Okay then, consider your words eaten. You seem to be hung up on certain artists or titles, like it's some sort of radio death sentence if aired. It's not. Besides, as stated here more than once; most new music is being launched from on-line sources, not radio anymore.
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Entercom's alternative experiment not a success?
- Thread starter tall_guy1
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So, I'm listening to the Audacy top 100 alternative rock songs of the 1900s (their title, not mine) countdown on Fault 98.7 in Detroit.
I guess no one could figure out to use "20th century" in lieu of "1900s."
Anyway, these dum-dums ranked "Black Hole Sun" by Soundgarden, an iconic song for the format, at #72. "Take a Picture" by Filter was ranked higher.
With music judgment like THAT, it is no wonder so many of Audacy's alternative stations are ratings dumpster fires.
I guess no one could figure out to use "20th century" in lieu of "1900s."
Anyway, these dum-dums ranked "Black Hole Sun" by Soundgarden, an iconic song for the format, at #72. "Take a Picture" by Filter was ranked higher.
With music judgment like THAT, it is no wonder so many of Audacy's alternative stations are ratings dumpster fires.
You're assuming they're basing their chart on personal music judgement.
And, most likely, that is where the song ranked now, 2022, when listeners were played a snipped and asked, "how much would you like to hear that song on the radio today?"
I strongly doubt that much (if any) audience research was put into this project specifically.
BigA - you are correct; that is indeed what I'm assuming. It's certainly not the only criterion considered, but I suspect it is one of the criteria considered. It was the no. 1 modern rock song in 1994, despite peaking at no. 2 on the weekly modern rock chart. It spent 7 weeks at number 1 on the mainstream rock chart.
Given how many important modern rock albums (and successful singles) were released in 1994, possession of the #1 Billboard rated modern rock song in that year should translate to much higher than a #72 ranking on a countdown focused on modern rock songs from the 20th century.
BigA - you are correct; that is indeed what I'm assuming. It's certainly not the only criterion considered, but I suspect it is one of the criteria considered. It was the no. 1 modern rock song in 1994, despite peaking at no. 2 on the weekly modern rock chart. It spent 7 weeks at number 1 on the mainstream rock chart.
Given how many important modern rock albums (and successful singles) were released in 1994, possession of the #1 Billboard rated modern rock song in that year should translate to much higher than a #72 ranking on a countdown focused on modern rock songs from the 20th century.
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As David Letterman used to say: This is not a competition. No wagering.
This is not meant to be some kind of accurate list, it's simply a holiday weekend feature. Give them credit for breaking format and presenting the music in a different way. To be honest, some of these lists are simply put together in a computer, not with the input of listeners or musicologists.
Are the people who win Grammy awards the absolute best, with the absolute best music? Probably not. They're just the ones who won.
MarkW: Just curious, and I hope you take no offense, but do you or have you ever worked in commercial radio? Your opinions are always strongly worded and appear to reflect an absolutist vision of what artists and songs suit alt formats and which don't, as well as how radio programmers and executives think. Where does your certainty come from?
Right. It should be "Hey Man Nice Shot".
It used to be worse. When WNYL did their ranking of the top 90's songs (right before the Audacy consolidation), "Black Hole Sun" was placed at #99.
It is rather usual for songs that were "the biggest" when they were currents to score lower in gold library tests. And may mid-level hits seem to come up with better endurance after the years go by.
Of course, many stations scramble "all time hit lists" so that competitors don't get a free music test.
I always chuckle when I hear sports stations come up with their "GOAT" lists, and almost all of the athletes are recent names we all know, ignoring the heritage names from 40 or more years ago. We're all biased by our own experience. I think these lists are examples of that. They give us something to talk about, but that's about it.
That's a good analogy, BigA. I agree.
No offense taken.
To answer CT's questions:
- I've never worked in commercial radio.
- I think the artists and songs that "suit" the alternative format are (or at least should be) market dependent. What works in Portland, OR or Denver, CO likely does not work in Detroit, MI. MTV served as a great tastemaker for the format in the 90's. One reason - perhaps the largest reason - "Black Hole Sun" was so popular in 1994 is because of the iconic video. I'm not sure such a bridging/influencing force in musical tastes, especially for the alternative format, exists today.
- My opinionated nature is just how I'm wired mentally.
No offense taken.
To answer CT's questions:
- I've never worked in commercial radio.
- I think the artists and songs that "suit" the alternative format are (or at least should be) market dependent. What works in Portland, OR or Denver, CO likely does not work in Detroit, MI. MTV served as a great tastemaker for the format in the 90's. One reason - perhaps the largest reason - "Black Hole Sun" was so popular in 1994 is because of the iconic video. I'm not sure such a bridging/influencing force in musical tastes, especially for the alternative format, exists today.
- My opinionated nature is just how I'm wired mentally.
About once a year, my local sports talker in Cleveland will do a “Mount Rushmore of Cleveland Sports” segment, and it’s always the opposite of what you’re describing. With the exception of LeBron, it’s always athletes that my father doesn’t remember watching. And the jocks who do the segment seem to be around my age (upper end of the 18-34 demo). Of course, not a lot of sports luck here, lol
I do wonder if Alternative is heading for a reckoning with the overall pop experiment. It wasn't just Audacy that did it; other stations tried it to varying extents, and it didn't work for them either.
I've read two write-ups of the situation here and I'm curious what you all think. If this writer is right; Alt is in need of big changes and the programmers may be about to implement them.
Alternative is about to have its "Hair Band" moment.
Alternative fares poorly in 2022 Jacobs Media tech survey.
I've read two write-ups of the situation here and I'm curious what you all think. If this writer is right; Alt is in need of big changes and the programmers may be about to implement them.
Alternative is about to have its "Hair Band" moment.
Alternative fares poorly in 2022 Jacobs Media tech survey.
The writer's conclusion that radio destroyed Alt due to appealing to shorter listening span duration is based on a totally incorrect analysis.
The PPM showed that people who put down "9 AM to Noon" in the diary actually did not listen for 3 hours. They listened in five or 6 15 minute bits during that three hour window, but did not detail the listening in the diary. They listened for multiple short periods because people don't stay glued to the radio for hours. The go and do things. They get coffee, they go and pee, they walk to a different part of the workplace, they take kids to the bus stop and so on.
So programmers were not mistakenly trying to appeal to minimal listening time users. They were trying to play a big hit each time the person came back to the radio. But in many cases, programmers misunderstood the bits and pieces way listeners consumed radio. Programmers had to understand that if a listener came back after doing something, they did not want to hear the same song they heard the last time.
The biggest error was in thinking that listening habits had changed. They had not. Measurement had changed, and was far more granular.
Realizing this, I reduced repetitions on the powers in a gold based format that I managed in 5 of the top 10 markets as well as others.... TSL increased. And Arbitron early on use our San Francisco station in its seminars to show that a well-programmed station might get 12 to 15 separate incidents in a single workday but if the station was correctly programmed, they kept with the same station all day.
The Jacobs Media analysis which blames streaming for lower usage and loyalty is also wrong. The problem with alt as anyone who has done music tests in the genre knows is that Alt is not unified with song commonality. There are incompatible song subsets, and stations that try to please all of the listener groups end up playing a song one of the groups hates a third of the time!
Weatherly's first two weeks as format captain have been... eventful in terms of new song adds.
The conglomerate during Weatherly's first week in charge brought in format staple Panic! At The Disco's new song "Viva Las Vengeance" and put Audacy at the forefront of the Kate Bush revival.
The second week has Weatherly's mark all over it. Maggie Rogers (a rising AAA star who Capitol Records has a lot of stock in, her song is "Want Want"), Jimmy Eat World (now an unsigned/self-releasing artist, their new song is "Something Loud"), Phoenix (with lead single "Alpha Zulu", they're signed to indie label Glassnote), and Sam Fender (whose "Seventeen Going Under" went viral on TikTok at the beginning of the year and continues to have strong streaming numbers). Palaye Royale, a glam-rock/art-rock fusion band out of Las Vegas, may also be seeing their second single "Broken" getting added by the conglomerate but it's unclear for now.
Audacy was already doing this approach with John Allers and Christy Taylor, but with a more conservative pacing. Weatherly at the controls has made this is the most aggressive Audacy's been for a long time. I like the plan of mixing veteran voices with newer ones, including artists who haven't had widespread play on Alternative before. It definitely feels like Weatherly is bringing purpose and a vision back to Audacy Alternative, the only question is whether it'll work.
The conglomerate during Weatherly's first week in charge brought in format staple Panic! At The Disco's new song "Viva Las Vengeance" and put Audacy at the forefront of the Kate Bush revival.
The second week has Weatherly's mark all over it. Maggie Rogers (a rising AAA star who Capitol Records has a lot of stock in, her song is "Want Want"), Jimmy Eat World (now an unsigned/self-releasing artist, their new song is "Something Loud"), Phoenix (with lead single "Alpha Zulu", they're signed to indie label Glassnote), and Sam Fender (whose "Seventeen Going Under" went viral on TikTok at the beginning of the year and continues to have strong streaming numbers). Palaye Royale, a glam-rock/art-rock fusion band out of Las Vegas, may also be seeing their second single "Broken" getting added by the conglomerate but it's unclear for now.
Audacy was already doing this approach with John Allers and Christy Taylor, but with a more conservative pacing. Weatherly at the controls has made this is the most aggressive Audacy's been for a long time. I like the plan of mixing veteran voices with newer ones, including artists who haven't had widespread play on Alternative before. It definitely feels like Weatherly is bringing purpose and a vision back to Audacy Alternative, the only question is whether it'll work.
Alt 92.3 in NY sounds a lot better than it did back in 2020. Its ratings are tanking.
I'm not aware that he's "format captain." He's a VP for the format, but there are several others with that same title, so he's part of a team:
Counterpoint; it’s ratings were bad back in 2020 as well. WNYL’s ratings have been bad with short periods of mediocrity since 2019, truthfully.
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