format to get Arbitron to add a new format name.

Similarly, it took a while for the "Jack" and imitation format to originally be called "Adult Hits"... prior to that many classified themselves as oldies, in fact.

These are just names used mostly for sales.

and became more popular for, at the time, Cox’s River/Eagle stations, WROR/Boston, etc. After the 2005 purge of so many 60s based “oldies” stations that couldn’t evolve properly and went away in so markets, when the former started coming back post-PPM launch the format changed to “classic hits” - essentially The River, but with a focus on late 60s-early 80s pop and rock and it just became the industry term for what was once the oldies format.

The term "classic hits" had nothing to do with the introduction of the PPM which did not broadly occur until 2008/2009. The evolution of "oldies" into "classic hits" had to do with the aging of audiences in diary markets and the need to update stagnant libraries.

Many stations that had identified as "oldies" but which had few 60's songs left in the library just changed their Arbitron designation from one name to another.

And, depending on the market, classic hits stations were more rock or more pop or more of a balanced blend. It all depended on each individual station's market, its competitors and the resulting research target for music and perceptual testing.

Some stations just gradually evolved successfully and went from oldies to classic hits. But yes the original format The River had was what was initially classic hits, an AOR presentation that omitted a lot of “hard” 70s and 80s rock.

Those "oldies" stations with significant audiences... like CBS-FM and KRTH... did research and evolved to catch up or keep up with and under-55 target's preferences and that was all based on finding which specific songs that group´wanted. There was no predisposition to lean towards rock or towards pop or any other style. Each market's research determined the composition of its libraries.

I’ve noticed (Don’t You) Forget About Me on classic rock a lot recently. Perhaps they’re moving in to more new wave?

Or maybe that song crosses over the arbitrary classifications of music types we are engaging in here.

 

[gr8oldies]

Adult hists is broader in the era... classic hits is CHR stuff from very late 70's to very early 90's in most cases. Jack and imitations will cover at least 3 decades if not more, and cover more genres or styles depending on the market. A classic hits station has a smaller library and faster rotations, while a Jack or Jack-off imitation will be deeper and have much slower rotations.

I see what you did there

 

[Bill Zurmuehl]

Alternative would be smart

Cumulus has 99x (98.9) already.

 

[101tm]

The term "classic hits" had nothing to do with the introduction of the PPM which did not broadly occur until 2008/2009. The evolution of "oldies" into "classic hits" had to do with the aging of audiences in diary markets and the need to update stagnant libraries.

My bad, I was referring to the renewed interest in the format around 2007-2008 (after it was detected how well it did in Philadelphia); many classic hits stations either went back to the format if they had dropped “oldies” since 2005 or so or other stations flipped to classic hits. By 2008, there weren’t many self-reporting “oldies” stations left, much less in larger markets.

Those "oldies" stations with significant audiences... like CBS-FM and KRTH... did research and evolved to catch up or keep up with and under-55 target's preferences and that was all based on finding which specific songs that group´wanted. There was no predisposition to lean towards rock or towards pop or any other style. Each market's research determined the composition of its libraries.

CBS-FM came back on the air in 2007 evolved from what it was in 2005, but KRTH kept the same formula in to the early 2010s and still did well 25-54 and overall with a much older lean. KRTH played “catch up” dropping the 60s and moving further in to the 80s because it was a much faster shift around 2014-2015.

I think the time has passed for Atlanta to have a classic hits station. With the format increasingly having to forge in to the 90s and 00s, it may not do as well as the early-mid 80s centric approach has done…and we are seeing markets where the format is struggling.

If anyone launched a classic hits station, it would be very similar to 97.1 but would probably lean newer. It’s going to be rock heavy. At this point, I think adult hits would be the best choice if anyone ever changes to a gold based format.

 

[davideduardo]

My bad, I was referring to the renewed interest in the format around 2007-2008 (after it was detected how well it did in Philadelphia); many classic hits stations either went back to the format if they had dropped “oldies” since 2005 or so or other stations flipped to classic hits. By 2008, there weren’t many self-reporting “oldies” stations left, much less in larger markets.

Remember, Philly was the first roll-out test market for the PPM, starting around 2002. Not all stations encoded, but the CBS folks got a strong enough read about what would be "classic hits" that they yanked Jack from ABC-FM and put a new classic hits format there in anticipation of the eventual arrival of the PPM in NYC.

CBS-FM came back on the air in 2007 evolved from what it was in 2005, but KRTH kept the same formula in to the early 2010s and still did well 25-54 and overall with a much older lean.

Different demos. The LA station had a huge talent repertoire that was bigger than the music. But as those famous announcers retired or passed away, they had to change too.

KRTH played “catch up” dropping the 60s and moving further in to the 80s because it was a much faster shift around 2014-2015.

But, as I said, for a different reason... the talent. And, of course, the move of LA to being nearly 50% Hispanic.

 

[acheron1982]

Cumulus has 99x (98.9) already.

Would it make any sense to put it on a bigger signal like 100.5? Not sure how well it would perform though. Alternative is in such a slump right now (but so is active rock).

 

[101tm]

Different demos. The LA station had a huge talent repertoire that was bigger than the music. But as those famous announcers retired or passed away, they had to change too.

KRTH went through a bit of a talent purge when they started dropping the 60s entirely and moved in to the 70s and 80s only. While there was some top notch talent there like Charlie Tuna and Shotgun, their style simply became too out of touch with the music they were playing, and said style was associated with 60s oldies. WOGL had a somewhat similar issue, with a number of high profile long time DJ’s that have departed over the last decade. CBS-FM seems to have done the best job of keeping the on air personalities relevant to the audience over time (I guess their 2005 flip helped clean house of a lot of jocks that were no longer a fit for an updated version of the station).

Would it make any sense to put it on a bigger signal like 100.5? Not sure how well it would perform though. Alternative is in such a slump right now (but so is active rock).

If anything, Cumulus should try to move away from a rock format on 100.5 entirely and start with a clean slate. If they were going to move a translator to a higher powered FM, I’d suggest OG 97.9.

 

[RoddyFreeman]

The term "classic hits" was adopted by stations that played newer oldies when it became evident that traditional oldies format that were 60's based no longer delivered the 25-54 audiences that agencies looked for. So stations that eliminated, gradually or dramatically, the 60's and early 70's felt they had to put a new label on their approach so they would not be tainted by agency buyer beliefs that "oldies" meant "seniors".

David, that's all true. But The River debuted prior to when former oldies stations started calling themselves classic hits. With The River, the classic hits positioner was intended to mean, "We play older rock-oriented music without the hard stuff." And it was in effect a rock 40 from previous decades. Over the years, The River evolved into a classic rock station, but they owned the classic hits positioning and still continue to use it. But they also air sweepers about Georgia's largest classic rock library.

 

[TheBigA]

But they also air sweepers about Georgia's largest classic rock library.

I call that "squatting." That way they keep out competition in two formats. Some country stations do that too.