WCBS #1 18-34

[Theater of My Mind]

According the the Research Director's June PPM numbers breakdown for New York published by AllAccess, WCBS-FM ranks number one in the 18-34 demo by more than a share. Since the median release date of a song on CBS-FM seems to be early-to-mid 80s, what's the explanation for this? It seems to me that it must come from one of these things:

1. 18-34-year-olds are infatuated with 40-year-old songs and are clamoring to hear them on the classic hits radio station, and/or
   
   
2. Most 18-34 year-olds don't listen to FM radio at all any more so the numbers in that demo are dominated by incidental listening, where the PPM meters picked up radio stations that were being played by older people nearby.

I know which explanation I'm leaning towards but would anyone care to share some insight?

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[101tm]

I feel like both are somewhat true. On number one, they’re clamoring to hear a lot of 70s and 80s rock that has incredible staying power, but I doubt the first choice is FM radio.

 

[Tibbs4]

The first few days of rating releases this time around are very interesting. I am sure “there is nothing too it,” but old junk is kinda cool on the
radio dial right now. Many older songs are being blanketed through advertising and shows, so I think some of this is interest in the music from 18-34. But, the real interesting info would be just how much listening is really packed into the demographics that radio says don’t matter because buyers ain’t buying air time. Too me, that is the exact (yes, fleeting) demo and the music matches this demo that are easiest to target. Meanwhile, I worry that the FM radio dial, as a combined group, by market, is trying too hard to be hip and cool for the audience that barely sees radio as anything more important than litter along a highway. They notice it. They register it. But they keep driving on. I also think CBS-FM is doing many things right. Personality-driven 24/7. Reasonable stop sets and then get back into the music and reason the station exists. Reasonably smart and decent size play list. Let’s see what happens to this bubble.

Not sure I answered a damn thing you ask. But, I await correction from ... By the way, BigA. I have not thought about this, is Country still driving “those” important demographics like it was a year or two ago? I need to research that. Not been focusing on that in a while.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

On number one, they’re clamoring to hear a lot of 70s and 80s rock that has incredible staying power

By that logic, the 35-54 year-olds that WCBS targets should be clamoring to hear a lot of 50s and 60s rock that has incredible staying power...from timeless artists like Elvis and The Beatles. We know that isn't true and doesn't happen. CBS FM doesn't play one song by The Beatles any more, and zero pre-1970s music.

All the research and testing shows people don't want to hear songs that were hits before they were born. So that would seem to leave point #2 as the most likely explanation.

 

[CTListener]

The first few days of rating releases this time around are very interesting. I am sure “there is nothing too it,” but old junk is kinda cool on the
radio dial right now. Many older songs are being blanketed through advertising and shows, so I think some of this is interest in the music from 18-34. But, the real interesting info would be just how much listening is really packed into the demographics that radio says don’t matter because buyers ain’t buying air time. Too me, that is the exact (yes, fleeting) demo and the music matches this demo that are easiest to target. Meanwhile, I worry that the FM radio dial, as a combined group, by market, is trying too hard to be hip and cool for the audience that barely sees radio as anything more important than litter along a highway. They notice it. They register it. But they keep driving on. I also think CBS-FM is doing many things right. Personality-driven 24/7. Reasonable stop sets and then get back into the music and reason the station exists. Reasonably smart and decent size play list. Let’s see what happens to this bubble.

Not sure I answered a damn thing you ask. But, I await correction from ... By the way, BigA. I have not thought about this, is Country still driving “those” important demographics like it was a year or two ago? I need to research that. Not been focusing on that in a while.

Country isn't doing as well overall as it was last year, but still, if I wanted to reach 18-34, especially women, I'd definitely advertise on a country station rather than a classic hits station -- that is, if country is an option, which it currently isn't on New York radio. In New York, CHR or some flavor of urban is probably a better choice than classic hits, I would imagine.

 

[davideduardo]

According the the Research Director's June PPM numbers breakdown for New York published by AllAccess, WCBS-FM ranks number one in the 18-34 demo by more than a share. Since the median release date of a song on CBS-FM seems to be early-to-mid 80s, what's the explanation for this? It seems to me that it must come from one of these things:

1. 18-34-year-olds are infatuated with 40-year-old songs and are clamoring to hear them on the classic hits radio station, and/or

Over 75% of 18-34's in NYC listen to radio every week per the June book. Average TSL is 5 hours and 31 minutes.

1. Most 18-34 year-olds don't listen to FM radio at all any more so the numbers in that demo are dominated by incidental listening, where the PPM meters picked up radio stations that were being played by older people nearby.

The TSL is too long for it to be incidental. It could of course be workplace listening controlled by older people, but that is still listening.

Overall listening in NYC has always been lower than any other market due to the extensive use of public transportation. This is part of the explanation for LA outbilling NYC significantly in total radio revenues.

 

[davideduardo]

In New York, CHR or some flavor of urban is probably a better choice than classic hits, I would imagine.

Or one of the Spanish language contemporary stations which, together reach about 20% of all 18-34 persons in the market.

 

[TheBigA]

By the way, BigA. I have not thought about this, is Country still driving “those” important demographics like it was a year or two ago? I need to research that. Not been focusing on that in a while.

It's not as young or as large as it used to be. There's a trend right now to incorporate a lot of 90s country references in songs. Even Tim McGraw is quoting his own 90s hits.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

Over 75% of 18-34's in NYC listen to radio every week per the June book. Average TSL is 5 hours and 31 minutes.

But the fact that the classic hits radio station leads the demo by more than a share seems to indicate that maybe it's not because they want to. Someone else is probably choosing the station for them most of the time.

If the millennial-heavy 18-34 year-old demo were proactively using radio then the CHR station should rate much higher than classic hits. The numbers seem to indicate they just don't spend enough time using radio on their own to put the CHR format at the top in their own demo, though. They primarily absorb it from the workplace, their parents' tuning at home or other places like that where the radio is being used by someone much older.

If that's true and the younger listeners aren't building their own radio listening habits today, who's going to be listening 10-15-20 years from now?

 

[fordranger797]

What is old is now new in many ways. From a completely subjective standpoint, I think that the CHR format is incredibly weak right now. Many of the songs sound very similar, which may just be the result of the current trend in popular music.

 

[boombox4]

There was a RIAA survey I saw on music preferences and consumption by demographics, and classic rock was amazingly high in the younger demos. So there's that.

 

[dcowboy7]

It's not as young or as large as it used to be. There's a trend right now to incorporate a lot of 90s country references in songs. Even Tim McGraw is quoting his own 90s hits.

"where the green grass grows".

What is old is now new in many ways. From a completely subjective standpoint, I think that the CHR format is incredibly weak right now. Many of the songs sound very similar, which may just be the result of the current trend in popular music.

Yea songs are hanging on forever "heat waves" & "stay" just went recurrent after like 52 wks in the top 40.
This wk 0 songs went top 10 & only 1 debuted top 40 & even that was with negative spins & its summer for cryin out loud !!
The churn & 80s variety was great you could go from ac/dc to prince to lee ritenour to the police to donna summer to kenny rogers.
The problem for me with WCBS is the audio is just hideous compared to other stations like Z100 & KTU so i rather listen to AMZN Unlimited or my own playlist for my 80s fix.

 

[victorres43]

There was a RIAA survey I saw on music preferences and consumption by demographics, and classic rock was amazingly high in the younger demos. So there's that.

Of course, WAXQ has to play more pop rock to be viable in the NYC market and be competitive with WCBS-FM, which itself doesn't have a classic rock bias, unlike many other classic hits stations.

 

[CTListener]

"where the green grass grows".

In Jimmie Allen's current hit, "Down Home," a sentimental song about Allen's late father and his roots in Delaware, Jimmie sings about climbing in his F-150 and "bumpin' Charley Pride" as his father used to do. How many 18-34 females even know who Pride was? Hailey Whitters, in "Everything She Ain't," sings that she wants to be "the whiskey in your soda / the lime in your Corona / shotgun in your Tacoma / the Audrey to your Hank." Maybe they'd get that Hank refers to Hank Williams, but you've got to be really old or really deep into country music history to know anything about his wife, Audrey.

So what's going on here? It seemed that country music had tapped into a rich lode of new fans in a demo that had never much cared for the genre. But now, Nashville is pushing songs that mention performers and songs that wouldn't register with that very demo. Are they trying to have it both ways -- reach out to the older, traditional country listeners while simultaneously holding on to the new fans attracted over the past few years?

 

[TheBigA]

But now, Nashville is pushing songs that mention performers and songs that wouldn't register with that very demo.

The words don't matter. You ask the typical redneck who the "Neil" is in Sweet Home Alabama, and he'll give you a blank look.

There's a lot of image and marketing going on. Jason Aldean had a hit 15 years ago with a song called Johnny Cash. People wear Johnny Cash t-shirts. But they can't name five Johnny Cash song titles.

 

[CTListener]

The words don't matter. You ask the typical redneck who the "Neil" is in Sweet Home Alabama, and he'll give you a blank look.

Probably couldn't name "the governor" they loved in Birmingham either, although if you told him about George Wallace, he probably say "That's my kind of politician."

 

[TheBigA]

If that's true and the younger listeners aren't building their own radio listening habits today, who's going to be listening 10-15-20 years from now?

How did you build your cell phone habit? Did you have one as a child? No. So it doesn't matter. People don't think that way. If there's something they want on the radio, they listen. If not, they look somewhere else. People do things because they do them, not always because of habit. You can't expect an 18-34's use of radio to be the same as yours, because too much of the experience has changed over time.

Same with music. The 18-34 isn't hung up on stuff. They don't have a record collection. But they love songs. What makes WCBS relatable to an 18-34 isn't the reliving old memories, because there aren't any. They're listening to these songs as though they're new, and the presentation on the station doesn't alter that. Don't get hung up on the release year of a song. That doesn't matter. What matters is how it sounds now.

 

[Tibbs4]

I would believe, BigA, that CBS-FM would not mention ages of artists or years of songs so the 18-34’s would being listening because they want to listen to the music as if it’s “their music” vs old peoplez music. I have no time these daze to study the station like I normally would before I speak. I have to think Broadway is listenable to 18-34 and not the antique some people in their 40s and 50s claim. What is the number of songs on CBS-FM’s playlist and do they rotate artists and titles in and out to give the music some rest? I think those last two items may help. I also don’t disagree with 18-34s listening at work vs listening to what they would prefer to listen to at work. Home is an interesting comment. I have always wondered how much that matters and for how many years in to the 20s and 30s. Still shows ya just how the ratings can be so tender when it comes to exacts to help or hurt stations.

 

[TheBigA]

I would believe, BigA, that CBS-FM would not mention ages of artists or years of songs so the 18-34’s would being listening because they want to listen to the music as if it’s “their music” vs old peoplez music.

Exactly. Four years ago, Lynyrd Skynyrd launched something they called their "Street Survivors Farewell Tour." After covid, the word "farewell" disappeared. Same with The Eagles. They aren't going away. They know there's money on the table.

 

[boombox4]

In Jimmie Allen's current hit, "Down Home," a sentimental song about Allen's late father and his roots in Delaware, Jimmie sings about climbing in his F-150 and "bumpin' Charley Pride" as his father used to do. How many 18-34 females even know who Pride was? Hailey Whitters, in "Everything She Ain't," sings that she wants to be "the whiskey in your soda / the lime in your Corona / shotgun in your Tacoma / the Audrey to your Hank." Maybe they'd get that Hank refers to Hank Williams, but you've got to be really old or really deep into country music history to know anything about his wife, Audrey.

So what's going on here? It seemed that country music had tapped into a rich lode of new fans in a demo that had never much cared for the genre. But now, Nashville is pushing songs that mention performers and songs that wouldn't register with that very demo. Are they trying to have it both ways -- reach out to the older, traditional country listeners while simultaneously holding on to the new fans attracted over the past few years?

They're selling a mythos. The reference to Hank and Johnny Cash and probably George Jones is all imagery. Not everyone in the 90s who heard country songs referring to these three artists probably had CDs of those artists in their collections. Some of the blues rockers in the late 60s / early 70s dropped references to blues artists their fans probably didn't have in the LP collections.

It's just name dropping, to add to the 'cool' atmosphere of the song. Kind of like the country videos always having a farm, a front porch, and a barn, a rusty old F150 truck, and horses. How many country fans have even been on a farm? Even 50%? Doubtful.